NetJets Pilots..........
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NetJets Pilots..........
I would be grateful for advice from current netJets pilots....
1. How do you find the 6 on / 5 off roster? Is the job more suited to single men/women because you hardly get to see your partners/children, or does it allow you to have a fairly normal home life?
2. Does it get tedious staying in hotels for 18 nights per month?
3. Does it get tedious spending 6 days on a tour with just one other pilot?
4. Do you prefer flying NetJets to mass pax airliners?
5. Do the UK pilots find that their sterling equivalent salaries fluctuate much due to variations in the Euro exchange rates? Are such currency exchange rate variations taken into account to ensure the UK pilots are not disadvantaged when the Euro exchange rate is high?
Thanks.
1. How do you find the 6 on / 5 off roster? Is the job more suited to single men/women because you hardly get to see your partners/children, or does it allow you to have a fairly normal home life?
2. Does it get tedious staying in hotels for 18 nights per month?
3. Does it get tedious spending 6 days on a tour with just one other pilot?
4. Do you prefer flying NetJets to mass pax airliners?
5. Do the UK pilots find that their sterling equivalent salaries fluctuate much due to variations in the Euro exchange rates? Are such currency exchange rate variations taken into account to ensure the UK pilots are not disadvantaged when the Euro exchange rate is high?
Thanks.
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Hi Nimbus
1. The 6/5 roster is good, gives you proper rest and time to do things at home. Some pilots say they don't see their family enough, but I still think it's better than many other business aviation jobs where you are on 15 on/15 off kindda thing, and always expected to be on standby while at home........ No, really, 6/5 is not a problem... The problem is when NetJets cuts it to 6/4 or 6/3...
2. No, not for me at least.
3. It depends on the other pilot!!!
Generally though, you fly with normal and easy-going people, so it's not a problem (my own experience at least).
4. Yes, no comparison... And most people who leave NetJets to fly for airlines do it for other reasons (money, roster, contract, etc...).
5. Dunno about that.
Cheers
TTF
1. The 6/5 roster is good, gives you proper rest and time to do things at home. Some pilots say they don't see their family enough, but I still think it's better than many other business aviation jobs where you are on 15 on/15 off kindda thing, and always expected to be on standby while at home........ No, really, 6/5 is not a problem... The problem is when NetJets cuts it to 6/4 or 6/3...
2. No, not for me at least.
3. It depends on the other pilot!!!
Generally though, you fly with normal and easy-going people, so it's not a problem (my own experience at least).4. Yes, no comparison... And most people who leave NetJets to fly for airlines do it for other reasons (money, roster, contract, etc...).
5. Dunno about that.
Cheers
TTF
PPRuNe Handmaiden
6-5 is fine for me. I don't have kids and my husband's in the industry so he's familiar with the job. He's home every day but works for a lo-co.
My family's in Australia so I don't see them any way.
No, it doesn't get tedious staying in hotels ~14-15 days a month. Some are fantastic, some are ok, some aren't.. It's a good chance to catch up with colleagues and if time's available, see some sights.
One of the things the recruiters look for is sociability. Since you're with the same person for 6 days s/he'd better not have weird behaviours. I don't find it a problem.
Mass pax? All pax have mass! No, I don't want to do scheduled airline flying. Too routine and too boring. Done regional flying and that wasn't bad but no way does it compare to this. Husband looks at the flying and variety I get with envy.
Very little if any noticeable fluctuation with the euro/pound. It's usually fixed for a set exchange rate for X number of months to cover that scenario.
My family's in Australia so I don't see them any way.
No, it doesn't get tedious staying in hotels ~14-15 days a month. Some are fantastic, some are ok, some aren't.. It's a good chance to catch up with colleagues and if time's available, see some sights.
One of the things the recruiters look for is sociability. Since you're with the same person for 6 days s/he'd better not have weird behaviours. I don't find it a problem.
Mass pax? All pax have mass! No, I don't want to do scheduled airline flying. Too routine and too boring. Done regional flying and that wasn't bad but no way does it compare to this. Husband looks at the flying and variety I get with envy.
Very little if any noticeable fluctuation with the euro/pound. It's usually fixed for a set exchange rate for X number of months to cover that scenario.
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Thanks for your response - very helpful.
Does anybody have any insight on the following 2 questions:
1. Regarding the NetJets €70 per diem...
- Is it on a use-it-or-lose-it basis? If you dont use it all can you keep the remainder as a top-up to your salary?
- Does it get paid directly into your salary?
- What can you spend it on?
2. Do NetJets pay for car parking at your gateway? If not, I could imagine this could be quite expensive over the course of the year. Do current pilots have any tips to reduce these costs?
Thanks.
Does anybody have any insight on the following 2 questions:
1. Regarding the NetJets €70 per diem...
- Is it on a use-it-or-lose-it basis? If you dont use it all can you keep the remainder as a top-up to your salary?
- Does it get paid directly into your salary?
- What can you spend it on?
2. Do NetJets pay for car parking at your gateway? If not, I could imagine this could be quite expensive over the course of the year. Do current pilots have any tips to reduce these costs?
Thanks.
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70 Euros per day is paid directly into your account, depending on how many days you to for that month, ie. if you did 18 days in May, in June, you would get 18 * 70 in your account.
Spend it as you please, room and breakfast is paid by the company, the rest is up to you.
If you need to ask what to spend it on...come on!
NJ does not park for your parking, yoiu apply for a parking card through the HR dept and they deduct it over 3 months from your per diems, ie. 250 euros per month for 3 months and that takes care of parking at Heathrow for a year.
Spend it as you please, room and breakfast is paid by the company, the rest is up to you.
If you need to ask what to spend it on...come on!
NJ does not park for your parking, yoiu apply for a parking card through the HR dept and they deduct it over 3 months from your per diems, ie. 250 euros per month for 3 months and that takes care of parking at Heathrow for a year.
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Excellent - thanks.
So the only thing you have to pay for yourself from your €70 is dinner?
I believe you get crew meals on the plane?
Sounds like a pretty good deal really.
Do you think the company looks after their pilots well?
So the only thing you have to pay for yourself from your €70 is dinner?
I believe you get crew meals on the plane?
Sounds like a pretty good deal really.
Do you think the company looks after their pilots well?
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Actually the 70€ is used for food, but is also supposed to pay for miscellaneous things such as uniform cleaning, car parking at gateway, etc...
Yes you can eat in the airplane. However it is strictly cold food on the small/medium fleets. And really after a day flying, what most people want is to get out of the airplane and have a warm meal... So bottom line: you end up in restaurants most evenings...
Whether the 70€ per diem is a good deal or not depends a lot on your destination...
Yes you can eat in the airplane. However it is strictly cold food on the small/medium fleets. And really after a day flying, what most people want is to get out of the airplane and have a warm meal... So bottom line: you end up in restaurants most evenings...
Whether the 70€ per diem is a good deal or not depends a lot on your destination...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Since I don't go to Japan or eat out at the Savoy every night then the 70 euros is fine.
I just use the easyJet car park at Luton. I can because we only have one car and my hubby works for easyJet. Otherwise I take a taxi. When my gateway was Heathrow, I used the bus. That's part of the deal with the 70 Euros.
Often, the only hot meal I'll get is breakfast and that can be a hit or miss affair. If it's an early show, forget breakfast. At the end of the day and you're looking at your crew meal that's been on board for a few hours with no refrigeration then it often isn't that palatable. Hence the desire to get out of the bat suit and into a nice restaurant for a decent meal.
I personally have no complaints about how the company has treated me but others will justifiably disagree. Whether or not they choose to post their disagreements is up to them and not for me to discuss in a public forum.
There isn't a job in the world that is 100% fabulous 100% of the time for 100% of the staff.
A lot of your questions have already been asked and you'll find a lot of what you're looking for with the search function. I do understand you wanting to explore the situation. Are you considering the cadet scheme run by OATS or direct entry?
I just use the easyJet car park at Luton. I can because we only have one car and my hubby works for easyJet. Otherwise I take a taxi. When my gateway was Heathrow, I used the bus. That's part of the deal with the 70 Euros.
Often, the only hot meal I'll get is breakfast and that can be a hit or miss affair. If it's an early show, forget breakfast. At the end of the day and you're looking at your crew meal that's been on board for a few hours with no refrigeration then it often isn't that palatable. Hence the desire to get out of the bat suit and into a nice restaurant for a decent meal.
I personally have no complaints about how the company has treated me but others will justifiably disagree. Whether or not they choose to post their disagreements is up to them and not for me to discuss in a public forum.
There isn't a job in the world that is 100% fabulous 100% of the time for 100% of the staff.
A lot of your questions have already been asked and you'll find a lot of what you're looking for with the search function. I do understand you wanting to explore the situation. Are you considering the cadet scheme run by OATS or direct entry?
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Thanks for the helpful response.
I am just exploring the whole area at the moment to be absolutely sure it really is the right thing for me to do. It is really helpful to be able to get the views of people who are actually doing the job at the moment.
I keep thinking of more questions. Can anyone possibly advise on the following please.....
1. What rate of tax do UK NetJets pilot have deducted from their salary? Is it on the UK rate of tax or Portuguese rate of tax?
2. Can passengers smoke onboard the aircraft or is this banned by the JAA legislation? I could imagine it could be very challenging landing an aircraft if your eyes are irritated by passengers' smoke.
Thanks.
I am just exploring the whole area at the moment to be absolutely sure it really is the right thing for me to do. It is really helpful to be able to get the views of people who are actually doing the job at the moment.
I keep thinking of more questions. Can anyone possibly advise on the following please.....
1. What rate of tax do UK NetJets pilot have deducted from their salary? Is it on the UK rate of tax or Portuguese rate of tax?
2. Can passengers smoke onboard the aircraft or is this banned by the JAA legislation? I could imagine it could be very challenging landing an aircraft if your eyes are irritated by passengers' smoke.
Thanks.
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Nimbus.
All very good if somewhat superficial questions. You might want to try asking about seniority.
Pension.
What guarantees are there that the company won't impose contract changes (again) without consultation or negotiation.
What representation the crew have.
When time spent positioning on airlines (and therefore on company business) will begin to be counted as duty time.
The legality of living in one country, being forced to pay tax in another and your social contributions (National Insurance) in a third.
Just a few points that some might consider more important than where to park your car.
All very good if somewhat superficial questions. You might want to try asking about seniority.
Pension.
What guarantees are there that the company won't impose contract changes (again) without consultation or negotiation.
What representation the crew have.
When time spent positioning on airlines (and therefore on company business) will begin to be counted as duty time.
The legality of living in one country, being forced to pay tax in another and your social contributions (National Insurance) in a third.
Just a few points that some might consider more important than where to park your car.
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Smeags, anyone would think you were being negative about NJ's?
I heard that they gave a guy called Mongo Wogchops a hard time about a few things?
You know anything about that?
I heard that they gave a guy called Mongo Wogchops a hard time about a few things?
You know anything about that?
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Ahhhh, yes. Mongo. I was up at Oxford with his father Bongo y'know.
Small chap but incredibly strong. I woke up after one of his soirees and found I'd married three of his sisters
Small chap but incredibly strong. I woke up after one of his soirees and found I'd married three of his sisters
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Up to post #10 this topic was an interesting and factual read.
Smeagel - I think nimbus would be interested in hearing any facts you may have instead of simply posting third person question suggestions.
eg. - You might want to try asking about seniority, pension, what representation the crew have.
Smeagel - I think nimbus would be interested in hearing any facts you may have instead of simply posting third person question suggestions.
eg. - You might want to try asking about seniority, pension, what representation the crew have.
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Smeagal - you raise some interesting questions that I had not considered - I am still rather naïve about the aviation world due to my lack of experience! Are you able to offer your own views on the questions that you raise please?
Thanks
Thanks
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Smeagal - you raise some interesting questions that I had not considered - I am still rather naïve about the aviation world due to my lack of experience! Are you able to offer your own views on the questions that you raise please?
Excellent question... Answer on a post card err... I mean in a book Harry Potter's style 
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RAFAT. My goodness, so tense. If I drop a piece of charcoal down the crack of your arse would you squeeze it into a diamond for me? Take deeeeeeep breaths and relax (while I slip on this rubber glove )
Anyone reading my "third person questions" would have realised that they were heavy allusions to what is NOT right with NJE. I thought it was obvious, the others all thought it was obvious (I see them nodding) so where's the problem? Anybody who has been around this forum for more than five minutes would be well aware of what is wrong in the Garden of NJEden (did you see what I did there?
) and I was merely repeating what I have written oft before. Granted it was a tad indirect but then I know people get so sick of hearing me slag the company off over and over again.
Nimbus oh mighty broomstick rider. As AMEX posted in the other thread you started there is already a wealth of information in here on NJE, all you need to do is use the search function. Yes, a lot of it is out of date but there plenty that isn't. Failing that I believe Pilotarosa sent you his phone number in a PM so you could call and ask him which is pretty generous I feel. If you meet up though stay away from his hands, he has a 'reputation'.
In a nutshell for you though my views on NJE boil down to this (and I apologise to those who are reading this for the 'n'th time). If you shake hands with anyone in upper management count your fingers afterward, they are not to be trusted. Time and again they have gone back on their word, changed contracts without consulation with the the crew, reduced terms and conditions etc etc. They don't care much for your written contract and those who have fallen foul of them in the past have had to resort to the courts to get what is due to them.
The tax situation for certain crewmembers is an absolute nightmare. If you are UK based then you are probably safe for now but your colleagues will not be so. The company has existed in Europe for what, ten years? Yet they still can't be bothered to introduce a 'proper' system.
Pension. There is none.
Crew representation. There is none. The company does what it likes to/with you.
You are a consumable. Don't be fooled into thinking upper management care about the workforce, they don't. Most fleet managers etc do (there are one or two who should never have been given their positions) but their influence is limited. The company expects to keep pilots for a maximum of three years, what does that tell you?
In short NJE is a nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there. There are some excellent people on the inside who are doing their best to change things but theirs is a long and tortuous path and many have fallen by the wayside. Until the company changes its attitude and fixes a few things it will never be a career. For now that appears unlikely as it is run by money men and people only interested in themselves.
On the other hand if you are looking to fly lots of hours in new aircraft to interesting and varied places with nice colleagues (apart from that French bloke that hangs around in here) before moving on to somewhere more civil then it's the place for you.
Is it worth £66,000? Only you can answer that one.
) Anyone reading my "third person questions" would have realised that they were heavy allusions to what is NOT right with NJE. I thought it was obvious, the others all thought it was obvious (I see them nodding) so where's the problem? Anybody who has been around this forum for more than five minutes would be well aware of what is wrong in the Garden of NJEden (did you see what I did there?
) and I was merely repeating what I have written oft before. Granted it was a tad indirect but then I know people get so sick of hearing me slag the company off over and over again.Nimbus oh mighty broomstick rider. As AMEX posted in the other thread you started there is already a wealth of information in here on NJE, all you need to do is use the search function. Yes, a lot of it is out of date but there plenty that isn't. Failing that I believe Pilotarosa sent you his phone number in a PM so you could call and ask him which is pretty generous I feel. If you meet up though stay away from his hands, he has a 'reputation'.
In a nutshell for you though my views on NJE boil down to this (and I apologise to those who are reading this for the 'n'th time). If you shake hands with anyone in upper management count your fingers afterward, they are not to be trusted. Time and again they have gone back on their word, changed contracts without consulation with the the crew, reduced terms and conditions etc etc. They don't care much for your written contract and those who have fallen foul of them in the past have had to resort to the courts to get what is due to them.
The tax situation for certain crewmembers is an absolute nightmare. If you are UK based then you are probably safe for now but your colleagues will not be so. The company has existed in Europe for what, ten years? Yet they still can't be bothered to introduce a 'proper' system.
Pension. There is none.
Crew representation. There is none. The company does what it likes to/with you.
You are a consumable. Don't be fooled into thinking upper management care about the workforce, they don't. Most fleet managers etc do (there are one or two who should never have been given their positions) but their influence is limited. The company expects to keep pilots for a maximum of three years, what does that tell you?
In short NJE is a nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there. There are some excellent people on the inside who are doing their best to change things but theirs is a long and tortuous path and many have fallen by the wayside. Until the company changes its attitude and fixes a few things it will never be a career. For now that appears unlikely as it is run by money men and people only interested in themselves.
On the other hand if you are looking to fly lots of hours in new aircraft to interesting and varied places with nice colleagues (apart from that French bloke that hangs around in here
) before moving on to somewhere more civil then it's the place for you.Is it worth £66,000? Only you can answer that one.
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Hi Nimbus,.
Smeagel is somewhat sarcastic but very right in his assessment. Do not plan NJE for long term. It is just a nice step if you are looking for experience and wait for BA, AF, Virgin.... Do not come for the money (very deceiving). F/O salary is 3000euros net/month. Not that net though as you may have to pay some more depending on your country of residence. It does not include any pension either!
Once you have paid your taxes, the car park, the pension, remains nothing.
Captain salary with a minimum of 2500hrs will then be 5400euros with the same constraints as mentioned above.
70euros aday you will spend especially on small/medium cabin to get a warm meal. Once again this is 30% below the market.
This deal announced as the best deal in Europe is just way below the market.
last thing...do not get sick.
Enjoy
biz
Smeagel is somewhat sarcastic but very right in his assessment. Do not plan NJE for long term. It is just a nice step if you are looking for experience and wait for BA, AF, Virgin.... Do not come for the money (very deceiving). F/O salary is 3000euros net/month. Not that net though as you may have to pay some more depending on your country of residence. It does not include any pension either!
Once you have paid your taxes, the car park, the pension, remains nothing.
Captain salary with a minimum of 2500hrs will then be 5400euros with the same constraints as mentioned above.
70euros aday you will spend especially on small/medium cabin to get a warm meal. Once again this is 30% below the market.
This deal announced as the best deal in Europe is just way below the market.
last thing...do not get sick.
Enjoy
biz
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Thanks for the helpful responses.
The lack of a pension sounds worrying! Do you pay into a private pension? What kind of amounts do NJE pilots typically pay into their monthly pension? I had not factored this issue in and it sounds like a huge disadvantage! This is worrying!
Do you think NJE will try to reduce the 6 on / 5 off roster? Surely any less than 5 days off would be ludicrous?! Pilots would surely leave the company in large numbers.
Do NJE pilots really only work 178 days per year (as stated in their press announcement of 5 dec 2006)? Compared to the average 9-5 office worker who typically works c. 230 days per year, then this NJE contract seems very generous! Am I missing something here?
http://www.netjetseurope.com/pressce...es/2006/244/2/
The lack of a pension sounds worrying! Do you pay into a private pension? What kind of amounts do NJE pilots typically pay into their monthly pension? I had not factored this issue in and it sounds like a huge disadvantage! This is worrying!
Do you think NJE will try to reduce the 6 on / 5 off roster? Surely any less than 5 days off would be ludicrous?! Pilots would surely leave the company in large numbers.
Do NJE pilots really only work 178 days per year (as stated in their press announcement of 5 dec 2006)? Compared to the average 9-5 office worker who typically works c. 230 days per year, then this NJE contract seems very generous! Am I missing something here?
http://www.netjetseurope.com/pressce...es/2006/244/2/