What Chance For A Fair Deal In Netjets Europ?
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What Chance For A Fair Deal In Netjets Europ?
I have watch for some time how the crew at Netjets Europ strugle to be treated with fareness and respect by there bosses. This has been the case for years.
Then I see many pilots leaving and what made me sad was how many of the experenced ones were on the list. The good trainers who are really needed now it is difficult to atract pilots with more than minimum time in the log book. It seemd to me that the managers were doing nothing to stop this but now I know I was wrong.
Although they can only offer the day to day pilots an insult for a new deal I am told they are doing private deals with the experienced ones. Agreeing private deals to make them stay. Do the other pilots get these offers?
Also. Not so long ago some of the brave ones started to arrange a union. They got help by the Teamsters from the US. It is being talked about elsewere that information shared only by those organising the union arrived in Lisboa and the US where it stopped on a VERY senior manager desk. In short one of the Netjets Europ pilots was supposed to be helping his fellows organise a union but insted was sending info to the managers. The mane suspect is well known in topics about the company.
How secure can anyone in this company feel when colleages turn and stab them in the back?
Then I see many pilots leaving and what made me sad was how many of the experenced ones were on the list. The good trainers who are really needed now it is difficult to atract pilots with more than minimum time in the log book. It seemd to me that the managers were doing nothing to stop this but now I know I was wrong.
Although they can only offer the day to day pilots an insult for a new deal I am told they are doing private deals with the experienced ones. Agreeing private deals to make them stay. Do the other pilots get these offers?
Also. Not so long ago some of the brave ones started to arrange a union. They got help by the Teamsters from the US. It is being talked about elsewere that information shared only by those organising the union arrived in Lisboa and the US where it stopped on a VERY senior manager desk. In short one of the Netjets Europ pilots was supposed to be helping his fellows organise a union but insted was sending info to the managers. The mane suspect is well known in topics about the company.
How secure can anyone in this company feel when colleages turn and stab them in the back?
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barista,
I take it you're an outsider? Don't be mislead by a small but vocal minority on this forum. The first call for a union came some 8 months ago, but less than 10% have joined IPA so far. So perhaps the other 90% may not be that unhappy. Of course it's not perfect. There is definitely room for improvement but the outlook is not all that cloudy.
Erik
I take it you're an outsider? Don't be mislead by a small but vocal minority on this forum. The first call for a union came some 8 months ago, but less than 10% have joined IPA so far. So perhaps the other 90% may not be that unhappy. Of course it's not perfect. There is definitely room for improvement but the outlook is not all that cloudy.
Erik
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Agree, situation is dramatic but not desperate! Although some rumours say 30 are resigning in January! The new deal obviously did not meet the expectations of the majority. Announced as the "best deal in Europe", very found it that exciting. I am afraid they'll have to double the offer if they want to crew the forthcoming aircraft!!!
Otherwise....
Otherwise....
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Please be more careful about what you aRE POSTING
Scambuster. I am the ex leader of the Netjets Union push. Your post is incorrect and may cause you some problems, others great suffering and damages the NTA Union cause, please consider editing it.
The earlier post from barista is conjecture and does not serve the Union cause, on the contrary it is potentially a problem for us.
It is true that we strongly suspect leaks from several sources. We have been investigating one but the evidence has proved inconclusive and those who have seen the information are not pointing the finger.
It is easy to go hyperboloic when behind an alias. Please think twice before pointing fingers or indulging in speculation that spread damaging personal rumours.
The Ex Task Force needs to restart afresh, with members who are prepared to stand up and be counted under their own names. We really need your help to do this. The first thing that you could all do is to cease this damaging speculation and let us finish with this affair ourselves.
Thanks for you comprehension.
Adam FIRTH
The earlier post from barista is conjecture and does not serve the Union cause, on the contrary it is potentially a problem for us.
It is true that we strongly suspect leaks from several sources. We have been investigating one but the evidence has proved inconclusive and those who have seen the information are not pointing the finger.
It is easy to go hyperboloic when behind an alias. Please think twice before pointing fingers or indulging in speculation that spread damaging personal rumours.
The Ex Task Force needs to restart afresh, with members who are prepared to stand up and be counted under their own names. We really need your help to do this. The first thing that you could all do is to cease this damaging speculation and let us finish with this affair ourselves.
Thanks for you comprehension.
Adam FIRTH
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The way Netjets do Maths and claim by press that the Pilot salary have been raised is amusing ..and the fact that a lots of Pilots are happy with it is link to experiences.. if you pay peanuts you get monkeys but if you already have monkeys then they will be happy with a little hint of money, now lets see how the best deal of the universe is working:
let say your previous salary before the magic was 100. add 26% raise = 126 remove 30% (5%NI and 25% Portuguese tax )= 88.2 ....and the monkeys are happy
let say your previous salary before the magic was 100. add 26% raise = 126 remove 30% (5%NI and 25% Portuguese tax )= 88.2 ....and the monkeys are happy
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falconbis,
I know you were in a great position before, but most of us were actually paying similar or higher taxes at home. That turns your 100 into 80 or less. When 80 bananas become 88 bananas, this monkey is pleased indeed!
Erik
I know you were in a great position before, but most of us were actually paying similar or higher taxes at home. That turns your 100 into 80 or less. When 80 bananas become 88 bananas, this monkey is pleased indeed!
Erik
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Indeed, on a company standpoint the deal is fair, on some individuals it needs adjustments. You cannot modify in depht a company culture with no collaterals 'damages'.
I will loose money with the" new deal"; however, I just keep the spirit high and see the bright side of it. Not closing the eyes, or putting on rose-tinted glasses; but we still need to flow our concerns to the top management.
THE FEAR IS GONE.... Use your best Company Ressource Management, to steer the boat. One goal, one Objective your salary to be paid ....The rest is pure speculation and kindergarden playground...
Have Fun !
I will loose money with the" new deal"; however, I just keep the spirit high and see the bright side of it. Not closing the eyes, or putting on rose-tinted glasses; but we still need to flow our concerns to the top management.
THE FEAR IS GONE.... Use your best Company Ressource Management, to steer the boat. One goal, one Objective your salary to be paid ....The rest is pure speculation and kindergarden playground...
Have Fun !
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"How secure can anyone in this company feel when colleages turn and stab them in the back?"
...............................welcome to Netjets.....................................
..............................the company you cannot trust........................
only when the last pilot walks away, will it finally get to them what they are doing wrong............................
...............................welcome to Netjets.....................................
..............................the company you cannot trust........................
only when the last pilot walks away, will it finally get to them what they are doing wrong............................
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cl300: "THE FEAR IS GONE.... "
The managers are still there but promoted to other positions others just got different titles.
No ,it is going well, another 30 have left in january, not least for the Fearmanagement that still reigns............
and that is the good thing about ab-initios: they do not complain(they need the hours) and will not leave (otherwise they have to pay)
live is good
outside Netjets
The managers are still there but promoted to other positions others just got different titles.
No ,it is going well, another 30 have left in january, not least for the Fearmanagement that still reigns............
and that is the good thing about ab-initios: they do not complain(they need the hours) and will not leave (otherwise they have to pay)
live is good
outside Netjets
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barista,
I take it you're an outsider?
I take it you're an outsider?
You may now have 88 bannanas but many of us have less and to now one of our coleages is a spy make me think it is time to look down the road
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Changing Men and women in Management do not solve the problem if you don t change the culture and changing the culture is extremly difficult as new managers adapt unconsciensly to the actual Company culture because they want to be part of the new familly, this have been demonstrated and well explained by the audit over NASA and the lost of the 3 shuttles. The Managers changed but not the Company culture which lead NASA to the same consequences...I believed that is also a Netjets problem !
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Paris facilities for NJ pilots
Hi Falconbis,
I guess you are based in Paris. I am a future NJ FO (INDOC in June).
1-Do you know some tricks to park your car at Roissy CDG when working abroad for NJ ?
All parking facilities seem to be expensive at Roissy CDG !
2- During the first day of your roundtrip, are you always flying from Roissy CDG or also from Orly or Le Bourget ?
Thanks a lot
fred
I guess you are based in Paris. I am a future NJ FO (INDOC in June).
1-Do you know some tricks to park your car at Roissy CDG when working abroad for NJ ?
All parking facilities seem to be expensive at Roissy CDG !
2- During the first day of your roundtrip, are you always flying from Roissy CDG or also from Orly or Le Bourget ?
Thanks a lot
fred
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I think, if i don t mistaking you, that you are the guys commenting about how the netjets pilots could be unhappy with that great contract and how good the deal was regarding French tax system no !
Well I m glad for you but that's confirming that this great contract still not attrack experience Pilots and we are turning into a training school !
Regarding your question, your guess is wrong I m not base in Paris, there is no tricks to my knowledge to leave your car for 6 days in CDG beside paying the car park about 60 to 70 euros a tour x 3 tour /month so about 2000 euros/year and you can t remove it from your tax anymore !!
Your first day you will be Airline 90% out of CDG unless your plane is in LBG and you will start from LBG, no car park there or maybe the parking of the museum at the entrance but you will maybe Airline back to CDG and your car in LBG..
Guys base in CDG will know better than me all those think, one guy on my fleet take taxi to go to work that cost him a bit more but he doesn t have to worried!
Good luck
Well I m glad for you but that's confirming that this great contract still not attrack experience Pilots and we are turning into a training school !
Regarding your question, your guess is wrong I m not base in Paris, there is no tricks to my knowledge to leave your car for 6 days in CDG beside paying the car park about 60 to 70 euros a tour x 3 tour /month so about 2000 euros/year and you can t remove it from your tax anymore !!
Your first day you will be Airline 90% out of CDG unless your plane is in LBG and you will start from LBG, no car park there or maybe the parking of the museum at the entrance but you will maybe Airline back to CDG and your car in LBG..
Guys base in CDG will know better than me all those think, one guy on my fleet take taxi to go to work that cost him a bit more but he doesn t have to worried!
Good luck
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Thank you falconbis.
To be honnest, I am not a young pilot (~39yrs old, more than 1800 T/O and landing, overseas missions, section leader for a long time, etc...). Just a different experience than yours. I need to learn very much about commercial aviation indeed but my aeronautical experience is not like a beginner.
I am really happy to discover a new aircraft, a new young & dynamic company, and to meet various people all over Europe... So attracting for me, even if everything is not perfect, I know that reading all threads !
;-)
To be honnest, I am not a young pilot (~39yrs old, more than 1800 T/O and landing, overseas missions, section leader for a long time, etc...). Just a different experience than yours. I need to learn very much about commercial aviation indeed but my aeronautical experience is not like a beginner.
I am really happy to discover a new aircraft, a new young & dynamic company, and to meet various people all over Europe... So attracting for me, even if everything is not perfect, I know that reading all threads !
;-)
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Unrelated to this post
I'm amazed by the amount of anti NJE feeling there seems to be posted on here.
Working also within the bizjet world I regularly spend nights downline with Netjets crews and they all seem to be a smashing bunch of chaps.
They all have their little gripes about the company, but don't we all, however the one thing I would say is wow, the deal that the NJE management have implemented seems to be very good, especially in comparison with other GA operators around Europe, and nay sayers, please don't start slating it, the general feel on the street is that NJE is becoming a very viable option even for those in good positions now.
Also it is a much needed benchmark for other companies to work for in terms of pay and work/life balance, ie 6 on 5 off, and the BS I've seen on here about that being 'flexible' well of course, it is aviation ladies and gentlemen, but I have yet to meet a NJE pilot who has been messed around significantly. They all say, maybe once or twice a year they have a hiccup, but that is it.
I really can understand how the anti NJE crowd gathered, but maybe it's important to look outside and see what's happening 99% of the time, that's where most people are, you will always get the small minority of misshaps, nay sayers, trouble makers and crap managers. Forget about it, live life and if you are not happy, stop moaning and do something about it, there are plenty of jobs for experienced pilots, so go and get one.
Working also within the bizjet world I regularly spend nights downline with Netjets crews and they all seem to be a smashing bunch of chaps.
They all have their little gripes about the company, but don't we all, however the one thing I would say is wow, the deal that the NJE management have implemented seems to be very good, especially in comparison with other GA operators around Europe, and nay sayers, please don't start slating it, the general feel on the street is that NJE is becoming a very viable option even for those in good positions now.
Also it is a much needed benchmark for other companies to work for in terms of pay and work/life balance, ie 6 on 5 off, and the BS I've seen on here about that being 'flexible' well of course, it is aviation ladies and gentlemen, but I have yet to meet a NJE pilot who has been messed around significantly. They all say, maybe once or twice a year they have a hiccup, but that is it.
I really can understand how the anti NJE crowd gathered, but maybe it's important to look outside and see what's happening 99% of the time, that's where most people are, you will always get the small minority of misshaps, nay sayers, trouble makers and crap managers. Forget about it, live life and if you are not happy, stop moaning and do something about it, there are plenty of jobs for experienced pilots, so go and get one.
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How do you know what is BS here and what is not? For how long did you work at NTAS?
You canot acept what you here in the bar as the true story. For a start there is the fear. Many still now what will happen to them if they critisise managment. Before you call this BS I ask you again for how long did you work for the company?
You think the deal is very good? Great, come and work here then. Have your contrat changed when they get out the wrong side of bed one morning.
It makes me lagh when people who have never expereince life inside the company tell us how grate it is.
You canot acept what you here in the bar as the true story. For a start there is the fear. Many still now what will happen to them if they critisise managment. Before you call this BS I ask you again for how long did you work for the company?
You think the deal is very good? Great, come and work here then. Have your contrat changed when they get out the wrong side of bed one morning.
It makes me lagh when people who have never expereince life inside the company tell us how grate it is.
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barista,
the guy hears two different stories: one version from pilots he meets in person, the other from anonymous posters in a bulletin board. Which version do you think comes across as the most genuine of the two?
Erik
the guy hears two different stories: one version from pilots he meets in person, the other from anonymous posters in a bulletin board. Which version do you think comes across as the most genuine of the two?
Erik
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That depend if you now about Fearmanagment in the company or not. Who is crazy enough to tell a new friend in a hotel bar about the illegal duty time on day one? All the reduce rest? Only a fool! Sure the 6/5 roster is given back to us but only if it suits them.
How many spoke their mind on the company survey? Only who do not fear Mme Guillotine. There are also more than one person here giving the bad news, no? Are they all non genuine?
How many spoke their mind on the company survey? Only who do not fear Mme Guillotine. There are also more than one person here giving the bad news, no? Are they all non genuine?
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I will never know
After following all the various discussions here, I was sceptical, but still interested enough to apply to NJE. Afterall, they are paying only a bit more than I get now, but much more time off and better scheduling. But the pilot shortage is not applicable I guess, as 10,300+ hours, Citation types and extensive experience not only all over Europe, but into Africa, India and Asia...resulted in a reply that they have decided to not pursue my application further. Hmmmm...maybe they are happy with all the abinito that will not ask questions??
ciao!
ciao!