GA pilots only
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GA pilots only
I promised myself that I wouldnt bite but I have and I apologise.
I am not an airline pilot. Sorry, I never wanted to be one but I content myself in business aviation.
Sorry but I did the same ATPL exams.
Sorry, type ratings are the same for a biz jet as for a 737
Sorry, I have to renew my medical, fire and smoke, CRM, First Aid etc. as if I did work for an airline.
Sorry I worked as an instructor and taught a load of ingrates how to fly.
I thought I worked in General Aviation but I find myself grouped with private pilots because they seem to be in GA too?
How about some respect for those people who actually still work for a living as pilots but choose not to work for airlines?
I am not a golden one, I am not a private pilot. I am a professional commercial pilot - airline pilots would kill for my roster and private pilots would kill for my signature.
Sorry chaps, rant over.
I am not an airline pilot. Sorry, I never wanted to be one but I content myself in business aviation.
Sorry but I did the same ATPL exams.
Sorry, type ratings are the same for a biz jet as for a 737
Sorry, I have to renew my medical, fire and smoke, CRM, First Aid etc. as if I did work for an airline.
Sorry I worked as an instructor and taught a load of ingrates how to fly.
I thought I worked in General Aviation but I find myself grouped with private pilots because they seem to be in GA too?
How about some respect for those people who actually still work for a living as pilots but choose not to work for airlines?
I am not a golden one, I am not a private pilot. I am a professional commercial pilot - airline pilots would kill for my roster and private pilots would kill for my signature.
Sorry chaps, rant over.
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When I got my licence many moons ago, i would have been glad for any job, but i worked my way through flying newspapers, with a piston aircraft, during the night to europe, after that I flew small turbo props and finally a regional jet for same years and for the last 2 1/2 years i flew biz jet. I wouldn't want to miss any of the flying i did, but i love the job i do now hands down!
Yes the airline was good training and i met many great guys and girls, but at the end you are just a number carrying out a task, you are not to think or have own ideas, very dangerous.
I love my job and unless forced due to change of circumstances i will never go back to an airline.
Yes and we fill in just as much paper as you do!!
Yes the airline was good training and i met many great guys and girls, but at the end you are just a number carrying out a task, you are not to think or have own ideas, very dangerous.
I love my job and unless forced due to change of circumstances i will never go back to an airline.
Yes and we fill in just as much paper as you do!!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
**looks around**
I thought I was in the Bizjets, Ag Flying, GA etc forum. I can't see any private pilots here.
From what I've found, the airline pilots that "have a clue" respect what we do and are secretly or even not so secretly envy our flying and the aircraft we fly.
When I talk to an airline pilot, I ask "So, when are you going to turn off the autopilot?"
I thought I was in the Bizjets, Ag Flying, GA etc forum. I can't see any private pilots here.
From what I've found, the airline pilots that "have a clue" respect what we do and are secretly or even not so secretly envy our flying and the aircraft we fly.
When I talk to an airline pilot, I ask "So, when are you going to turn off the autopilot?"
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In rumours and news is a thread about having a forum for airline pilots only, in private flying is a thread titled "GA pilots only"
That is what got me a bit cross yesterday, because I fly biz-jets I am not considered (by some) as a a professional pilot.
"So when are you going to fly something bigger?"
So, after a particularly bad day, I took exception and posted in the correct forum for proper pilots!
That is what got me a bit cross yesterday, because I fly biz-jets I am not considered (by some) as a a professional pilot.
"So when are you going to fly something bigger?"
So, after a particularly bad day, I took exception and posted in the correct forum for proper pilots!
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In rumours and news is a thread about having a forum for airline pilots only, in private flying is a thread titled "GA pilots only"
Don't you realise that BOTH of those threads were just taking the mickey? 
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As Wombat says both the 'Professional' and 'GA' threads were tongue in cheek.
Please don't let this one go the same way as the other two with those that got it and those that didn't sniping each other with extra fuel being added by idiots who read only the title, ignore all posts (which would plainly tell them the thread ain't for real), hit 'reply' and pile in with their own inane comments.
I'm declaring stupidity a punishable offence. You have been warned
Please don't let this one go the same way as the other two with those that got it and those that didn't sniping each other with extra fuel being added by idiots who read only the title, ignore all posts (which would plainly tell them the thread ain't for real), hit 'reply' and pile in with their own inane comments.
I'm declaring stupidity a punishable offence. You have been warned
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I was most amused when Danny stuck up those other threads - it was just a matter of time before someone bit!
Benhurr,
You are most definitely a professional/commercial pilot, just not an airline pilot! When I was an instructor I had this same problem, 'when are you going to get a real flying job etc?' Now I fly biz jets I don't have this problem but I do get ribbed for flying a Slowtation, oops sorry I mean Citation!
Benhurr,
You are most definitely a professional/commercial pilot, just not an airline pilot! When I was an instructor I had this same problem, 'when are you going to get a real flying job etc?' Now I fly biz jets I don't have this problem but I do get ribbed for flying a Slowtation, oops sorry I mean Citation!
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I fly biz jets.
I appreciate that there are several wind up bits and pieces going on, but I also feel that there is an almost serious point that I would like to hint at.
GA is a major part of aviation which goes unnoticed and unappreciated by the masses, discuss.
or not.
Makes a change from discussing where to do the next type rating though.
Maybe I am a part of the best kept secret in aviaition and should just shurrup.
Sometimes after a bad day, a touch of appreciation would not go amiss
I appreciate that there are several wind up bits and pieces going on, but I also feel that there is an almost serious point that I would like to hint at.
GA is a major part of aviation which goes unnoticed and unappreciated by the masses, discuss.
or not.
Makes a change from discussing where to do the next type rating though.
Maybe I am a part of the best kept secret in aviaition and should just shurrup.
Sometimes after a bad day, a touch of appreciation would not go amiss
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Mate, When your sitting at FL510 flying over the NATS Tracks... and you hear
"Request flight level 330.."
Just think...
"ONLY FL330?!?!?"
or when your flying in the murk on a dark and stormy night, you look at your instrument panel and on one screen you see your approach plate up, with the aircraft's position plotted on it, and on the other screen, you have your TAWS 3D rendering of the surrounding terrain ahead of you, just think of the poor 737 bstard that has a RMI needle and a compass behind you shooting the same approach...
Or even better.. when you reach your FBO, you don't have to battle the 3 million pax infront of you just to get to through Customs and Immigration..
"Request flight level 330.."
Just think...
"ONLY FL330?!?!?"
or when your flying in the murk on a dark and stormy night, you look at your instrument panel and on one screen you see your approach plate up, with the aircraft's position plotted on it, and on the other screen, you have your TAWS 3D rendering of the surrounding terrain ahead of you, just think of the poor 737 bstard that has a RMI needle and a compass behind you shooting the same approach...
Or even better.. when you reach your FBO, you don't have to battle the 3 million pax infront of you just to get to through Customs and Immigration..
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Ha Ha, when I was flying back from M.E. to Europe the other day at FL450 in my 'little Falcon 2m' it was very amusing to listen to ALL the poor airline pilots requesting ' level change and 30 deg right or left to avoid the huge CBs, Hail, Lightning and Turbulence that we were gazing wistfully down on.
Getting more and more urgent as they kept blocking each other and no one could get through....."sorry but that level is blocked etc" ha ha
Whilst we tucked in to a smoked salmon, avocado and prawn starter enjoying the dusk light show below.
Should I have fresh orange, cranberry, mango , or just plain old water with that. And maybe I will have the Lobster for main course.....
Oh well back to my novel.....and my plans for my weeks off duty.. a nice BA business class flight home....
So, really I don't care what anybody thinks....
Getting more and more urgent as they kept blocking each other and no one could get through....."sorry but that level is blocked etc" ha ha
Whilst we tucked in to a smoked salmon, avocado and prawn starter enjoying the dusk light show below.
Should I have fresh orange, cranberry, mango , or just plain old water with that. And maybe I will have the Lobster for main course.....
Oh well back to my novel.....and my plans for my weeks off duty.. a nice BA business class flight home....
So, really I don't care what anybody thinks....
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Gents,
Just like Pilotbear I've recently completed a Middle East trip and having consumed a terrific starter and main course I'm then offered a cheeseboard with a choice of 12 different cheeses.........
Can anyone beat that?
Just like Pilotbear I've recently completed a Middle East trip and having consumed a terrific starter and main course I'm then offered a cheeseboard with a choice of 12 different cheeses.........
Can anyone beat that?
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Well I remembered to take a cornish pasty, a pepperami hot and a geobar with me as well as a flask of coffee on the way to Liege the other day. And I had FL90 all to myself.
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Top Trumps
This will all end in tears. The only logical conclusion to the thread now is 4HP trumping all with a spirited game of table tennis followed by a refreshing jacuzzi.
Just enjoy the life, at whatever flight level, away from the security queues and a locked steel door.
Rob
Just enjoy the life, at whatever flight level, away from the security queues and a locked steel door.
Rob
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And I remember falling asleep for 40 mins in a Cessna 310 across the north sea at FL090 on the way to Sweden from Aberdeen. You know how the 'duty times' never seem quite right in that job.
'Urgent' car parts
Never flew on my own after that, did have a cornish pastie though.
'Urgent' car parts
Never flew on my own after that, did have a cornish pastie though.
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My Take...
Quit as Aviation Manager last February...just tired of it...but all in all a great job, ran my own show, single pilot Citation Ultra. Made just a little better then most airline guys except the senior capts, after 8 months, what the hell, I think I will apply to Alaska, they were hiring, and all I had to do was fill out the app on thier website.
Got the interview. Took days to get transcripts, paperwork all filled out...then a day on the airlines to go up...asking my self, as I am standing in line at TSA, 'what am I doing'. Talked to two Continental pilots bitching that they are discouraged of adding fuel, the costs to carry extra fuel for safety...told me stories of airliners diverting, because 'company guys' are running around on fumes. Terrific. Images of my capt. telling me to run the plane on fumes.
I get up to Seatle: Mostly other guys there are Horizon commuter guys. Very quiet. No one has any PIC time, everyone looks....scared, is the best way to describe it. Strange.
Sat down to a laptop...Computerized test....very random, vaque, personality stuff...'do you like to be alone...stongly disagree, disagree, neither disagree or agree, agree, strongly agree'. Answer multiple choice,, the first letter the best descibes a snake shedding it's skin....A) Y B) C C) J D) M
Two hundred questions like this, not one aviation question. Told I 'passed'; and given an interview with two line pilots and two HR girls. Easy, asked me about ANC ILS, how I would do it...then the rest of the interview was various questions on how to handle an unsafe, incompetent captain. How would I like the crappy pay, sitting in Anchorage on reserve for three weeks, how would I like not making capt, or being with a stupid capt, how would my family handle the lousy schedules for the first years..what about staying in hotels, not being able to do hobbies and interests for about three weeks out of the month for the reast of my career. on and on..basicaly telling me how lousy this job would be, and why as a corporate pilot would I consider now trying this out.
Back to the room with the quiet, scared commuter pilots.....told the 'good news' that I was to stay another night to come in and interview with the chief pilot and head of HR. the next day...
Interview...'why apply now?' 'what would happen if you were offered a good corporate job?' , 'after corporate, would your family handle the schedule?' 'could you handle the low pay?' 'what would it take for you to leave?' 'What if the capt was incompetent, and you were ahead of him, what would you do?'
Do you have any questions for us....'yeah, is the pension protected?'
Furtive looks....'No, but we are working on that'
Handshakes, 'thanks for coming'
Flew back down to Oregon...half the rear of the airplane where I was sitting was in stitches when I told them about the interview process. At the end of the day,they were looking for guys that could get along, not pilots and guys that could handle the lousy pay....but they could get along...on and on...I commented that if this plane went down, the good news was, that we had some of the most well adjusted, get along with each other, company guys up front....
The passengers couldn't stop laughing and shaking thier heads...
5 days later I was told that I 'they weren't going to move forward with my application'. You know, I probably would have quit, because I don't need the jet time, and I probably would have quit had I been offered a better job, and I probably would have quit because after flying in a 737 for 30 minutes, the allure of being an airline pilot would have worn off. Honestly, I just didn't need it, and they probably saw that. I just wasn't desperate for the hours, the recognition, the title..
This isn't an indictment on airline pilots, or the industry, but it takes a different kinda guy to fly to the same place, for three months straight and call it 'flying'. Being away from family, friends, hobbies, interests and basicaly enjoying my life, for some hope for long term money and a nice title, honestly is a price I am not willing to pay....
Do the math, calculate the long term benefits..the numbers are there, and if your airline makes it to your retirement, good for you, now try to hang on to your pension and your wife. If it works out, great, The price that guys tell me about is the long term effect of absence from family...kids that grow up without a dad, wifes that run around, divorces...ect.. To each his own.
For me it was simple, I ran my own show, got paid well, was home just about everynight...and as far as my ego was concerned, I was flying at FL45O when most of the airlines were getting hammered at FL370. I dressed the way I wanted, didn't have a SOPs manual, no captain, no poltics, no bs that way.
Was it perfect? No, I quit, because I wanted more...to each his own.
If I was to give on reason why most corporate stands out above the airlines, is simply freedom as described above. If your asking whether ariline pilots look down on corporate pilots, who cares...the chief pilot and HR for Alaska made it real clear that my getting hired away by corporate was a serious threat to thier turnover. So yeah, corporate CAN be better.
The other reason, this is as important as anything...you can talk about the pay, the equipment, ect, but when your sitting in that hotel room, I am having a nice dinner, movie, sitting in a hot tub and chasing my wife around the house to it's inevitable conclusion....
Each and every night......week after week, year after year.
Got the interview. Took days to get transcripts, paperwork all filled out...then a day on the airlines to go up...asking my self, as I am standing in line at TSA, 'what am I doing'. Talked to two Continental pilots bitching that they are discouraged of adding fuel, the costs to carry extra fuel for safety...told me stories of airliners diverting, because 'company guys' are running around on fumes. Terrific. Images of my capt. telling me to run the plane on fumes.
I get up to Seatle: Mostly other guys there are Horizon commuter guys. Very quiet. No one has any PIC time, everyone looks....scared, is the best way to describe it. Strange.
Sat down to a laptop...Computerized test....very random, vaque, personality stuff...'do you like to be alone...stongly disagree, disagree, neither disagree or agree, agree, strongly agree'. Answer multiple choice,, the first letter the best descibes a snake shedding it's skin....A) Y B) C C) J D) M
Two hundred questions like this, not one aviation question. Told I 'passed'; and given an interview with two line pilots and two HR girls. Easy, asked me about ANC ILS, how I would do it...then the rest of the interview was various questions on how to handle an unsafe, incompetent captain. How would I like the crappy pay, sitting in Anchorage on reserve for three weeks, how would I like not making capt, or being with a stupid capt, how would my family handle the lousy schedules for the first years..what about staying in hotels, not being able to do hobbies and interests for about three weeks out of the month for the reast of my career. on and on..basicaly telling me how lousy this job would be, and why as a corporate pilot would I consider now trying this out.
Back to the room with the quiet, scared commuter pilots.....told the 'good news' that I was to stay another night to come in and interview with the chief pilot and head of HR. the next day...
Interview...'why apply now?' 'what would happen if you were offered a good corporate job?' , 'after corporate, would your family handle the schedule?' 'could you handle the low pay?' 'what would it take for you to leave?' 'What if the capt was incompetent, and you were ahead of him, what would you do?'
Do you have any questions for us....'yeah, is the pension protected?'
Furtive looks....'No, but we are working on that'
Handshakes, 'thanks for coming'
Flew back down to Oregon...half the rear of the airplane where I was sitting was in stitches when I told them about the interview process. At the end of the day,they were looking for guys that could get along, not pilots and guys that could handle the lousy pay....but they could get along...on and on...I commented that if this plane went down, the good news was, that we had some of the most well adjusted, get along with each other, company guys up front....
The passengers couldn't stop laughing and shaking thier heads...
5 days later I was told that I 'they weren't going to move forward with my application'. You know, I probably would have quit, because I don't need the jet time, and I probably would have quit had I been offered a better job, and I probably would have quit because after flying in a 737 for 30 minutes, the allure of being an airline pilot would have worn off. Honestly, I just didn't need it, and they probably saw that. I just wasn't desperate for the hours, the recognition, the title..
This isn't an indictment on airline pilots, or the industry, but it takes a different kinda guy to fly to the same place, for three months straight and call it 'flying'. Being away from family, friends, hobbies, interests and basicaly enjoying my life, for some hope for long term money and a nice title, honestly is a price I am not willing to pay....
Do the math, calculate the long term benefits..the numbers are there, and if your airline makes it to your retirement, good for you, now try to hang on to your pension and your wife. If it works out, great, The price that guys tell me about is the long term effect of absence from family...kids that grow up without a dad, wifes that run around, divorces...ect.. To each his own.
For me it was simple, I ran my own show, got paid well, was home just about everynight...and as far as my ego was concerned, I was flying at FL45O when most of the airlines were getting hammered at FL370. I dressed the way I wanted, didn't have a SOPs manual, no captain, no poltics, no bs that way.
Was it perfect? No, I quit, because I wanted more...to each his own.
If I was to give on reason why most corporate stands out above the airlines, is simply freedom as described above. If your asking whether ariline pilots look down on corporate pilots, who cares...the chief pilot and HR for Alaska made it real clear that my getting hired away by corporate was a serious threat to thier turnover. So yeah, corporate CAN be better.
The other reason, this is as important as anything...you can talk about the pay, the equipment, ect, but when your sitting in that hotel room, I am having a nice dinner, movie, sitting in a hot tub and chasing my wife around the house to it's inevitable conclusion....
Each and every night......week after week, year after year.
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What is a professional pilot??
What is a professional pilot??
Airbus, Boeing, Cessna, Piper, whatever who cares. The point is we are among the privaleged few who get paid (some quite well, some not so) to do something we love.
Some feel that unless you have 100 lives sitting behind you is a show of how important you are, some feel that it is sitting up in the thin air of higher flight levels at mach 0.75.
I was thinking this to myself as I was flying at FL0004 (around four feet) over a crop of corn watching as the mist of chemical and water was spinning in the wing tip vortices. Yes I am that other part of this forum, AG pilots.
I don't think it is important what you do but rather that you take pride in the fact and treat your clients profesionally.
I get the luxury of staying out of controlled traffic. Radio calls are more like a chat to the farmer over the UHF frequency. Meals can vary from a crusty corned meat sandwich to a three course banquet provided by an appreciative client.
Not needing an airstrip three mile long also has its benefiets, it allows me to access parts of this wide brown land of Australia that many don't get to see.
So as far as I can see, be it turbo fan, turbo prop or piston we are all part of the same club that Joe public hold us to great esteem.
Fly safe high,low,fast or slow.
WLKN
Airbus, Boeing, Cessna, Piper, whatever who cares. The point is we are among the privaleged few who get paid (some quite well, some not so) to do something we love.
Some feel that unless you have 100 lives sitting behind you is a show of how important you are, some feel that it is sitting up in the thin air of higher flight levels at mach 0.75.
I was thinking this to myself as I was flying at FL0004 (around four feet) over a crop of corn watching as the mist of chemical and water was spinning in the wing tip vortices. Yes I am that other part of this forum, AG pilots.
I don't think it is important what you do but rather that you take pride in the fact and treat your clients profesionally.
I get the luxury of staying out of controlled traffic. Radio calls are more like a chat to the farmer over the UHF frequency. Meals can vary from a crusty corned meat sandwich to a three course banquet provided by an appreciative client.
Not needing an airstrip three mile long also has its benefiets, it allows me to access parts of this wide brown land of Australia that many don't get to see.
So as far as I can see, be it turbo fan, turbo prop or piston we are all part of the same club that Joe public hold us to great esteem.
Fly safe high,low,fast or slow.
WLKN