Ag industry revival in Australia?
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Ag industry revival in Australia?
I posted a similar question on dunnunder GA forum, thinking I might get a few more replies there as this forums seems nearly all bizjet traffic. It was suggested I post here so here goes.
I am at the beginning of my CPL career being older than most new pilots starting (33) and I am not too interested in a career in the airlines. As such I am looking for employment in an area of GA the provides a decent income as well as flying that is more hands on than most other types (as well as a basing in country areas. As such I have been starting to investigate Ag flying as a career.
My first group of questions are: is the Ag industry starting to turn around in Australia with the rain? Do those in or around the industry expect a return to something like it was about ten years ago before this drought really hit? Or is it a case of even if the rains continue and we get some good crops for a number of years?
My second group of questions are, if the industry does take off again (sorry for the pun ), will it just be a case of those relatively experienced guys who have left return and thus there will be very few openings for newby's or has it been such a long term issue that there is likely to be a fair number of openings for newby's?
I guess my last group of question's is, with advancements in genetically modified crops and also new spray equipment available to the farmers that has minimal impact on new crops is there a long term future for the industry outside of firebombing? If firebombing does become the mainstay, where will experienced low level pilots come from?
Thanks in advance for any information and I am hoping the rains continue as I am originally from the country and a lot of close friends have been finding it very very tough (especially in the Wimmera where they are still in a drought, the 12th straight year...)
Cheers
Mr B.
I am at the beginning of my CPL career being older than most new pilots starting (33) and I am not too interested in a career in the airlines. As such I am looking for employment in an area of GA the provides a decent income as well as flying that is more hands on than most other types (as well as a basing in country areas. As such I have been starting to investigate Ag flying as a career.
My first group of questions are: is the Ag industry starting to turn around in Australia with the rain? Do those in or around the industry expect a return to something like it was about ten years ago before this drought really hit? Or is it a case of even if the rains continue and we get some good crops for a number of years?
My second group of questions are, if the industry does take off again (sorry for the pun ), will it just be a case of those relatively experienced guys who have left return and thus there will be very few openings for newby's or has it been such a long term issue that there is likely to be a fair number of openings for newby's?
I guess my last group of question's is, with advancements in genetically modified crops and also new spray equipment available to the farmers that has minimal impact on new crops is there a long term future for the industry outside of firebombing? If firebombing does become the mainstay, where will experienced low level pilots come from?
Thanks in advance for any information and I am hoping the rains continue as I am originally from the country and a lot of close friends have been finding it very very tough (especially in the Wimmera where they are still in a drought, the 12th straight year...)
Cheers
Mr B.
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Put it this way.
People will always have to eat if they want to survive but will not necessary have to travel, in the future.
So I recon ag aviation will survive as an industry.
People will always have to eat if they want to survive but will not necessary have to travel, in the future.
So I recon ag aviation will survive as an industry.
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Mr. B,
It's been some time since I lived in Australia, so I can't speak with any detail regarding the current state. Regarding ag flying, however, perhaps the most salient point is that whereas airline flying is entry level flying, ag work is not. It's also a lot harder to get employed and find a seat flying agricultural operations, than to fly for an airline. This is particularly the case with entry level work.
With the advanced ag positions, it's impossible without substantial experience.
The ag industry as a whole has sufferered due to economic changes, due to different trends in agriculture, changes in the way some chemicals are applied, changes in the chemicals themselves, etc. A farmer who finds he can chemigate, rather than fumigate or aerial applicate, for less money, will do so. Often even at the expense of damage to the land and contamination of the soil. The same applies to the use of ground rigs rather than aerial platforms.
A steady decline in the pilot base of individuals qualified to do the work, with larger aircraft in use demanding higher experienced pilots (and less of them) has left fewer jobs available. Whereas an ag airplane of yesteryear was relatively inexpensive and easy to insure, ag airplanes that value into the millions today, which carry hefty insurance requirements and can do the work of multiple smalller airplanes, means that fewer opportunities exist for entry level pilots.
What that means is it's a tough nut to crack. When you do get a foot in the door with ag aviation, it may take several years of working on the ground to actually get to fly the airplane...and then it's seasonal work, and there's very seldom any kind of gaurantee or prospect.
Flying for an airline, by comparison, often begins with a few-hundred hour pilot starting out in a Beech 1900 or Brasillia. The airline flies in a very narrow flight envelope, and moves the airplane from one point to another under very controlled conditions. The ag operator still moves the airplane, but it must perform work at the same time; this can be demanding on the airplane and on the pilot, and insurance companies often dictate what qualifications will be allowed the opportunity. An airline can hire pilots all day long at 300 hours these days, and it's happening all the time. For us to put a pilot in an airplane to go fight wildfires here just a few years ago, the insurance alone was nearly sixty thousand dollars for a season in which the airplane didn't fly sixty hours...and that was a pilot with years of ag experience, years of fire experience, and years of time in type.
I'm not posting this to discourage you, but airlines agaisnt ag flying with respect to getting into a career is a lot like comparing getting a paper route with a job in upper management...the paper route is easier to get, just as an airline job is easier to get. I'm also not saying this to drive you to the airlines, but there are a lot more airline seats available than ag seats, and the airline seats have a regular paycheck, known conditions, and a much lower mortality rate.
It's been some time since I lived in Australia, so I can't speak with any detail regarding the current state. Regarding ag flying, however, perhaps the most salient point is that whereas airline flying is entry level flying, ag work is not. It's also a lot harder to get employed and find a seat flying agricultural operations, than to fly for an airline. This is particularly the case with entry level work.
With the advanced ag positions, it's impossible without substantial experience.
The ag industry as a whole has sufferered due to economic changes, due to different trends in agriculture, changes in the way some chemicals are applied, changes in the chemicals themselves, etc. A farmer who finds he can chemigate, rather than fumigate or aerial applicate, for less money, will do so. Often even at the expense of damage to the land and contamination of the soil. The same applies to the use of ground rigs rather than aerial platforms.
A steady decline in the pilot base of individuals qualified to do the work, with larger aircraft in use demanding higher experienced pilots (and less of them) has left fewer jobs available. Whereas an ag airplane of yesteryear was relatively inexpensive and easy to insure, ag airplanes that value into the millions today, which carry hefty insurance requirements and can do the work of multiple smalller airplanes, means that fewer opportunities exist for entry level pilots.
What that means is it's a tough nut to crack. When you do get a foot in the door with ag aviation, it may take several years of working on the ground to actually get to fly the airplane...and then it's seasonal work, and there's very seldom any kind of gaurantee or prospect.
Flying for an airline, by comparison, often begins with a few-hundred hour pilot starting out in a Beech 1900 or Brasillia. The airline flies in a very narrow flight envelope, and moves the airplane from one point to another under very controlled conditions. The ag operator still moves the airplane, but it must perform work at the same time; this can be demanding on the airplane and on the pilot, and insurance companies often dictate what qualifications will be allowed the opportunity. An airline can hire pilots all day long at 300 hours these days, and it's happening all the time. For us to put a pilot in an airplane to go fight wildfires here just a few years ago, the insurance alone was nearly sixty thousand dollars for a season in which the airplane didn't fly sixty hours...and that was a pilot with years of ag experience, years of fire experience, and years of time in type.
I'm not posting this to discourage you, but airlines agaisnt ag flying with respect to getting into a career is a lot like comparing getting a paper route with a job in upper management...the paper route is easier to get, just as an airline job is easier to get. I'm also not saying this to drive you to the airlines, but there are a lot more airline seats available than ag seats, and the airline seats have a regular paycheck, known conditions, and a much lower mortality rate.
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SNS3Guppy,
Thank you very very much for the information. I am well aware of the differences in airlines and Ag flying, but your post definitely clarifies that as well. Thevery reason i am not real interested in Airline flying is for the reasons that you state about it below.
I have done a two low level flights, one with an Ag instructor and I asked if he thinks I would be able to survive and make a go of it in the low level world. He was very honest and said to me that would be up to me, and how I approach my flying, however he said he believes that I have the initial skills to be "trainable" and at least have the right attitude (possibly because I am a bit older?). I am not in it for the "thrill" of flying at low level (I DO NOT want to become a statistic), I am however very interested in the hands on nature of flying and the fact that once you gain some decent experience that the wages being paid to these guys is more than liveable. I have obviously asked him the questions I posed and he stated pretty much what you have, but to my way of thinking if the industry is to survive then newby's have to come along and be trained and operators will have to take a chance on them at some stage... I guess the trick is to try and gain one of those positions if and when they do come along.
Again thanks for the info and if anyone has any more it would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
Mr B.
Thank you very very much for the information. I am well aware of the differences in airlines and Ag flying, but your post definitely clarifies that as well. Thevery reason i am not real interested in Airline flying is for the reasons that you state about it below.
I have done a two low level flights, one with an Ag instructor and I asked if he thinks I would be able to survive and make a go of it in the low level world. He was very honest and said to me that would be up to me, and how I approach my flying, however he said he believes that I have the initial skills to be "trainable" and at least have the right attitude (possibly because I am a bit older?). I am not in it for the "thrill" of flying at low level (I DO NOT want to become a statistic), I am however very interested in the hands on nature of flying and the fact that once you gain some decent experience that the wages being paid to these guys is more than liveable. I have obviously asked him the questions I posed and he stated pretty much what you have, but to my way of thinking if the industry is to survive then newby's have to come along and be trained and operators will have to take a chance on them at some stage... I guess the trick is to try and gain one of those positions if and when they do come along.
Again thanks for the info and if anyone has any more it would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
Mr B.
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...but to my way of thinking if the industry is to survive then newby's have to come along and be trained and operators will have to take a chance on them at some stage...
In the past, pilots would gain experience by gradually working their way into a Pawnee, Ag Truck, or AgCat. Today many those aircraft simply no longer fly, or have been relegated to banner towing or glider towing, and the work is taken up by turbine airplanes that fly faster, haul more, and require substantially more pilot experience for insurance purposes. One airplane doing the work of several means that one pilot is employed instead of several...the trend has been for less and less pilots in demand. The average age of ag pilots has traditionally been higher than other segments of the industry such as the airlines.
An operator who will "take a chance" isn't just taking a chance on your ability to not kill yourself at low level. The flying is the easy part, and it's a small part of being an ag pilot. Inherent to that flying however is the way it's done. It's not merely a matter of flying low and not hurting yourself. That part is a given. The part that's critical is exact spacing of swath runs, exact altitude, proper calibration and coverage, drift, etc. Crop inspection, chemical mixing, and numerous other aspects of the business. An operator who takes a chance is taking a chance that you won't leave skips in the field, cause damage to other susceptible crops with drift, spray the wrong field, etc. With chemicals that can cost hundreds of dollars a gallon or litre, a single mistake can cost the profits of an entire season, and even put an operator out of business. Drift claims can ruin an operator, bring expensive law suits, and cost the reputation and livlihood of the operator or his associates.
Unlike a Cessna 172 or a Katana, an airplane such as an AT-502 is unstable, and can be a handful in turbulence. The center of gravity is constantly changing, as are the flight characteristics. The turbine engine alone costs five or ten times what the light airplane you train in does, and that can all be destroyed by a hot start before you ever start to taxi. Power response isn't instant when you need it, and you have to think and fly well ahead of the airplane. Flying is precise, to much tighter tolerances than instrument flight (such as an ILS), without the obstacle clearance protections of an instrument approach.
Yes, you can learn to do it. Yes, you can find work. Be aware it can be very difficult, and even when you find it, you may end up working minimum wage mixing chemicals and fixing tractors and pumps for several years before you're actually allowed to fly...depending on the operator. Then again, you may find an operator who can put you to work.
Most ag pilots have mechanical aptitude, many are certificated mechanics...an important skill when it comes to doing this sort of work. It is especially important because sometimes no one is there to help you or fix your equipment; it may very well be up to you. Be aware that there's a lot more to being a mechanic than to being a pilot...which vastly expands what you need to know to do the job properly.
Again, I don't intend to discourage you, but to possibly give you a clearer picture of the realities of the business. It's a tough business, a shrinking industry, and as said before, a very tough nut to crack.
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SNS3Guppy,
Thank you again for the info and your candor. Far from me taking what you have written as negative and discouraging, it just makes me want to do Ag flying even more. Whilst I am not a mechanic, I am mechanically minded and love to "fix" things and have done so my whole life. I very much like the idea of having to fly to exact requirements, in fact I impose those sorts of standards on my flying as it is. I am more than willing to do the hard yards in order to get a chance of doing this type of flying. In fact this has been in the back of my mind for a number of years. Most of my flying in the last few years has been on taildraggers with the Pitts Special, C180 and Tigermoth featuring heavily. I realise these are a far cry from an AT802, but I have to start somewhere and hopefully I have been trying to get as much relevant experience as I can within the bounds of the GA training fleet and my budget.
I now have a couple of contacts in the industry thanks to a very generous person and will be chasing these up in due course. Even if the industry is such that they are not willing to take on many or any newby's, I feel I have to give it a go as I don't want to be 60 and say "I wish I had have tried..." I would rather be 60 and say, "at least I gave it my best shot..."
Again thanks for the candor. If anyone else has any info or opinions or SNS3 you have any more info/advice please know that I appreciate it very much.
(Maybe I'm too thick to read between the lines of what SNS3 is saying and accept that it is simply too hard and to insular of an industry to break into without being part of "the family", but I have never been accused of being too smart!)
Cheers
Mr B
Thank you again for the info and your candor. Far from me taking what you have written as negative and discouraging, it just makes me want to do Ag flying even more. Whilst I am not a mechanic, I am mechanically minded and love to "fix" things and have done so my whole life. I very much like the idea of having to fly to exact requirements, in fact I impose those sorts of standards on my flying as it is. I am more than willing to do the hard yards in order to get a chance of doing this type of flying. In fact this has been in the back of my mind for a number of years. Most of my flying in the last few years has been on taildraggers with the Pitts Special, C180 and Tigermoth featuring heavily. I realise these are a far cry from an AT802, but I have to start somewhere and hopefully I have been trying to get as much relevant experience as I can within the bounds of the GA training fleet and my budget.
I now have a couple of contacts in the industry thanks to a very generous person and will be chasing these up in due course. Even if the industry is such that they are not willing to take on many or any newby's, I feel I have to give it a go as I don't want to be 60 and say "I wish I had have tried..." I would rather be 60 and say, "at least I gave it my best shot..."
Again thanks for the candor. If anyone else has any info or opinions or SNS3 you have any more info/advice please know that I appreciate it very much.
(Maybe I'm too thick to read between the lines of what SNS3 is saying and accept that it is simply too hard and to insular of an industry to break into without being part of "the family", but I have never been accused of being too smart!)
Cheers
Mr B
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Even if the industry is such that they are not willing to take on many or any newby's, I feel I have to give it a go as I don't want to be 60 and say "I wish I had have tried..." I would rather be 60 and say, "at least I gave it my best shot..."
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Ever considered a career flying floats? I know of a number of ag pilots that have had a career change and converted to floats.
Float flying is great hands on flying - every water landing is different and has to be considered on its merits especially for salt water ops. Again, it is very hard to get that break into the industry, particularly for full time work as the increased use of Caravans and the subsequent requirements of insurance companies does make it harder. However, on the same token there is a shortage of float drivers, especially those with experience, and conditions reflect this to an extent.
I am sure I would have loved ag flying like I enjoy floats, but dealing with chemicals put me off. Given the state of ag at the moment I'm glad that I'm flying floats.
W
Float flying is great hands on flying - every water landing is different and has to be considered on its merits especially for salt water ops. Again, it is very hard to get that break into the industry, particularly for full time work as the increased use of Caravans and the subsequent requirements of insurance companies does make it harder. However, on the same token there is a shortage of float drivers, especially those with experience, and conditions reflect this to an extent.
I am sure I would have loved ag flying like I enjoy floats, but dealing with chemicals put me off. Given the state of ag at the moment I'm glad that I'm flying floats.
W
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Dawson,
The low level stuff was done at Curtis Aviation out of Camden, they have the appropriate authorisations and use either a C180 or C182 for this type of training. However I am sure that most "Ag schools" would also gladly do some dual at low level to give you an idea of what it is like.
Cheers
Mr B.
The low level stuff was done at Curtis Aviation out of Camden, they have the appropriate authorisations and use either a C180 or C182 for this type of training. However I am sure that most "Ag schools" would also gladly do some dual at low level to give you an idea of what it is like.
Cheers
Mr B.
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Yeah thanks for that. I would also like to see how i would handle a low level practice spray run. I have been low level before but not actually flying it. Takes a lot of concentration.
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It's not a matter of concentration, but trim and feel. If you're having to concentrate, you're too focused on one thing. A spray run needs to be a natural act in which the last thing you should be doing is concentrating on holding altitude, keeping wings level, etc. If you find yourself in a position where you're concentrating on the spray run, then you're already behind the airplane. You should be out in front of it so that by the time the airplane arrives at an obstacle, you've already flown it and considered it, and made a decision as to what to do. Same for holding altitude, and one of the single most important habits to engrain...keeping your wings level.
Remember that flying down the field is the most basic of any aspect of flying ag; it's the smallest part of the job. It's an important part, but if you're looking to see what ag work like, that's the least significant part.
Remember that flying down the field is the most basic of any aspect of flying ag; it's the smallest part of the job. It's an important part, but if you're looking to see what ag work like, that's the least significant part.
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GA FATMAN, Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. I guess going back to what my original question was: Is the AG industry picking up at all due to the increase in recent rainfalls?
Your answer seems to be no and as you say, you are already in the industry thus I guess you see very little future in it. Although I guess (due to your position wrt family stated below) you could always go back to it if it did pick up and you got bored of airline flying?
Just trying to gauge what peoples' feelings are as I am really not interested in an airline career, but I am interested in making a reasonable income and lifestyle out of aviation and I do prefer living in smaller county towns! (No I am not saying this whilst chewing on some wheat stubble....!!!!). That is if a reasonable income and lifestyle can be eked out of GA!
Your answer seems to be no and as you say, you are already in the industry thus I guess you see very little future in it. Although I guess (due to your position wrt family stated below) you could always go back to it if it did pick up and you got bored of airline flying?
Just trying to gauge what peoples' feelings are as I am really not interested in an airline career, but I am interested in making a reasonable income and lifestyle out of aviation and I do prefer living in smaller county towns! (No I am not saying this whilst chewing on some wheat stubble....!!!!). That is if a reasonable income and lifestyle can be eked out of GA!
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Mr Bomb,
There are other avenues that provide the things that you are looking for. As mentioned by werbil there is float flying, but you could also look at survey flying. You can pretty much be based wherever you like, all hand flying and can provide a decent income. Also provides a few more options later if you do change your mind as the opportunity to go up to multi-engine multi crew is a possibility in survey opening up further opportunities.
There are other avenues that provide the things that you are looking for. As mentioned by werbil there is float flying, but you could also look at survey flying. You can pretty much be based wherever you like, all hand flying and can provide a decent income. Also provides a few more options later if you do change your mind as the opportunity to go up to multi-engine multi crew is a possibility in survey opening up further opportunities.
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Gabilian,
When you say decent income can you please quatify this. I have found peoples versions of decent can differ by a very marked amount... The best I have been able to find on this and other friends for survey flying is about $70,000, would this be in the ballpark, or can you make over $100-120K in Survey?
Cheers
Mr B.
When you say decent income can you please quatify this. I have found peoples versions of decent can differ by a very marked amount... The best I have been able to find on this and other friends for survey flying is about $70,000, would this be in the ballpark, or can you make over $100-120K in Survey?
Cheers
Mr B.
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It really depends on what you're spraying, what equipment you're spraying it with, where, your experience, and how much work is available.
I've made fifteen thousand in a season, and I've made more...and even less. You're going to be paid a lot more to fly an AT-802 vs. an A-188, you'll get more work done, and have more options. However, those seats are certainly not entry level seats. If you're doing forestry work, the pay isn't nearly so good, but hopefully you fly enough (you do) to partially make up for it...you just do a lot more work to make a living. Firefighting pays better, but like spray work, you have no idea how much you'll fly or how much you'll be making. Right of way work (spraying highways and roads) or urban insect work doesn't pay nearly as well, is speciality work in some cases, and is inconsistant. Range land spraying pays a little better, but is often parcelled out in big lots, and you'll get the tail end when you're new...and doesn't pay like row crops. Reseeding (such as after fires) doesn't pay all that well, but there are large acerages, and limited amounts of work.
As for there being a future in ag work because people need to eat...not so. People can eat without spraying, though the productivity won't be the same...and crop treatment is done by many more ways that just aircraft, such as chemigation and ground rigs.
I've made fifteen thousand in a season, and I've made more...and even less. You're going to be paid a lot more to fly an AT-802 vs. an A-188, you'll get more work done, and have more options. However, those seats are certainly not entry level seats. If you're doing forestry work, the pay isn't nearly so good, but hopefully you fly enough (you do) to partially make up for it...you just do a lot more work to make a living. Firefighting pays better, but like spray work, you have no idea how much you'll fly or how much you'll be making. Right of way work (spraying highways and roads) or urban insect work doesn't pay nearly as well, is speciality work in some cases, and is inconsistant. Range land spraying pays a little better, but is often parcelled out in big lots, and you'll get the tail end when you're new...and doesn't pay like row crops. Reseeding (such as after fires) doesn't pay all that well, but there are large acerages, and limited amounts of work.
As for there being a future in ag work because people need to eat...not so. People can eat without spraying, though the productivity won't be the same...and crop treatment is done by many more ways that just aircraft, such as chemigation and ground rigs.
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Have a Go
Mr Bomb don't dispare. I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. Fresh CPL, 30 years old and I also knew that the airlines was not for me. I bit the bullet and got my Ag Rating. Talk to Barry Foster at Leongatha in Vic. I can not speak highly enough of him as an instructor. First think but!!! Don't think that you will step directly into a seat. A season or two as a loader/mixer is essential experience not only for getting to know the ins and outs of chemical delivery systems. But also on customer relations, we are the vital link in the farmer producing a viable crop.
If you persist you will get where you need to be. But its a long haul not for the faint of heart. I didn't get my first seat till I was 32 so don't give up. It can be a highly rewarding job that jet jockey's can only dream of.
(No need to worry about that crease in you white shirt and gold bars.)Ha Ha Don't take offense boys I do know a few airline pilots that can fly a plane without auto pilot!!!
Anyway if you think Ag is the way for you commit yourself and you will get the rewards.
WLKN
If you persist you will get where you need to be. But its a long haul not for the faint of heart. I didn't get my first seat till I was 32 so don't give up. It can be a highly rewarding job that jet jockey's can only dream of.
(No need to worry about that crease in you white shirt and gold bars.)Ha Ha Don't take offense boys I do know a few airline pilots that can fly a plane without auto pilot!!!
Anyway if you think Ag is the way for you commit yourself and you will get the rewards.
WLKN
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Survey and stuff
Aerial survey, like most areas of aviation has its own 'layers'. The 'work from homebase' single engine FNG can gain hours hauling a photographer around but most air survey that pays anything is 'out in the boonies'.
In the pre-GPS days the crew chief was invariably an experienced survey nav who could cover even vast desert areas by eyeball (and other skills) with the help of a decent IR capable driver - flying long, straight, altitude-precise lines. Now with GPS-based survey systems the 'systems op' in the back can be more of a computer nerd, although someone on board with survey experience to make the go/no go w/x decisions is useful.
Getting on board a survey aircraft, single or twin to get hours in is still possible but not too well paid. It will also mean having to spend hangar-time getting what will probably be a geriatric aircraft into shape for the next project. A first season working 'from home' will be a must before being let loose on the world.
Most serious survey projects are now done with medium twins and usually turbo prop. A decent pilot can be the crew chief taking care of the general operations whilst taking mission-related instructions from the systems manager. Today's digital survey cameras are usually worth twice as much as the aircraft and the 500 hr on type minimum insurance requirements will play a part.
Most survey pilots are either FNGs or greyhairs tailing off their heavy-iron careers. There are some career survey pilots but it is far from being a family friendly occupation. And some of the best survey jockeys, I'm happy to say, are of the female persuasion!
So, there are jobs out there but they are not always well paid. They can be interesting, fun and, having just having hung up my headset after 50+ years of survey, certainly worth having a try at.
In the pre-GPS days the crew chief was invariably an experienced survey nav who could cover even vast desert areas by eyeball (and other skills) with the help of a decent IR capable driver - flying long, straight, altitude-precise lines. Now with GPS-based survey systems the 'systems op' in the back can be more of a computer nerd, although someone on board with survey experience to make the go/no go w/x decisions is useful.
Getting on board a survey aircraft, single or twin to get hours in is still possible but not too well paid. It will also mean having to spend hangar-time getting what will probably be a geriatric aircraft into shape for the next project. A first season working 'from home' will be a must before being let loose on the world.
Most serious survey projects are now done with medium twins and usually turbo prop. A decent pilot can be the crew chief taking care of the general operations whilst taking mission-related instructions from the systems manager. Today's digital survey cameras are usually worth twice as much as the aircraft and the 500 hr on type minimum insurance requirements will play a part.
Most survey pilots are either FNGs or greyhairs tailing off their heavy-iron careers. There are some career survey pilots but it is far from being a family friendly occupation. And some of the best survey jockeys, I'm happy to say, are of the female persuasion!
So, there are jobs out there but they are not always well paid. They can be interesting, fun and, having just having hung up my headset after 50+ years of survey, certainly worth having a try at.
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westernlarrikin,
I am very well aware of Barry Foster, he taught my old man to fly in the mid 70's! He is definitely an option to do my rating with.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have been ringing around and it seems that there re a few jobs going as mixers/loaders so it is very possible at the moment to get a foot in the door as you say. Everyone I have spoken to has said usually two years as a mixer/loader and then if you haven't stomped on your d*ick and times are ok you will get a shot. From what I have got from people is that the industry is looking up and people are starting to employ again. Guess I just have to hope that the seasons stay good for the next few years and I can progress to flying.
dawson67, google Woorayl air services and you will find him.
Cheers
Mr B
I am very well aware of Barry Foster, he taught my old man to fly in the mid 70's! He is definitely an option to do my rating with.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I have been ringing around and it seems that there re a few jobs going as mixers/loaders so it is very possible at the moment to get a foot in the door as you say. Everyone I have spoken to has said usually two years as a mixer/loader and then if you haven't stomped on your d*ick and times are ok you will get a shot. From what I have got from people is that the industry is looking up and people are starting to employ again. Guess I just have to hope that the seasons stay good for the next few years and I can progress to flying.
dawson67, google Woorayl air services and you will find him.
Cheers
Mr B