Flying PIC vs SIC
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Flying PIC vs SIC
Here's the question: Large Corporate Flight Dept with all Pilots Type Rated in their aircraft meeting the FOM guidance for PIC. How does your company handle assigning the PIC for the flight? Is it done by seniority or rotated so as to give every pilot the exposure to that duty station? Is anyone aware of any official (NBAA etc) guidance on this subject.
Seems to me that if the PIC is designated based on seniorty alone and assuming low turnover, you could get into a situation where a qualified PIC doesn't fly in that position for a long time. What happens when that individual has to fly with a contract pilot or new hire?
Anyones two cents would be welcome.
Thanks
Seems to me that if the PIC is designated based on seniorty alone and assuming low turnover, you could get into a situation where a qualified PIC doesn't fly in that position for a long time. What happens when that individual has to fly with a contract pilot or new hire?
Anyones two cents would be welcome.
Thanks
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Hi prafn,
If you're operating in the US, you might find the "North American" forum useful as well.
In Europe, ALL pilots on multi-crew aircraft must be type-rated, even if your a brand new FO and the ink hasn't dried on your licence. That individual will fly from the RHS and will still be SIC or "P2" even when they are handling pilot until the appropriate experience/promotion.
In our company, if we fly two captains together, one is designated the PIC for the day. You can then swap if you want the next day. Practicalities come in with regard to experience/authority gradient but you get to decide.
Hey, you said any 2c were welcome, 2 euro cents that is
Safe flying,
Chips
If you're operating in the US, you might find the "North American" forum useful as well.
In Europe, ALL pilots on multi-crew aircraft must be type-rated, even if your a brand new FO and the ink hasn't dried on your licence. That individual will fly from the RHS and will still be SIC or "P2" even when they are handling pilot until the appropriate experience/promotion.
In our company, if we fly two captains together, one is designated the PIC for the day. You can then swap if you want the next day. Practicalities come in with regard to experience/authority gradient but you get to decide.
Hey, you said any 2c were welcome, 2 euro cents that is
Safe flying,
Chips
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I had the same question a while back since I am in the same situation.
I assume you work for a frax as well.
Being Captain I log the PIC time when I am flying in the left seat and log SIC time when I am sitting in the right seat. Since all the SIC are type rated as Captains I give them the PIC time to help them build up their hours.
As far as the FAA is concerned if you are type rated as a Captain and are the pilot flying you can log the time PIC. Our company agrees but holds the "Captain of record" ultimately responsible even if the SIC has a captain type rating.
What I did hear is that the Airlines in the US only consider it PIC time if you are then "Captain of Record"
I assume you work for a frax as well.
Being Captain I log the PIC time when I am flying in the left seat and log SIC time when I am sitting in the right seat. Since all the SIC are type rated as Captains I give them the PIC time to help them build up their hours.
As far as the FAA is concerned if you are type rated as a Captain and are the pilot flying you can log the time PIC. Our company agrees but holds the "Captain of record" ultimately responsible even if the SIC has a captain type rating.
What I did hear is that the Airlines in the US only consider it PIC time if you are then "Captain of Record"
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Simple
Two rated pilots decide who is going sit left seat prior to the flight and be the captain...
What is more germane to this topic is when the SHTF, who actually is in control? Put a senior captain in the right seat, a less experienced but rated pilot in the left seat too, to give him experience, get some PIC time...who's really going to be in charge?
I have found that if you know what you're doing and demonstrate that...you could be left or right seat that day, not typed, not having gone to school on that aircraft, ect...but you're ahead of the responsible pilot...he knows it and is smart enough to not get in your way....it's all about getting it done...
Most will agree the senior right seater in this case will be PIC...even the FAA thinks so. There have been cases where an ATP rated pilot sleeping in the back was fined for what the private pilot did up front.
Some may argue who's really in charge but it usually defers to experience, especially if there is problem that requires some problem solving skill. I think a good right seater, experienced or not, will know if the left seater has things under controll or not and will step in if need be...this includes an FO watching a senior captain hence the reason we have CRM, a silly little program for the airlines to tell thier FOs that it's ok to talk to the capt about the mountain in front of the plane.
I am not sure, if what your thinking about here is trying to get PIC time and figuring out a way to get into the left seat...given some corporate operators always want the senior guy flying. If that's the case, good luck. Be civil, ask to fly the deadhead legs PIC, show some competence, then maybe they will let you fly with people once in a while.
What is more germane to this topic is when the SHTF, who actually is in control? Put a senior captain in the right seat, a less experienced but rated pilot in the left seat too, to give him experience, get some PIC time...who's really going to be in charge?
I have found that if you know what you're doing and demonstrate that...you could be left or right seat that day, not typed, not having gone to school on that aircraft, ect...but you're ahead of the responsible pilot...he knows it and is smart enough to not get in your way....it's all about getting it done...
Most will agree the senior right seater in this case will be PIC...even the FAA thinks so. There have been cases where an ATP rated pilot sleeping in the back was fined for what the private pilot did up front.
Some may argue who's really in charge but it usually defers to experience, especially if there is problem that requires some problem solving skill. I think a good right seater, experienced or not, will know if the left seater has things under controll or not and will step in if need be...this includes an FO watching a senior captain hence the reason we have CRM, a silly little program for the airlines to tell thier FOs that it's ok to talk to the capt about the mountain in front of the plane.
I am not sure, if what your thinking about here is trying to get PIC time and figuring out a way to get into the left seat...given some corporate operators always want the senior guy flying. If that's the case, good luck. Be civil, ask to fly the deadhead legs PIC, show some competence, then maybe they will let you fly with people once in a while.
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Thanks SSG:
Not really an issue of getting flight time- we always swap seats on legs- more a case of not being in the mind set of either PIC or SIC- flight planning, fuel planning,pre-flighting etc. Could have a guy who could concievably never do a pre-flight and conversely a guy who never has to figure his burn or plan for the unexpected.
All the guys in our dept are rated and have several thousand hrs experience- the management types were just trying to figure out if there was any value to rotating PIC/SIC duties on a monthly basis to give everyone exposure to both sets of duties.
Thanks for the feedback- it's always useful to get input from all the folks out there.
Not really an issue of getting flight time- we always swap seats on legs- more a case of not being in the mind set of either PIC or SIC- flight planning, fuel planning,pre-flighting etc. Could have a guy who could concievably never do a pre-flight and conversely a guy who never has to figure his burn or plan for the unexpected.
All the guys in our dept are rated and have several thousand hrs experience- the management types were just trying to figure out if there was any value to rotating PIC/SIC duties on a monthly basis to give everyone exposure to both sets of duties.
Thanks for the feedback- it's always useful to get input from all the folks out there.
