Updated briefing Samedan/LSZS
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germany
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I don't remember the MRVA they let you down while passing overhead Samedan, I think it was somewhat around FL140?
arrived at this altitude over the field there are only 2 possibilities:
first one: you see the airport and there is enough space to descend into the valley VFR
second one: you don't see the airport
in any other cases than case number one you have to divert. it's as easy as that.
arrived at this altitude over the field there are only 2 possibilities:
first one: you see the airport and there is enough space to descend into the valley VFR
second one: you don't see the airport
in any other cases than case number one you have to divert. it's as easy as that.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stansted
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I have always taken that rule as set in stone but not everyone does! We came overhead last year and couldnt see a thing so diverted (fully overcast), at the same time 4 aircraft (2 German) reported visual and descended into the cloud 1 by 1! We even checked on the webcam afterwards and were shocked!!
Accident waiting to happen?!
Accident waiting to happen?!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Poland
Age: 69
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errr, nearly correct Herman, but...
Swiss will clear you down to FL170 and ask you to report when you are ready to cancel IFR. By definition, you may only cancel IFR if you are able to maintain VFR.
Once IFR has been acknowledged as cancelled, and if you are able to descend in accordance with VFR, there is nothing to prohibit you from flying below MSA, even if you cannot actually (yet) see the airport. The legality here relates to continuing flight under VFR and has nothing to do with the fact that you may be well below surrounding terrain.
If you are able to maintain VFR all the way down through any hole you may find you have not broken any rules.
If, before descending, and after having cancelled IFR you have reason to think that you may not make it all the way down, Swiss prefer you to let them know that you might just "pop back up" in readiness for your divert.
Too many people make a big deal about Samedan. There is no "white man's magic" associated with landing there - it's just good stick and rudder fun!
Swiss will clear you down to FL170 and ask you to report when you are ready to cancel IFR. By definition, you may only cancel IFR if you are able to maintain VFR.
Once IFR has been acknowledged as cancelled, and if you are able to descend in accordance with VFR, there is nothing to prohibit you from flying below MSA, even if you cannot actually (yet) see the airport. The legality here relates to continuing flight under VFR and has nothing to do with the fact that you may be well below surrounding terrain.
If you are able to maintain VFR all the way down through any hole you may find you have not broken any rules.
If, before descending, and after having cancelled IFR you have reason to think that you may not make it all the way down, Swiss prefer you to let them know that you might just "pop back up" in readiness for your divert.
Too many people make a big deal about Samedan. There is no "white man's magic" associated with landing there - it's just good stick and rudder fun!
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St Gallen
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GPS descend points in Samedan
Guys
I was flying to Samedan today, and was able to catch up METAR over Germany. Thay stated OVC090. As I know, they will let me descend to FL170 as IFR so I assumed, that clouds are somewhere in FL150. I even didnt tried to go there and asked for alternate (st gallen).
But what the hell. When I have descended, I have realized, that there is flat overcast over all the Alps in FL150. Just to cancel IFR and fly there, but I didnt wanted to change my decision.
So my question is.
I was flying to Samedan today, and was able to catch up METAR over Germany. Thay stated OVC090. As I know, they will let me descend to FL170 as IFR so I assumed, that clouds are somewhere in FL150. I even didnt tried to go there and asked for alternate (st gallen).
But what the hell. When I have descended, I have realized, that there is flat overcast over all the Alps in FL150. Just to cancel IFR and fly there, but I didnt wanted to change my decision.
So my question is.
- Over Samedan, they let you descend to FL170 as a IFR
- Tha altitude of highest peaks around Engadine valley is JUST 12.000 ft
- Do you have some non certified GPS procedure, some set of waypoints and altitudes, that will guide you safelly from FL170, lets say to FL100 in the middle of a walley?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Welsh Riviera
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So lets get that one straight, you want to descend to 2000ft below the highest terrain in the area using a non certified GPS procedure?
Why?
It's no loss of face to change your decision, it's professional common sense.
Why?
It's no loss of face to change your decision, it's professional common sense.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
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Not too long a ago two polish pilots paid with their life for something like that. (selfmade GPS approach into Samedan)
http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/1874_e.pdf
Samedan is spectacular flying when the wether is fine and nononono when it isn't.
Why not break the clounds during your descend into St.Gallen and then proceed VFR to Samedan? (assuming you came from the north...)
I donīt wanna sound like mr. wiseguy, but 5600 elevation plus 9000 is 14600. If you can keep VFR between GND and 14600, where is the prob? Even if the peaks are near this altitude...if you can see and avoid them...
You could also try to break clouds in the Lugano arrival, which might be a tad more difficult with the Italians involved, but...
http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/1874_e.pdf
Samedan is spectacular flying when the wether is fine and nononono when it isn't.
Why not break the clounds during your descend into St.Gallen and then proceed VFR to Samedan? (assuming you came from the north...)
I donīt wanna sound like mr. wiseguy, but 5600 elevation plus 9000 is 14600. If you can keep VFR between GND and 14600, where is the prob? Even if the peaks are near this altitude...if you can see and avoid them...
You could also try to break clouds in the Lugano arrival, which might be a tad more difficult with the Italians involved, but...
