Wake Turbulence
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Wake Turbulence
hi all, i'd like just to exchange some experience with u all bizjet guys. Last week I was approaching in Dubai at 5.00 am ,the weather was fine, wind not considerable,the flight was perfect even the catering was great!
Atis says that rwy in use was 12 and I said :"perfect I'm coming from west so no neverending vectors for rwy 30..today is my day!! i love this job!!"
But.....maybe somebody heard me...
After a while they changed the rwy and i was the second in approach,..ok my breakfast in the hotel will be delayed of 15 minutes i thought...
the vectors were shorter than usual and they closed me 12 miles on final at 2000 ft (usually they go for 20 at least!!)
in front of me there was an emirates triple 7 ,but checking on tcas and visually too it was at the right distance about six miles.
just for information i was with a Falcon 900...at 10 miles with the approach configuration istarted to feel a strange buffet on my aircraft very strange,than after a while my left wing rocked about 30 degrees but the autopilot corrected promptly,then i put my hands on the controls (as i use to do always in turbulence) and the wing rocked strongly 60 degrees again on the left...i can't remember if i disconnected the autopilot or it did by itself but i was full deflection on the right and the aircraft was 5 degrees bank on the left..1800 ft i disconnected the autothrottle too and magically after i guess 5/10 seconds really scaring i had the full control of the aircraft again..
once i landed i called the dubai's twr (not so easy as u can think!!) to know the real distance of the 777 and they weren't so friendly even if i didn't accuse anyone..
analyzing the situation in the hotel with a fresh and nice beer i remembered the image of my tcas showing a lot of aircraft +8 +7 +6 so conclusion....
sometimes we only take care about distance of the preceeding traffic..just take in consideration the wake turb of an heavy departure in case of change of rwy..nice lesson learned..i hope to be helpful for u 2 guys...enjoy your flight!
Atis says that rwy in use was 12 and I said :"perfect I'm coming from west so no neverending vectors for rwy 30..today is my day!! i love this job!!"
But.....maybe somebody heard me...
After a while they changed the rwy and i was the second in approach,..ok my breakfast in the hotel will be delayed of 15 minutes i thought...
the vectors were shorter than usual and they closed me 12 miles on final at 2000 ft (usually they go for 20 at least!!)
in front of me there was an emirates triple 7 ,but checking on tcas and visually too it was at the right distance about six miles.
just for information i was with a Falcon 900...at 10 miles with the approach configuration istarted to feel a strange buffet on my aircraft very strange,than after a while my left wing rocked about 30 degrees but the autopilot corrected promptly,then i put my hands on the controls (as i use to do always in turbulence) and the wing rocked strongly 60 degrees again on the left...i can't remember if i disconnected the autopilot or it did by itself but i was full deflection on the right and the aircraft was 5 degrees bank on the left..1800 ft i disconnected the autothrottle too and magically after i guess 5/10 seconds really scaring i had the full control of the aircraft again..
once i landed i called the dubai's twr (not so easy as u can think!!) to know the real distance of the 777 and they weren't so friendly even if i didn't accuse anyone..
analyzing the situation in the hotel with a fresh and nice beer i remembered the image of my tcas showing a lot of aircraft +8 +7 +6 so conclusion....
sometimes we only take care about distance of the preceeding traffic..just take in consideration the wake turb of an heavy departure in case of change of rwy..nice lesson learned..i hope to be helpful for u 2 guys...enjoy your flight!
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Hi Syeep
In daily enviroment , i'm flying md80, this happen frequently expecially in Fiume approach.
My personal defense is to fly 1dot well high on the glide slope till the rwy....but don't tell anything about it to my foph
In Zurich, in 1998, i was in my Lear60 after a 747-400 well estabilish at 6-7 nm.....at 100 ft the aircraft drop the right wing down, about 45/50°....throttle in the glass...GA!!
Circling to land and everything sound good,but the passengers was very terrified.
beer also for me....
Bye
My personal defense is to fly 1dot well high on the glide slope till the rwy....but don't tell anything about it to my foph
In Zurich, in 1998, i was in my Lear60 after a 747-400 well estabilish at 6-7 nm.....at 100 ft the aircraft drop the right wing down, about 45/50°....throttle in the glass...GA!!
Circling to land and everything sound good,but the passengers was very terrified.
beer also for me....
Bye
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Beware of idiots like me...
I fly soon-to-be-retired 747 Classics, and soon-to-be-retired myself...
xxx
Dont ever believe that we "heavies" are not subject to wake turbulence...
It happens all the time as we follow anything even slightly smaller...
Particularly if on a glide slope, nicely tracked down by "Otto", the other pilot.
xxx
Ever since long ago, I have a tradition, whenever behind ANY traffic, except maybe a C-150 heavy (why did you need to take your fat mother-in-law for a joy ride anyway), that I fly manual approaches a full 1 dot above glide slope. Fine and dandy for me. I have 12,000+feet long runways almost as a general rule, and dont mind to touch down nearly 2,000 feet down the runway, as I will need to add power to make the next turn-off anyway, even without touching the brakes...
xxx
Trouble is for you guys, who follow me, if no sizeable crosswind... Our passengers judge us by the smoothness of our approaches and touchdown, no matter how incompetent I am as a pilot. So if you follow a "heavy iron" operated by an idiot like me, beware, if you are on the glide slope. Further, I understand many of my colleages do exactly same. I dont have rear-view mirrors, and cannot warn you of my "1 dot above"
xxx
Finally, we guys from South America love to eat beans (a normal diet). If on a glide slope, our fumes might require you to don oxygen masks to survive our perfumes...
xxx
Happy (smelly) contrails
xxx
Dont ever believe that we "heavies" are not subject to wake turbulence...
It happens all the time as we follow anything even slightly smaller...
Particularly if on a glide slope, nicely tracked down by "Otto", the other pilot.
xxx
Ever since long ago, I have a tradition, whenever behind ANY traffic, except maybe a C-150 heavy (why did you need to take your fat mother-in-law for a joy ride anyway), that I fly manual approaches a full 1 dot above glide slope. Fine and dandy for me. I have 12,000+feet long runways almost as a general rule, and dont mind to touch down nearly 2,000 feet down the runway, as I will need to add power to make the next turn-off anyway, even without touching the brakes...
xxx
Trouble is for you guys, who follow me, if no sizeable crosswind... Our passengers judge us by the smoothness of our approaches and touchdown, no matter how incompetent I am as a pilot. So if you follow a "heavy iron" operated by an idiot like me, beware, if you are on the glide slope. Further, I understand many of my colleages do exactly same. I dont have rear-view mirrors, and cannot warn you of my "1 dot above"
xxx
Finally, we guys from South America love to eat beans (a normal diet). If on a glide slope, our fumes might require you to don oxygen masks to survive our perfumes...
xxx
Happy (smelly) contrails
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Wake ... smell ...
Now I know where the odor is coming from when app. at MIA ... 
Nice (BelArgUSA) Loved it .. good humor is always necesary.
Apart from that ..
SteepApproach ... I also fly a F.900 and go a lot to DBX ... the worst of all 777 ... I can take a 744 but the 777 is just too much...
Rule of dumb ... the 1 degree sounds good if you know the one in front is ON the glide ... if no .. you are doomed again ...
If wind is calm .. stay away ... 10 is good for me less than that .... hummm don't recommend ...
Even though the 900 is very stable, you get a good shake if not paying attention ... had a scary one following Saudia 777 to JED ... not good when it is that hot ...
Best advise stay away ... the further the better ... ask ATC for more separation, the beer will still be there
Keep it safe ...
Nice (BelArgUSA) Loved it .. good humor is always necesary.
Apart from that ..
SteepApproach ... I also fly a F.900 and go a lot to DBX ... the worst of all 777 ... I can take a 744 but the 777 is just too much...
Rule of dumb ... the 1 degree sounds good if you know the one in front is ON the glide ... if no .. you are doomed again ...
If wind is calm .. stay away ... 10 is good for me less than that .... hummm don't recommend ...
Even though the 900 is very stable, you get a good shake if not paying attention ... had a scary one following Saudia 777 to JED ... not good when it is that hot ...
Best advise stay away ... the further the better ... ask ATC for more separation, the beer will still be there
Keep it safe ...
