Six Year Seat Lock At NJE.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bizantin, you rascal.
Are you suggesting that someone should sign a contract and then refuse to abide by the terms and conditions? That's absolutely disgusting!! Who on earth would do such a thing? Oh, hang on. Netjets, that's who.
Fair enough then. Rip them off for all you can get
FourGreen. I understand your anger. You are no doubt a hard working, genuine person who has given to the company more than is asked of you. There are/were many like that, myself included. Some of them/us however were abused just a little too much and guess what? We became angry. You ask us to understand your point if view, is it so hard for you to see ours?
You are annoyed by the posts that are solely negative. Well oddly enough I become irritated by the rose-tinted spectacle brigade who flit around these forae telling anyone who will listen that everything is wonderful, marvellous and hunky dory. Funnily enough when these topics get down to the nitty gritty they seem to fade into the distance. Look around this thread for example. Where are those who normally cannot resist posting when anyone asks for information on NJE? We all know who they are, so where are they? Why are they not here? Maybe something to consider should you ever wonder about solidarity in NJE.
With the utmost (and genuine) respect if you had witnessed some of what happened from the inside and heard what some managers and supervisors had to say about crew you would not be so sympathetic toward them. They hold you and your colleagues in very low esteem, do not be fooled by what they tell you to your face. Managers in some departments have openly told their staff "Pilots are ****". Some of the best liars are very near the top of the tree and will tell you whatever they need to guarantee their bonuses. I KNOW this.
How do all interview/indoc and recurrent courses start? With a powerpoint presentation telling the potential recruits, new hires and crew how they are the fulcrum of the operation, the very pinnacle of business aviation, the glue that holds it all together, the last stop when things go wrong. Then, when you ask to be treated as professionals, to perhaps be allowed to negotiate with management, to object when they mess around with your terms, conditions, tax and social contributions what happens? Do they call you, the "best in the business", to the meeting table as equals? Or do they tell you to sign the new contract they drew up for you by December or else?
It's 'or else', isn't it?
Then when some of you decide you need to form a professional body do they agree? After all you are professionals so why should you not have a pilot council or, dare I say it, a union? The airlines who the company are so keen to compare your salaries with all have them so do they allow you to? No.
Do you know what new hires are being told at indoc now? That the independent crew forum set up by your own colleagues is easily read by management who can track the email addresses of all users. Why would they feel the need to tell such lies? Could it be because the forum, which was simply set up as a virtual crewroom, is also used by those who want representation to report their progress? Because management want to scare new hires away from the old hands lest they be tainted? Because they KNOW that there are almost enough members of the IPA now to request representation?
They employ union busting lawyers and place spies on the panel drawn up to arrange the union and get them to forward all communications on the matter to Lisbon and the States. Why would they feel the need to do that do you think? Surely the "best in the business" can be trusted to deal with the company in a fair and equitable manner? After all, that's how the company has treated its employees in the past isn't it?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
The truth of the matter is NJE/NTAS or whatever have used and abused many people since their inception and that's one hell of a legacy to shake off. It certainly won't happen overnight.
I have no doubt that you and some of the new managers and supervisors mean well but the fact remains that there are still some there who are fighting to protect their own little feifdom, their own corner, their privileges yet it is those people who should have been the first out the door.
I have said this before. There are some signs of improvement however there are far more signs of the company's wrongdoing and they have a LOT of reparation to make before anyone who saw what happened on the inside believe they have turned over a new leaf. There have been several new brooms over the years each of whom promised to right the wrongdoings of their predecessors but nothing really happened. Personally I think the biggest problem now is the old guard failing to report honestly to BK. I have no doubt that he is an excellent businessman and man manager but that doesn't help when the people reporting to him are concealing the true feelings of the troops.
I wish you well, I really do. I am an optimist by nature who in my naivete believed what I was told. "We're all in this together, we can make it work, you are the best". Then I heard the laughter behind my back. How many times do you think I bailed the company out by agreeing to reduce rest, turnaround times or show times on the promise of a deal? How many times do you think that deal was broken?
If you can hang in there long enough it costs the company sufficient in training and hiring as people continue to leave you might just get a better deal and perhaps a career. As others have said, as it stands NJE should be seen as no more than a stepping stone. Never feel obligated to them because they sure as hell do not feel the same to you. You are a commodity, a consumable who as falconbis said is only expected to last two or three years in the company by your own management. If they are prepared to put time, effort and money into replacing you after three years don't you think they could expend maybe half that on retaining people? Would be nice, wouldn't it?
SmeagSchmuck (I quite like my new name
)
PS FourGreen. Was that last post of yours an apology? There's hope for us yet
Are you suggesting that someone should sign a contract and then refuse to abide by the terms and conditions? That's absolutely disgusting!! Who on earth would do such a thing? Oh, hang on. Netjets, that's who.
Fair enough then. Rip them off for all you can get
FourGreen. I understand your anger. You are no doubt a hard working, genuine person who has given to the company more than is asked of you. There are/were many like that, myself included. Some of them/us however were abused just a little too much and guess what? We became angry. You ask us to understand your point if view, is it so hard for you to see ours?
You are annoyed by the posts that are solely negative. Well oddly enough I become irritated by the rose-tinted spectacle brigade who flit around these forae telling anyone who will listen that everything is wonderful, marvellous and hunky dory. Funnily enough when these topics get down to the nitty gritty they seem to fade into the distance. Look around this thread for example. Where are those who normally cannot resist posting when anyone asks for information on NJE? We all know who they are, so where are they? Why are they not here? Maybe something to consider should you ever wonder about solidarity in NJE.
With the utmost (and genuine) respect if you had witnessed some of what happened from the inside and heard what some managers and supervisors had to say about crew you would not be so sympathetic toward them. They hold you and your colleagues in very low esteem, do not be fooled by what they tell you to your face. Managers in some departments have openly told their staff "Pilots are ****". Some of the best liars are very near the top of the tree and will tell you whatever they need to guarantee their bonuses. I KNOW this.
How do all interview/indoc and recurrent courses start? With a powerpoint presentation telling the potential recruits, new hires and crew how they are the fulcrum of the operation, the very pinnacle of business aviation, the glue that holds it all together, the last stop when things go wrong. Then, when you ask to be treated as professionals, to perhaps be allowed to negotiate with management, to object when they mess around with your terms, conditions, tax and social contributions what happens? Do they call you, the "best in the business", to the meeting table as equals? Or do they tell you to sign the new contract they drew up for you by December or else?
It's 'or else', isn't it?
Then when some of you decide you need to form a professional body do they agree? After all you are professionals so why should you not have a pilot council or, dare I say it, a union? The airlines who the company are so keen to compare your salaries with all have them so do they allow you to? No.
Do you know what new hires are being told at indoc now? That the independent crew forum set up by your own colleagues is easily read by management who can track the email addresses of all users. Why would they feel the need to tell such lies? Could it be because the forum, which was simply set up as a virtual crewroom, is also used by those who want representation to report their progress? Because management want to scare new hires away from the old hands lest they be tainted? Because they KNOW that there are almost enough members of the IPA now to request representation?
They employ union busting lawyers and place spies on the panel drawn up to arrange the union and get them to forward all communications on the matter to Lisbon and the States. Why would they feel the need to do that do you think? Surely the "best in the business" can be trusted to deal with the company in a fair and equitable manner? After all, that's how the company has treated its employees in the past isn't it?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
The truth of the matter is NJE/NTAS or whatever have used and abused many people since their inception and that's one hell of a legacy to shake off. It certainly won't happen overnight.
I have no doubt that you and some of the new managers and supervisors mean well but the fact remains that there are still some there who are fighting to protect their own little feifdom, their own corner, their privileges yet it is those people who should have been the first out the door.
I have said this before. There are some signs of improvement however there are far more signs of the company's wrongdoing and they have a LOT of reparation to make before anyone who saw what happened on the inside believe they have turned over a new leaf. There have been several new brooms over the years each of whom promised to right the wrongdoings of their predecessors but nothing really happened. Personally I think the biggest problem now is the old guard failing to report honestly to BK. I have no doubt that he is an excellent businessman and man manager but that doesn't help when the people reporting to him are concealing the true feelings of the troops.
I wish you well, I really do. I am an optimist by nature who in my naivete believed what I was told. "We're all in this together, we can make it work, you are the best". Then I heard the laughter behind my back. How many times do you think I bailed the company out by agreeing to reduce rest, turnaround times or show times on the promise of a deal? How many times do you think that deal was broken?
If you can hang in there long enough it costs the company sufficient in training and hiring as people continue to leave you might just get a better deal and perhaps a career. As others have said, as it stands NJE should be seen as no more than a stepping stone. Never feel obligated to them because they sure as hell do not feel the same to you. You are a commodity, a consumable who as falconbis said is only expected to last two or three years in the company by your own management. If they are prepared to put time, effort and money into replacing you after three years don't you think they could expend maybe half that on retaining people? Would be nice, wouldn't it?
SmeagSchmuck (I quite like my new name
)PS FourGreen. Was that last post of yours an apology? There's hope for us yet
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Innerspace
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is hope . . .
Yes, it was an apology. Why? Because I know you did so many extra-miles you could have walked easily the BPK 3T and then enroute to the DPE 4E by foot without getting feet wet . You tried to make things better and got as much frustrated by the system as myself with you. I still don’t think you do the right thing by your unbalanced posts, giving away only half of the info available (or you just don’t know the whole story which I suspected earlier), but it’s up to you of course.
I know, the outside world, which is comparable to NTA, treats its employees the same way or most of them even worse. For me, money is enough for working half the year (!) and others which get more money and prostitute themselves by flying out of countries where I don’t want to life and don’t want to make business with. I don’t enjoy sitting 900 hours in a cockpit per year, either just to have my flying ego happy in a wide body or in a FA. Flying for a private owner: again prostitution. I have fun flying where and what and who we do. Most of the people I was flying with are excellent people to have in the CPT and have a drink with or two. Even the legacy carriers squeeze every bit out of their employees and treat them like numbers.
For me the company is good enough, the package is good, they treat me reasonable and feed me well and everyone looking or a better company: Free to move. The signs are leading the way for the better and I have the feeling that some people try hard to make it better. The numbers of resignations are average (not compared to the mayors of course) especially since the market is so wide open, we are not doing too bad. A lot of our “competitors” like ez and ryan or AB are losing a bad amount and refill with crap (I mean people even worse than me!
).
Looking at the count here in PPRUNE 133000 hits on the interview topic don’t give the HR bad dreams I guess.
Only the same small amount of people posting here worries me since we have a big bunch of people doing their job silent and would be more then welcome to give a more detailed view here.
Some of the MGT needs and will be changed I hope, some are really good so, some are jsut embarassing. The TAX thing is chaos as of now, the hotels are getting worse and need to improve again. Seniority needs to be transparent and will be pretty soon as you know. A Pension plan is coming up I hope and the need for the existence is not negotiable.
Anyway, who cares about my personal point of view anyway? I promised some more substantial than personal posts and topics so here we go:
Did anybody ever sing the song about the relationship between the people on line and the people in the office creating the pain?
The pilots got fed with a nice increase in salary (for certain countries this is true I have to say) compared to what happens to the people in the office. The average Portuguese employee gets around 22000 Euro per year before Tax according the EU. Working more then the pilots do and have no real benefits. The office does not grow the way the fleet and the pilots do and realize that we even are about to be treated better with a future pension plan and other things which are in the loop. Does this create a good working environment? Nope. I don’t think so. The imbalance is getting too steep, the brown stuff starting to move downhill. Growth needs to be balanced to all as well as the improve in lifestyle should move to every employee in NTA and not just to some which never seem to get enough.
Have to go, walk I mean: the extra mile again.
I like this new smile here, dont know here to put it so. So one more statement:
English beer is
I know, the outside world, which is comparable to NTA, treats its employees the same way or most of them even worse. For me, money is enough for working half the year (!) and others which get more money and prostitute themselves by flying out of countries where I don’t want to life and don’t want to make business with. I don’t enjoy sitting 900 hours in a cockpit per year, either just to have my flying ego happy in a wide body or in a FA. Flying for a private owner: again prostitution. I have fun flying where and what and who we do. Most of the people I was flying with are excellent people to have in the CPT and have a drink with or two. Even the legacy carriers squeeze every bit out of their employees and treat them like numbers.
For me the company is good enough, the package is good, they treat me reasonable and feed me well and everyone looking or a better company: Free to move. The signs are leading the way for the better and I have the feeling that some people try hard to make it better. The numbers of resignations are average (not compared to the mayors of course) especially since the market is so wide open, we are not doing too bad. A lot of our “competitors” like ez and ryan or AB are losing a bad amount and refill with crap (I mean people even worse than me!
). Looking at the count here in PPRUNE 133000 hits on the interview topic don’t give the HR bad dreams I guess.
Only the same small amount of people posting here worries me since we have a big bunch of people doing their job silent and would be more then welcome to give a more detailed view here.
Some of the MGT needs and will be changed I hope, some are really good so, some are jsut embarassing. The TAX thing is chaos as of now, the hotels are getting worse and need to improve again. Seniority needs to be transparent and will be pretty soon as you know. A Pension plan is coming up I hope and the need for the existence is not negotiable.
Anyway, who cares about my personal point of view anyway? I promised some more substantial than personal posts and topics so here we go:
Did anybody ever sing the song about the relationship between the people on line and the people in the office creating the pain?
The pilots got fed with a nice increase in salary (for certain countries this is true I have to say) compared to what happens to the people in the office. The average Portuguese employee gets around 22000 Euro per year before Tax according the EU. Working more then the pilots do and have no real benefits. The office does not grow the way the fleet and the pilots do and realize that we even are about to be treated better with a future pension plan and other things which are in the loop. Does this create a good working environment? Nope. I don’t think so. The imbalance is getting too steep, the brown stuff starting to move downhill. Growth needs to be balanced to all as well as the improve in lifestyle should move to every employee in NTA and not just to some which never seem to get enough.
Have to go, walk I mean: the extra mile again.
I like this new smile here, dont know here to put it so. So one more statement:
English beer is
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have made balanced posts in the past. What happens is the 'pro' posters dispute the negative parts only and therefore they get highlighted. There are also enough of the rose tinted brigade around for me not to repeat their points. Do they make the bad points for me? No. (Still conspicuous by their absence I see).
Anyone can use 'search' and form their own opinions.
I've also said before that the office bods get the **** end of the stick. What does that tell you about NJE as a company?. It tells me they still do not know how to treat their staff. Turnover in the office is high and as always training there is little if non-existent. Examples abound of people being drafted in, given a desk (and nothing else) then castigated a month or two later for not performing. Well quelle surprise...........
What do you think is going to happen now they are confining recruitment to Portuguese people only?
Clearly you agree with this and I applaud you for it. But how can you describe such poor management in one moment and the next expect anyone reading this to believe that pilots should consider joining the company? They are managed by the same people, no?
Why would you say that? What is the difference between flying for a single owner and flying for a company? There are some excellent owners out there, just because you have not met them does not mean they don't exist. Here's something else that may surprise you, I and others fly less than you and get paid more. We are also treated as professionals and with respect. Once you come to appreciate that maybe you will understand why NJE is NOT the pinnacle of the industry that some seem to think it is.
Why do they think this? Mainly because they have always been treated badly. Just because they have experienced worse does not necessarily make NJE good. GA in certain european countries is notoriously bad and it is noticeably the people from those countries who sing NJE's praises the loudest. At first anyway. They are so pleased to no longer be on call 24/7 with 'retrospective' days off and rest days down route they think they've won the lottery. Then reality sets in. Have you not noticed how many more negative posts there are on here from serving and recently departed NJE crew? That must tell you something.
I'm sorry but I've no idea what your comments about the SID's was meant to mean. If it is really relevant please explain and I shall address them.
Anyone can use 'search' and form their own opinions.
I've also said before that the office bods get the **** end of the stick. What does that tell you about NJE as a company?. It tells me they still do not know how to treat their staff. Turnover in the office is high and as always training there is little if non-existent. Examples abound of people being drafted in, given a desk (and nothing else) then castigated a month or two later for not performing. Well quelle surprise...........
What do you think is going to happen now they are confining recruitment to Portuguese people only?Clearly you agree with this and I applaud you for it. But how can you describe such poor management in one moment and the next expect anyone reading this to believe that pilots should consider joining the company? They are managed by the same people, no?
Originally Posted by FourGreenNoRed
Flying for a private owner: again prostitution.
Why do they think this? Mainly because they have always been treated badly. Just because they have experienced worse does not necessarily make NJE good. GA in certain european countries is notoriously bad and it is noticeably the people from those countries who sing NJE's praises the loudest. At first anyway. They are so pleased to no longer be on call 24/7 with 'retrospective' days off and rest days down route they think they've won the lottery. Then reality sets in. Have you not noticed how many more negative posts there are on here from serving and recently departed NJE crew? That must tell you something.
I'm sorry but I've no idea what your comments about the SID's was meant to mean. If it is really relevant please explain and I shall address them.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Innerspace
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SID
Of course, there are Jobs around which accomodate all needs and flying for privater owners may or may not do the trick. The ones I know are asking their employees out of their rest whenever they deem it necessary. Dont want that, sitting on the phone and having hard feelings if you say NO, versus calling in sick if you are sick without consequences or fear for your job. Two weeks ON like most do is a No-No for myself. Just a personal point of view of course.
FM got better, I am quite happy with mine, however d'accord with others bad performance in the office. Again, tell me about the company of this size where this is not the case and I reconsider.
I still dont understand your agressiveness towards the motivation to warn everysingle poster here about how bad it is to work for the company. It sounds like hell when you describe it and its not even close to this. They must have hurt you really big.
You must really be THE lucky guy who found the right perfect Job.
Chapeau!
No worries with the SID, tried to use some graphic to describe this extramile which we all are supposed to go.
Cheers
FM got better, I am quite happy with mine, however d'accord with others bad performance in the office. Again, tell me about the company of this size where this is not the case and I reconsider.
I still dont understand your agressiveness towards the motivation to warn everysingle poster here about how bad it is to work for the company. It sounds like hell when you describe it and its not even close to this. They must have hurt you really big.
You must really be THE lucky guy who found the right perfect Job.
Chapeau!
No worries with the SID, tried to use some graphic to describe this extramile which we all are supposed to go.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South of England, Way South
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Say What.....
FourGreenNoRed
Whatever your issues with Smeagel and your love of NJE, you really shouldn't criticise other corporate pilot with your bias against other areas of the industry.
Some people live and fly in countries you wouldn't like to... well their choice. Maybe they actually like it there. Maybe they can't find a job in their own country. Maybe they like the excitement. Whatever their reasons you simply can't dismiss them as prostituteing themselves for doing a job you wouldn't want to.
Flying for a private owner.... Prostitution. In who's book. I've flown for many owners who show respect for me, for the crew and, believe it or not, for duty times and limitations. As Smeagel says, not all of them do, but then many companies are accused of massaging or adjusting FTL's also.
If you are happy with your package, then fine but please do not accuse pilot's whom you do not know of "prostituting" themselves when you do not know their reasons, whether they are equally happy or indeed, having fun flying a few hours a year and having a couple of drinks with their colleagues....
Rant Over... Fly Safe
As for English beer.... you just haven't found the one you like... Keep searching
Whatever your issues with Smeagel and your love of NJE, you really shouldn't criticise other corporate pilot with your bias against other areas of the industry.
Some people live and fly in countries you wouldn't like to... well their choice. Maybe they actually like it there. Maybe they can't find a job in their own country. Maybe they like the excitement. Whatever their reasons you simply can't dismiss them as prostituteing themselves for doing a job you wouldn't want to.
Flying for a private owner.... Prostitution. In who's book. I've flown for many owners who show respect for me, for the crew and, believe it or not, for duty times and limitations. As Smeagel says, not all of them do, but then many companies are accused of massaging or adjusting FTL's also.
If you are happy with your package, then fine but please do not accuse pilot's whom you do not know of "prostituting" themselves when you do not know their reasons, whether they are equally happy or indeed, having fun flying a few hours a year and having a couple of drinks with their colleagues....
Rant Over... Fly Safe
As for English beer.... you just haven't found the one you like... Keep searching
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KentBeTrue
but then many companies are accused of massaging or adjusting FTL's also.
I think his boss made him stop doing it though.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: europe
Age: 53
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
happy NJE pilots are often low experienced who could not get a better job NJE is their achievment,
or ex military flying 24/7 for 3000 euros months so NJE greatimprovment too and new hire in honey moon, the other one are looking for a job.
or ex military flying 24/7 for 3000 euros months so NJE greatimprovment too and new hire in honey moon, the other one are looking for a job.
Right...I could work for other companies that YOU might be calling "better". I for my part am happy here at NJE. We all know that this soup needs some more spice in order to make it perfect but what do you expect from a company growing at such a pace?
Falconbis: if you do not like it here at NJE, go and work for a "better" company or start doing some constructive work on our conditions instead of only bitching about NJE!
Falconbis: if you do not like it here at NJE, go and work for a "better" company or start doing some constructive work on our conditions instead of only bitching about NJE!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EMS, why do you assume Falconbis has not already put some effort into improving conditions there?
By definition anyone who has worked for NJE has made a contribution. Maybe Falconbis, like so many before him/her has finally had enough?
By definition anyone who has worked for NJE has made a contribution. Maybe Falconbis, like so many before him/her has finally had enough?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by N4641P
some stuff
Hawkerpilot hit the nail on the head earlier in this thread when he explained why we bother. Is it a waste of our time? Does it benefit anyone else? We could ask the three people who PM'd me this week asking for information prior to accepting job offers from NJE.
I'll continue until I get bored. I cannot vouch for anyone else as I do not know them.
Thanks for your concern (genuinely) but I'm a grown up golem quite capable of deciding what does and does not benefit me. The amateur psychoanalysis is not required.
Originally Posted by N4641P
I am very interested in what kind of high-paying, more-freetime, direct-entry-captain-ops you all work for now.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: london
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Schmuck.
That reminds me of a joke about why certain people smell. The answer is so the blind can hate them too.
I have to admit SmeagleSmuck or SS as I shall refer to him now, is always full of irrational and biased opinions.
After all he is a pilot.
Would I welcome such a scallywag back into a company that I currently work in? Absolutely!
I don’t think his views are unrealistic or only show one side of an opinion, and
I believe he wasn’t treated particularly well by the company, so I think he behaves remarkably well.
Airborne I’ve found him knowledgeable and a fine handling pilot, in a MPA is CRM is very good. On the ground I’ve found him pleasant, funny and professional.
We all have our personality traits, some may like them others may not. You can’t say he would stab you in the back or lie to you.
I think NJE is an OK company, but then I’ve witnessed and been part of some different companies, which I have heard NJE management criticize as being cowboy. This in itself is very unprofessional. I believe NJE in a majority isn’t cowboy. However we are very Mickey Mouse about others!
So glass houses and stones gentlemen, or ladies, or transgender et al.
We in NJE have a very long, long way to go to be the best. But for VIP travel we are no Gordon Ramsey’s, more a Beefeater, or two for one Hungry Horse.
It’s hard to get on ones high horse about a company that has so many faults.
Being so widely dispersed its hard to get company spirit.
I have met some very, very good guys and yet recently I’ve met some that are not in my league, never mind some one I aspire too.
I would love NJE to be my career and stay forever, I really would. I hope we can surge thro the hypocrisy.
Unlike SS I’ve never been an optimist.
Dam, where’s the spell check?
The only reason I wrote this is that I think it’s very easy to turn things into a verbal nastiness and SS gives an opinion, whether it be right or wrong. NJE will not be seen in a good light if employees put him or other companies down. By all means, praise NJE, if you feel necessary and promote what’s been achieved, but saying he would not be welcomed back into the company by you because he’s a schmuck, hope your passenger/crew CRM is better.
Lets hope we don’t meet face to face as I may get opinionated too, but not on a national forum, or in a crew rest room or FBO in private where that sort of behavior belongs, out of public sight. SS fights his battles on his own and doesn’t need me or any one else to talk for him, so this is not on his request.
He’s more eloquent than I and less common.
As a last note,
would I recommend NJE? Yes.
Is it the best? No
Are there good people there? Yes
Are there some schmucks there? Yes
Is it for every one? No
Is it good to have two opinions, rather than one? I think so
peace out dudes
That reminds me of a joke about why certain people smell. The answer is so the blind can hate them too.
I have to admit SmeagleSmuck or SS as I shall refer to him now, is always full of irrational and biased opinions.
After all he is a pilot.
Would I welcome such a scallywag back into a company that I currently work in? Absolutely!
I don’t think his views are unrealistic or only show one side of an opinion, and
I believe he wasn’t treated particularly well by the company, so I think he behaves remarkably well.
Airborne I’ve found him knowledgeable and a fine handling pilot, in a MPA is CRM is very good. On the ground I’ve found him pleasant, funny and professional.
We all have our personality traits, some may like them others may not. You can’t say he would stab you in the back or lie to you.
I think NJE is an OK company, but then I’ve witnessed and been part of some different companies, which I have heard NJE management criticize as being cowboy. This in itself is very unprofessional. I believe NJE in a majority isn’t cowboy. However we are very Mickey Mouse about others!
So glass houses and stones gentlemen, or ladies, or transgender et al.
We in NJE have a very long, long way to go to be the best. But for VIP travel we are no Gordon Ramsey’s, more a Beefeater, or two for one Hungry Horse.
It’s hard to get on ones high horse about a company that has so many faults.
Being so widely dispersed its hard to get company spirit.
I have met some very, very good guys and yet recently I’ve met some that are not in my league, never mind some one I aspire too.
I would love NJE to be my career and stay forever, I really would. I hope we can surge thro the hypocrisy.
Unlike SS I’ve never been an optimist.
Dam, where’s the spell check?
The only reason I wrote this is that I think it’s very easy to turn things into a verbal nastiness and SS gives an opinion, whether it be right or wrong. NJE will not be seen in a good light if employees put him or other companies down. By all means, praise NJE, if you feel necessary and promote what’s been achieved, but saying he would not be welcomed back into the company by you because he’s a schmuck, hope your passenger/crew CRM is better.
Lets hope we don’t meet face to face as I may get opinionated too, but not on a national forum, or in a crew rest room or FBO in private where that sort of behavior belongs, out of public sight. SS fights his battles on his own and doesn’t need me or any one else to talk for him, so this is not on his request.
He’s more eloquent than I and less common.
As a last note,
would I recommend NJE? Yes.
Is it the best? No
Are there good people there? Yes
Are there some schmucks there? Yes
Is it for every one? No
Is it good to have two opinions, rather than one? I think so
peace out dudes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by pickingupice
*some nice things about me
He sounds like a nice guy though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cautiously eyeing the outside world.
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear. I seem to have upset him.
In this thread I gave a concise answer and left N4641P to join the dots for himself. Apparently this is a Bad Thing.
In the roadshow thread N4641P said in answer to a couple of my questions(I'm paraphrasing slightly here) "If you cannot work out my position we are wasting bandwidth".
So it is alright for him to give me the brush off but not the other way around.
Am I the only one thinking that this bears the pattern of certain other cut and run merchants who always fade away when it becomes a little specific in these threads? We all know who is missing, conspicuous by their absence. Why?
<slaps own forehead> Of course they are posting, how stupid of me. They are just not using their known/real names, they have multiple usernames on PPRuNe!! Devious chaps. Clearly some of them learned something in the military even if it wasn't CRM.
N4641P. If you would like me to respond to your points individually I shall do so, gladly. Say the word my old fruit.
In this thread I gave a concise answer and left N4641P to join the dots for himself. Apparently this is a Bad Thing.
In the roadshow thread N4641P said in answer to a couple of my questions(I'm paraphrasing slightly here) "If you cannot work out my position we are wasting bandwidth".
So it is alright for him to give me the brush off but not the other way around.
Am I the only one thinking that this bears the pattern of certain other cut and run merchants who always fade away when it becomes a little specific in these threads? We all know who is missing, conspicuous by their absence. Why?<slaps own forehead> Of course they are posting, how stupid of me. They are just not using their known/real names, they have multiple usernames on PPRuNe!! Devious chaps. Clearly some of them learned something in the military even if it wasn't CRM.
N4641P. If you would like me to respond to your points individually I shall do so, gladly. Say the word my old fruit.
Last edited by Smeagel; 23rd Jun 2007 at 22:48.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by N4164P
I am very interested in what kind of high-paying, more-freetime, direct-entry-captain-ops you all work for now.
However my workload is much, much lighter and stress levels are now non-existent. None of the chaos, persistent changes, Blackberrying (is that a word?) and other aggravation I had become used to.
With NTAS I flew 650+ hours per year. In the last eight months I have flown 200 hours which equates to 300 per year or less than half of my workload at NTAS. Oh, and all my holiday applications were approved immediately, first time around.
I know of three other ex-NTAS pilots all of whom have landed far better deals. Salaries £20,000 better and permission to freelance on their days off at £1000 per day.
If you are interested I could possibly point you in the right direction.
Guest
Posts: n/a
N4641P.
It was unclear from your post whether or not you were asking a genuine question, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and provided the information. I deliberately did not name the companies thinking that if you were really interested I could give you the information via PM. After all out in the 'real' bizjet world we are pretty choosy about who we work with and 95% of jobs are filled by word of mouth.
In response you make a veiled accusation (I'm pretty sure I'm not misinterpreting you this time) that I was lying.
Give you the names of the companies? Frankly I'd rather stick needles in my eyes if that's your attitude. You want the jobs? Go find them yourself, just like the rest of us did.
It was unclear from your post whether or not you were asking a genuine question, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and provided the information. I deliberately did not name the companies thinking that if you were really interested I could give you the information via PM. After all out in the 'real' bizjet world we are pretty choosy about who we work with and 95% of jobs are filled by word of mouth.
In response you make a veiled accusation (I'm pretty sure I'm not misinterpreting you this time) that I was lying.
Give you the names of the companies? Frankly I'd rather stick needles in my eyes if that's your attitude. You want the jobs? Go find them yourself, just like the rest of us did.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: nowhere new
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clarification
More help required!!!!
I have spent significant amounts of time sifting through the emourmous quantities of information posted in all the Netjets threads - and I still have unanswered questions
I am due to leave military employment soon and recently received an offer of job at Netjets - which I now need to reply to.
Please could I have some straight talking (and simple - remember I'm still military!) clarification to the following:
1. It has been commented on in the Netjets threads that the per diems are taxed - surely this is not the case?
2. The medical cover (Bupa) - does this cover the whole (immediate) family, and do you have to pay the tax liability of the benefit?
3. If you do not take the option for the additional 6 days work - are you guaranteed 5 days off between tours.
4. I have read the information about the way the management have behaved in the past; and also how things are improving. But what is so bad about the company that causes such emotion. Surely they pay you what they say and when you go to work for 6 days you do as they request within the regulations are the contract?? Does it make any difference if you destinations change whilst you are on your 6 day tour??
5. Pension - even the interviewers did not know the details of their company pension. I've read the posts about it being finalised - but what is it at the moment for Brits, and what is it likely to be??
I'm sure I will think of more Q's over the next few days before I have to reply.
Thank you in anticipation of you assistance.
Kind Regards DB
I have spent significant amounts of time sifting through the emourmous quantities of information posted in all the Netjets threads - and I still have unanswered questions
I am due to leave military employment soon and recently received an offer of job at Netjets - which I now need to reply to.
Please could I have some straight talking (and simple - remember I'm still military!) clarification to the following:
1. It has been commented on in the Netjets threads that the per diems are taxed - surely this is not the case?
2. The medical cover (Bupa) - does this cover the whole (immediate) family, and do you have to pay the tax liability of the benefit?
3. If you do not take the option for the additional 6 days work - are you guaranteed 5 days off between tours.
4. I have read the information about the way the management have behaved in the past; and also how things are improving. But what is so bad about the company that causes such emotion. Surely they pay you what they say and when you go to work for 6 days you do as they request within the regulations are the contract?? Does it make any difference if you destinations change whilst you are on your 6 day tour??
5. Pension - even the interviewers did not know the details of their company pension. I've read the posts about it being finalised - but what is it at the moment for Brits, and what is it likely to be??
I'm sure I will think of more Q's over the next few days before I have to reply.
Thank you in anticipation of you assistance.
Kind Regards DB
PPRuNe Handmaiden
G'day DB,
I'll have a go at answering your questions.
Per diems aren't taxed in the UK they are paid as Euros though.
Medical like BUPA I believe covers the family, my husband's covered and he's not employed by NJE. I believe it's assessed as "reward in kind".
I've had a letter from the tax office asking about it and I've handballed it to the office.
The 5 days off in between the tours is pretty much guaranteed except during recurrent sim time. It has to fall in the 200 days per year/50 days per quarter. It is rare to have less than 5 days off in between tours unless you've bidded for leave or SDOs. (special days off) I didn't volunteer for extra days.
Pension. I hope that will improve too. That does need work. I understand that the office is doing such that. No, I don't know the numbers as I'm currently enjoying a reasonable rose at the moment. (days off)
I've flown with many ex-mil guys from the UK and the vast majority of them enjoy the job and the entertaining challenges it brings. After Mil life, NJE is fun.
You do need to ask yourself as to what sort of flying you want to do. If doing 2-4 sector days zooming all over Europe with a reasonable amount of autonomy plus meeting some really nice pax/owners and the possibility of flying some of the newest kit on the market, then NJE's for you.
I hope this helps.
I'll have a go at answering your questions.
Per diems aren't taxed in the UK they are paid as Euros though.
Medical like BUPA I believe covers the family, my husband's covered and he's not employed by NJE. I believe it's assessed as "reward in kind".
I've had a letter from the tax office asking about it and I've handballed it to the office.
The 5 days off in between the tours is pretty much guaranteed except during recurrent sim time. It has to fall in the 200 days per year/50 days per quarter. It is rare to have less than 5 days off in between tours unless you've bidded for leave or SDOs. (special days off) I didn't volunteer for extra days.
Pension. I hope that will improve too. That does need work. I understand that the office is doing such that. No, I don't know the numbers as I'm currently enjoying a reasonable rose at the moment. (days off)
I've flown with many ex-mil guys from the UK and the vast majority of them enjoy the job and the entertaining challenges it brings. After Mil life, NJE is fun.
You do need to ask yourself as to what sort of flying you want to do. If doing 2-4 sector days zooming all over Europe with a reasonable amount of autonomy plus meeting some really nice pax/owners and the possibility of flying some of the newest kit on the market, then NJE's for you.
I hope this helps.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: somewhere only we know
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NJE is ok if you are looking for experience or if you have a pension (BA or mil). If you do not fall into one of the two, you will be just leaving after 2 or 3years because there is no long term perspectives so far.
What kind of company can hire people and not being able to answer : the pension plan is ....?
Overall and personal pension deducted, the salary is just bad for the demanding work especially if you are on small cabin or large cabin.
What kind of company can hire people and not being able to answer : the pension plan is ....?
Overall and personal pension deducted, the salary is just bad for the demanding work especially if you are on small cabin or large cabin.