Buy a turboprop - but which one?
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Buy a turboprop - but which one?
We are interested in purchasing a Turboprop for our own company use but also to place on an AOC for charter work when not being used. We usually only have 2 pax and about 320Kg of equipment, some in cases, some loose. Operating from UK to most places in Europe over to about Athens as the farthest, sometimes on rather small airfields. Interested in:
B200 - we currently use these so we know them,
P180 - for it's speed, cabin, etc
PC12 - for the economy of a single and the size of that cargo door!
The single turbine of the PC12 rather limits it on the charter market in UK doesn't it? Any thoughts, recomendations and advice welcome on these or any other a/c options we should consider.
Cheers,
B200 - we currently use these so we know them,
P180 - for it's speed, cabin, etc
PC12 - for the economy of a single and the size of that cargo door!
The single turbine of the PC12 rather limits it on the charter market in UK doesn't it? Any thoughts, recomendations and advice welcome on these or any other a/c options we should consider.
Cheers,
Join Date: Mar 2004
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B200 is the best of both worlds cheap enough to be affordable and clasy enough to get you some charter work.
ps We have one available on our fleet pm me for details. New aircraft 06 model nicly fitted out!
ps We have one available on our fleet pm me for details. New aircraft 06 model nicly fitted out!
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PC-12 were at the Aero Expo Wycombe air Park this year, and i asked the salesmen about the aircraft... Its not licenced for profitable flying in the UK. Unable to do charter work. I can't remember the examct reasons, but he said it was for busnisses, and rich business men who want to fly their family around...
this is what they told me... might not be true, he was pretty convincing, unlike myself it seems. Just a thought for you maybe if planning on using it for charter work.
TC
sam
this is what they told me... might not be true, he was pretty convincing, unlike myself it seems. Just a thought for you maybe if planning on using it for charter work.
TC
sam
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Turbo props
If you want to operate on an AOC go for the proven route a B200. S/E turbine is a no no on AOC (VFR day only) not too helpful in Northern Europe!
The B200 is a reliable aeroplane with good freight and pax configurations, supported by a number of approved maintenance facilities.
We have a very nice aircraft which may be available from its owner, operated on our AOC and could be bought with a guarenteed revenue.
The B200 is a reliable aeroplane with good freight and pax configurations, supported by a number of approved maintenance facilities.
We have a very nice aircraft which may be available from its owner, operated on our AOC and could be bought with a guarenteed revenue.
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Kingair to Athens seems a bit of a slog, but given your options it's probably the best fit. We run 3 Kingairs and certainly the charter hours are available, but the revenue gained is fairly geared around aircraft of a certain age if you want to service the repayments. CJ2 may be a better options.
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Not if you need a freight door (CJ2)- which is available also for the B200.
The CJ2 is a good airplane and capable to go to Athens, but only if the winds arent too strong. On the B200 though, as Phil Brockwell mentioned, it can get a bit on edge. BUT Raytheon got the 200GT in the works with a higher cruisespeed and less fuel consumption in higher altitudes if they werenŽt lying to me.
The operating cost are not far apart (CJ2 &B200), cant tell for the Avanti nor PC12...
The B200 can get you into places you cant go with the CJ2 - runway performance. IF you buy one, get one that has the Raisbeck mods done or let them be installed. (Cruise performance, rwy performance overall handling)
If you buy a newer B200 with the Collins Proline 21 cockpit youre on par with the CJ2 avionicswise.
Slight advantage B200: 200hrs maintenance intervals instead of 150 hrs (but you need the time for the same routes especially if you fly further)
On shorter hops the Jet way less efficient (speed and mostly fuel), but on longer flights the speed pays off.
So make up your mind what YOUR needs are and then talk to a possible operator and listen what he suggest - tailored to his clients - then decide.
My Background: 4000hrs B200, 1100 hrs CJ2. CRE/CRI for both types.
The CJ2 is a good airplane and capable to go to Athens, but only if the winds arent too strong. On the B200 though, as Phil Brockwell mentioned, it can get a bit on edge. BUT Raytheon got the 200GT in the works with a higher cruisespeed and less fuel consumption in higher altitudes if they werenŽt lying to me.
The operating cost are not far apart (CJ2 &B200), cant tell for the Avanti nor PC12...
The B200 can get you into places you cant go with the CJ2 - runway performance. IF you buy one, get one that has the Raisbeck mods done or let them be installed. (Cruise performance, rwy performance overall handling)
If you buy a newer B200 with the Collins Proline 21 cockpit youre on par with the CJ2 avionicswise.
Slight advantage B200: 200hrs maintenance intervals instead of 150 hrs (but you need the time for the same routes especially if you fly further)
On shorter hops the Jet way less efficient (speed and mostly fuel), but on longer flights the speed pays off.
So make up your mind what YOUR needs are and then talk to a possible operator and listen what he suggest - tailored to his clients - then decide.
My Background: 4000hrs B200, 1100 hrs CJ2. CRE/CRI for both types.
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Somebody mentioned the C406, how much different is the C425 or C441 to this?
I presume the King Air is more efficient (& available in higher numbers?) than these two. How about the Beech 350?
Fried Chicken
I presume the King Air is more efficient (& available in higher numbers?) than these two. How about the Beech 350?
Fried Chicken
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Not sure how many C406s there are knocking about Europe, at least.
C404s are supposed to be pretty efficient, but run on Avgas which can limit the airfields you can use - especially at night.
Also the PA-42 Cheyennes seem to be nippy and cheap to operate. - If the cabin is sufficient for your needs.
Can't go wrong with a B200 - only move up to a B350 if you need the extra space. And maintenance sites for the B200s are all over the place.
C404s are supposed to be pretty efficient, but run on Avgas which can limit the airfields you can use - especially at night.
Also the PA-42 Cheyennes seem to be nippy and cheap to operate. - If the cabin is sufficient for your needs.
Can't go wrong with a B200 - only move up to a B350 if you need the extra space. And maintenance sites for the B200s are all over the place.
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If you have the funds available, the Cessna 441 is hard to beat.
Fast (300 knots)
Garrett engines.
Fuel efficient, 75 USG/hr.
Large cabin (max seating including pilot...11)
Known ice equipped.
Long range (coast to coast in the USA, eastbound)
RVSM capable if modified accordingly, and efficient at FL330.
With -10 engines, really nice.
My business partner has one, and finds it fits to a T his rather long range flights to central America (Belize and Panama).
Fast (300 knots)
Garrett engines.
Fuel efficient, 75 USG/hr.
Large cabin (max seating including pilot...11)
Known ice equipped.
Long range (coast to coast in the USA, eastbound)
RVSM capable if modified accordingly, and efficient at FL330.
With -10 engines, really nice.
My business partner has one, and finds it fits to a T his rather long range flights to central America (Belize and Panama).
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well, they are efficient thanks to their Garretts...as a PT6 lover I just cant like the Garrets. But that a personal matter 
That aside, the thread starter did ask about 3 airplanes that are in production, which is a key point in my opinion. The Cessnas as well as the Cheyenne are out of production for a long time now. At least the Cheyenne seems to have an issue with part availability (thats what I hear from a maintenance technician).Which is not an issue for a 200, with more than 2000 build yet.
flyadvantage, lets face it, if you ask 5 pilots what kite to buy, youŽll get (on average) 7 different answers. Sit down and make up your mind, what your needs are, what the budget is and what destinations you really have to go into. The Avanti is, in turbopropterms, somewhat limited in field lenght. The Raisbeck B200 is about the best you can get in that respect (with a decent payload and range capability
Resale value and insurance costs have to be looked at too.
Maybe its a good idea to involve an expert, a consultant. make sure he is not closely knitted to an operator, sit down, tell him everything he needs to know.
Have fun !
That aside, the thread starter did ask about 3 airplanes that are in production, which is a key point in my opinion. The Cessnas as well as the Cheyenne are out of production for a long time now. At least the Cheyenne seems to have an issue with part availability (thats what I hear from a maintenance technician).Which is not an issue for a 200, with more than 2000 build yet.
flyadvantage, lets face it, if you ask 5 pilots what kite to buy, youŽll get (on average) 7 different answers. Sit down and make up your mind, what your needs are, what the budget is and what destinations you really have to go into. The Avanti is, in turbopropterms, somewhat limited in field lenght. The Raisbeck B200 is about the best you can get in that respect (with a decent payload and range capability
Resale value and insurance costs have to be looked at too.
Maybe its a good idea to involve an expert, a consultant. make sure he is not closely knitted to an operator, sit down, tell him everything he needs to know.
Have fun !
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the beechcraft 350 is also a good alternative......
fast 300kts
flying high up to 35000ft
great cabin (8passengers) and a great cargo area..
great climbing performances (2500ft/mn up to FL100 then 1500ft/mn up to FL200 then 1000ft/mn up to FL300 at 160kts)
fast 300kts
flying high up to 35000ft
great cabin (8passengers) and a great cargo area..
great climbing performances (2500ft/mn up to FL100 then 1500ft/mn up to FL200 then 1000ft/mn up to FL300 at 160kts)
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Thanks, one and all. Very valid points made. 
It has to be a newer airframe so that rather dismisses the older aircraft types, unfortunately. I have to say from a personal point of view, I am erring towards the B200 range as it is a known quantity to us and from the other comments made. My partner would like a Jet - hence looking at the p180 but some of the operating fields are a bit short.
It has to be a newer airframe so that rather dismisses the older aircraft types, unfortunately. I have to say from a personal point of view, I am erring towards the B200 range as it is a known quantity to us and from the other comments made. My partner would like a Jet - hence looking at the p180 but some of the operating fields are a bit short.
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P180
In the past I used to fly the Avanti.
I have recorded 500hrs on it as Capt.
I used to fly both, King Air and P180.
The Piaggio is my favorite, good performances and I remenber the passengers was really happy with it.
And I used to know some jet pilots with P180 preference.
Take care.
I have recorded 500hrs on it as Capt.
I used to fly both, King Air and P180.
The Piaggio is my favorite, good performances and I remenber the passengers was really happy with it.
And I used to know some jet pilots with P180 preference.
Take care.
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The only little problem of the avanti is the poor cargo area, if your passengers are carrying big bags, this will be a problem....
You won't have it with Beechcraft.......
If you are looking for a new aircraft....the 350 is still in production and the cockpit is well equipped with Proline 21, with this aircraft you have 85% of the speed of the avanti with all the advantages of the beechcraft family (including landing on short fields....), and the good thing is that both aircraft are more or less at the same price.....
You won't have it with Beechcraft.......
If you are looking for a new aircraft....the 350 is still in production and the cockpit is well equipped with Proline 21, with this aircraft you have 85% of the speed of the avanti with all the advantages of the beechcraft family (including landing on short fields....), and the good thing is that both aircraft are more or less at the same price.....