Flexjet Europe
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Would not have thought the CL fleet would be done away with, as the CL’s (albeit 601) were going to be the "be all to end all" at FLE. The crews are even paid, I believe, £s 20,000 more per year than the Lear crews. What would become of them?
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The Drop - I too get what you mean. But no, I was looking at people who work with their handling agents... I don't think that's narrowed it down too much to any area.
- Edited because I meant to say, the CV's didn't directly state that - they intimated it. I made it fact - apologies for poetic licence... RUMOUR my boy, RUMOUR...
Flanker - sorry, was the "manage" comment aimed at me, or am I being paranoid!?
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Daifly ]
- Edited because I meant to say, the CV's didn't directly state that - they intimated it. I made it fact - apologies for poetic licence... RUMOUR my boy, RUMOUR...
Flanker - sorry, was the "manage" comment aimed at me, or am I being paranoid!?
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Daifly ]
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Daifly
Relax,it was a bit too obscure I know but I was basically saying if it was a footie match I reckon the score looks like:
Netjets 10 Flexjet 0
I understand its into the ninety-first minute.
Will there be a replay?
Relax,it was a bit too obscure I know but I was basically saying if it was a footie match I reckon the score looks like:
Netjets 10 Flexjet 0
I understand its into the ninety-first minute.
Will there be a replay?
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Guess you chaps are in the know, then.
How much in the know are you? Why is Flexjet failing / about to fail. Market presence / penetration or simply Net Jets first to market and the demand is not sufficient to support two fractionals in Europe. Let me know.
Its a damn shame that Europe can't grasp the US bizjet culture.
How much in the know are you? Why is Flexjet failing / about to fail. Market presence / penetration or simply Net Jets first to market and the demand is not sufficient to support two fractionals in Europe. Let me know.
Its a damn shame that Europe can't grasp the US bizjet culture.
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Flanker Yup, paranoia then!
LGW Vulture In the know? Us?! Individualy we all think we are, but then collectively we all convince each other we're not!
However, having spent the last three years studying fractional ownership v. charter closely (know your enemy!) I don't honestly know that fractional ownership is failing in Europe, I just think that it's being compared with the American market all the time, which is not a very fair comparison.
Aircraft ownership, particularly business ownership, is very high in the States, as is business aircraft charter. Neither of these are particularly big within Europe - go and look at the aircraft at Signature Luton for example; the majority of the big stuff is US registered. Until this culture can be changed then the market in Europe is never going to be on a percentage par with the States.
Without a doubt NetJets have had an effect on the market that is here though. As an operator we have seen a reduction in the number of American clients on intra-European flights (and an increase in the number of "CS-DXX's" flying around Europe!).
Having looked closely at it you come up with a number of places where fractional falls down on the typical charters that are flown in Europe. However, I don't think it would be of benefit to anyone to list them here - except NetJets and they probably know it already!
I would agree that FlexJet has lost out to NetJets though through being the second American fractional to come over here, it's like any famous product "Hoover" and "Coke" for example. When I talk of fractionals, I tend to use "NetJets" .
So, I don't think it's a case of market presence or penetration. I think the fractional market has been found in Europe and it's just the case that the market is smaller than they'd envisaged.
It is a damn shame that Europe doesn't grasp the US Bizjet culture, but at the same time, being selfish, it's not too much of a shame that they don't grasp the fractional culture!
(Edited for dimwitted spelling...)
[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: Daifly ]
LGW Vulture In the know? Us?! Individualy we all think we are, but then collectively we all convince each other we're not!
However, having spent the last three years studying fractional ownership v. charter closely (know your enemy!) I don't honestly know that fractional ownership is failing in Europe, I just think that it's being compared with the American market all the time, which is not a very fair comparison.
Aircraft ownership, particularly business ownership, is very high in the States, as is business aircraft charter. Neither of these are particularly big within Europe - go and look at the aircraft at Signature Luton for example; the majority of the big stuff is US registered. Until this culture can be changed then the market in Europe is never going to be on a percentage par with the States.
Without a doubt NetJets have had an effect on the market that is here though. As an operator we have seen a reduction in the number of American clients on intra-European flights (and an increase in the number of "CS-DXX's" flying around Europe!).
Having looked closely at it you come up with a number of places where fractional falls down on the typical charters that are flown in Europe. However, I don't think it would be of benefit to anyone to list them here - except NetJets and they probably know it already!
I would agree that FlexJet has lost out to NetJets though through being the second American fractional to come over here, it's like any famous product "Hoover" and "Coke" for example. When I talk of fractionals, I tend to use "NetJets" .
So, I don't think it's a case of market presence or penetration. I think the fractional market has been found in Europe and it's just the case that the market is smaller than they'd envisaged.
It is a damn shame that Europe doesn't grasp the US Bizjet culture, but at the same time, being selfish, it's not too much of a shame that they don't grasp the fractional culture!
(Edited for dimwitted spelling...)
[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: Daifly ]
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"You've obviously been around Daifly." - that made me laugh!
I don't know if those who know me would agree that I've been around, but I've certainly been lucky enough to work with some great companies that have allowed me to work in a fantastic industry.
Although Pprune can just end up as a bunfight, and recently I seem to have been right in there with a great big custard pie, there are times when I think the information that flows is some of the best around. Perhaps relative anonymity helps people be honest...?
I don't know if those who know me would agree that I've been around, but I've certainly been lucky enough to work with some great companies that have allowed me to work in a fantastic industry.
Although Pprune can just end up as a bunfight, and recently I seem to have been right in there with a great big custard pie, there are times when I think the information that flows is some of the best around. Perhaps relative anonymity helps people be honest...?
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I believe Flexjet and Netjets are both pouring money into their businesses in Europe - but who will pour the most ? They do not have exactly the same interests, as one is (founded by) an aircraft manufacturer, the other by ... a soft drink company ?
