From Airline pilot to Lear Charter pilot Question
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From Airline pilot to Lear Charter pilot Question
I am considering geting a Lear Type to do part time corporate/Part 135 flying in addition to my full time 121 flying (Hoping to scale back to 60 hours a month or so). 121 just isn't what it used to be career/stability-wise. I have 6 years corporate experience (but no Lear time) and know the gig. Here are my questions:
1) What is the turnover rate at a typical Lear 135 operator? ie, Would a owner/operator see some value in a long term part-time pilot.
2) Typically, will a Lear (or any jet) pilot, who is interested in airline flying wait for a major 121 call or jump on RJ flying as well.
3) In general, are many pilots at the corporate jet/charter echelon still interested in getting to the airlines or has the last 5 years dampened that desire.
4) If I wanted to just start out as F/O qualified, can you recommend a Sim operator that can qualify me for an 8410 or does this have to be done in the aircraft.
5) What kind of daily rate does a Lear PIC and/or SIC command?
Your input is greatly appreciated....Thank You
1) What is the turnover rate at a typical Lear 135 operator? ie, Would a owner/operator see some value in a long term part-time pilot.
2) Typically, will a Lear (or any jet) pilot, who is interested in airline flying wait for a major 121 call or jump on RJ flying as well.
3) In general, are many pilots at the corporate jet/charter echelon still interested in getting to the airlines or has the last 5 years dampened that desire.
4) If I wanted to just start out as F/O qualified, can you recommend a Sim operator that can qualify me for an 8410 or does this have to be done in the aircraft.
5) What kind of daily rate does a Lear PIC and/or SIC command?
Your input is greatly appreciated....Thank You
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Hey Tiger,
1. Depends on the operator and pilot relationship. Some last one month, some last 20 years. The operator is likely to hold on to the right employee as long as it makes $$ cents. Where as a personal owner is more likely to hold longer ($$ wise) if the relationship is right.
2. As far as I know most business jet pilots would not even think of an RJ job(at least I wouldn't), the pay reduction and lack of 4-5 day Vegas trips would be tough to bare. However... start talking major 121 and many would be all ears (again at least I would).
3. I think the last five years have made corp/charter pilots thankful to be in the private game, but at times even as big as the Global its just tiny up against even a 737... the lust for bigger is still there (at least for me).
4. First I do not recommend only getting SIC qual'ed, go for the PIC the check rides nearly the same. CAE SimuFlite is a fav, FlightSafety is more airline like, and SimCom is a cheaper way out.
5. Ahhh money. Get the most the maket will bare brother! Just don't undercut to get the job... fastest way to blackball yourself overnight. Depends on what part of the country the job is. I would say for the LR-JET type PIC you could get 450/day and up and SIC 300/day and up. Might be a bit low, those are FL numbers... I'm told our bonus comes in sunshine.
Hope this helps.
1. Depends on the operator and pilot relationship. Some last one month, some last 20 years. The operator is likely to hold on to the right employee as long as it makes $$ cents. Where as a personal owner is more likely to hold longer ($$ wise) if the relationship is right.
2. As far as I know most business jet pilots would not even think of an RJ job(at least I wouldn't), the pay reduction and lack of 4-5 day Vegas trips would be tough to bare. However... start talking major 121 and many would be all ears (again at least I would).
3. I think the last five years have made corp/charter pilots thankful to be in the private game, but at times even as big as the Global its just tiny up against even a 737... the lust for bigger is still there (at least for me).
4. First I do not recommend only getting SIC qual'ed, go for the PIC the check rides nearly the same. CAE SimuFlite is a fav, FlightSafety is more airline like, and SimCom is a cheaper way out.
5. Ahhh money. Get the most the maket will bare brother! Just don't undercut to get the job... fastest way to blackball yourself overnight. Depends on what part of the country the job is. I would say for the LR-JET type PIC you could get 450/day and up and SIC 300/day and up. Might be a bit low, those are FL numbers... I'm told our bonus comes in sunshine.
Hope this helps.
I am considering geting a Lear Type to do part time corporate/Part 135 flying in addition to my full time 121 flying (Hoping to scale back to 60 hours a month or so). 121 just isn't what it used to be career/stability-wise. I have 6 years corporate experience (but no Lear time) and know the gig. Here are my questions:
1) What is the turnover rate at a typical Lear 135 operator? ie, Would a owner/operator see some value in a long term part-time pilot.
2) Typically, will a Lear (or any jet) pilot, who is interested in airline flying wait for a major 121 call or jump on RJ flying as well.
3) In general, are many pilots at the corporate jet/charter echelon still interested in getting to the airlines or has the last 5 years dampened that desire.
4) If I wanted to just start out as F/O qualified, can you recommend a Sim operator that can qualify me for an 8410 or does this have to be done in the aircraft.
5) What kind of daily rate does a Lear PIC and/or SIC command?
Your input is greatly appreciated....Thank You
1) What is the turnover rate at a typical Lear 135 operator? ie, Would a owner/operator see some value in a long term part-time pilot.
2) Typically, will a Lear (or any jet) pilot, who is interested in airline flying wait for a major 121 call or jump on RJ flying as well.
3) In general, are many pilots at the corporate jet/charter echelon still interested in getting to the airlines or has the last 5 years dampened that desire.
4) If I wanted to just start out as F/O qualified, can you recommend a Sim operator that can qualify me for an 8410 or does this have to be done in the aircraft.
5) What kind of daily rate does a Lear PIC and/or SIC command?
Your input is greatly appreciated....Thank You
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If you do a Lear type...just don't go to Simcom. Reason: To many part timers that are there for a paycheck. Lousy cutomer service...incorrect information in the ground school manuals...lear simulator acts like a piston twin as opposed to a jet with engines mounted on the fuse when you loose an engine. Pay the extra $2k and go to Simuflite or Flight safety.
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Some operators use part times and many do not. Especially ones who work for another air carrier. Mostly due to flight/duty time issues. Some FSDO's have a major issue with that. Charter/Corporate pilots may look longingly on having a REAL schedule, many like myself, like the varity of this portion of the industry.
The biggest problem you will have is that you will need to have a relationship with a charter operator BEFORE you get your training. The FAA no longer does contractor based training on a waiver basis. With the advent of Part 142 it is different OpSpec and the Training Facility trains to the Operator's training program. And the Chief Pilot or Dir of Ops will need to approve the training prior to the commencement of training. While you do not need to do the company training prior to going to the Training Facility, most operators will want it completed prior to going. Plus you will have to go to the facility(s) approved in their OpSpecs. So you may not have much choice there.
Like Gulfstream said, DO NOT prostitute yourself.
Also think about recurrent. How are you going to do and pay for that? Will you get enough flying to pay for it?
The biggest problem you will have is that you will need to have a relationship with a charter operator BEFORE you get your training. The FAA no longer does contractor based training on a waiver basis. With the advent of Part 142 it is different OpSpec and the Training Facility trains to the Operator's training program. And the Chief Pilot or Dir of Ops will need to approve the training prior to the commencement of training. While you do not need to do the company training prior to going to the Training Facility, most operators will want it completed prior to going. Plus you will have to go to the facility(s) approved in their OpSpecs. So you may not have much choice there.
Like Gulfstream said, DO NOT prostitute yourself.
Also think about recurrent. How are you going to do and pay for that? Will you get enough flying to pay for it?
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Simuflite has the best lear program, in my opinion. A lot of folks do FSI, too.
Four hundred a day is probably close to the average I've seen for a Lear 35 pilot, but if you can get more, then by all means, do.
Four hundred a day is probably close to the average I've seen for a Lear 35 pilot, but if you can get more, then by all means, do.
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Thank You
Gentleman--
Your advice has been invaluable....Thank you very much. It is "capture and print" for your posts. And yes, I agree, no undercutting....If anything, I'd like to see pilots stairstep the pay. Even at $500 a day, they are getting a deal on a flight hour basis. Anything else you can think of, feel free to add to the thread.
Your advice has been invaluable....Thank you very much. It is "capture and print" for your posts. And yes, I agree, no undercutting....If anything, I'd like to see pilots stairstep the pay. Even at $500 a day, they are getting a deal on a flight hour basis. Anything else you can think of, feel free to add to the thread.
