Your favourite Ag Aircraft?
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Your favourite Ag Aircraft?
What is your favourite Ag aircraft out of the ones being flown on "Ag" or "airwork" at the moment & why is it your favourite?
Explain the type of work you do, eg cotton, rice, broadacre, super, baiting, oil spill, fires, survey, seeding, day or night, sugar cane spraying, forestry etc etc.
I like the S2R-34DC Ayres Thrush as an allrounder(except on super). I have done rice, cotton, broadacre, super.
Explain the type of work you do, eg cotton, rice, broadacre, super, baiting, oil spill, fires, survey, seeding, day or night, sugar cane spraying, forestry etc etc.
I like the S2R-34DC Ayres Thrush as an allrounder(except on super). I have done rice, cotton, broadacre, super.
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It hasn't been invented yet.
But I envisage it will be equiped with a jacuzzi, dancing girls and a well stocked bar.
Errr... and me flying it
This ought to be an interesting thread!
But I envisage it will be equiped with a jacuzzi, dancing girls and a well stocked bar.
Errr... and me flying it
This ought to be an interesting thread!
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The Very Best
With my varied experience from the 150 Pawnee to the Clumbersome 8, you still cannot beat the S2R-G10. The range of Thrush Aircraft are the safest, deliver the most uniform of spray patterns and are the most pleasurable to fly of all. The G-10 range are faster than the 8 and only slightly behind in productivity. If you happen to jump back into a 5 typically a comparable aircraft you quickly remember your sagwagon days. Take a look at the following:
Thrush models currently produced have been flight tested and structurally substantiated to the following weights (without restrictions): S2R-T660 at 12,500 pounds, and the S2RHG-550 at 10,500 pounds. (Note that the S2RHG-550 gross weight will be raised in the current year to 11,500 pounds.)
By contrast, certain of our competitor’s aircraft have been certified without restrictions to the following weights: AT802 at 12,500 pounds; AT 602 at 9,200 pounds and AT 502 at 8,000 pounds.
However, attention should be called, to the fact that brochures published by AT and the flight manual and FAA Type Data Sheets for these aircraft show the operational gross weight to be 16,000 lbs. for the 802, 12,500 lbs. for the 602 and 9,700 lbs. for the 502!
While these ambitious numbers appear to give an advantage to these three aircraft, their flight manuals, call for significant airspeed limitations, and G load reductions when operations are conducted in an over load condition.
As an example, in the Flight Manual for the 802, the following appears: The “…never exceed speed at 12,500 lbs or less is 222 mph IAS”. The flight manual continues to say: “… at weights above 12,500 lbs, the never exceed” speed is 162 mph IAS….”or a 60 mph reduction!
The flight load factor limit of the 802 at 12,500 lbs is 3.25; and, at 16,000 lbs, the flight load factor is 2.54 – thus not complying with FAA’s formula as required in FAR 23, sec. 23.337. Similar non-compliance with FAA’s FAR 23, sec. 23.337 applies to the other aircraft.
Though this conflicting data leads to significant confusion on the part of the reader, it is Thrush Aircraft’s carefully considered opinion that fatigue cracking is really a very simple issue to understand and address.
For these reasons we at Thrush firmly believe we build the strongest, least expensive- to-operate and safest airplanes offered today.
We at Thrush challenge our friendly competitor to follow our lead of focusing on safety, reliability and low operating costs as we continue to develop tomorrow’s aircraft for the Ag Industry.
Thrush models currently produced have been flight tested and structurally substantiated to the following weights (without restrictions): S2R-T660 at 12,500 pounds, and the S2RHG-550 at 10,500 pounds. (Note that the S2RHG-550 gross weight will be raised in the current year to 11,500 pounds.)
By contrast, certain of our competitor’s aircraft have been certified without restrictions to the following weights: AT802 at 12,500 pounds; AT 602 at 9,200 pounds and AT 502 at 8,000 pounds.
However, attention should be called, to the fact that brochures published by AT and the flight manual and FAA Type Data Sheets for these aircraft show the operational gross weight to be 16,000 lbs. for the 802, 12,500 lbs. for the 602 and 9,700 lbs. for the 502!
While these ambitious numbers appear to give an advantage to these three aircraft, their flight manuals, call for significant airspeed limitations, and G load reductions when operations are conducted in an over load condition.
As an example, in the Flight Manual for the 802, the following appears: The “…never exceed speed at 12,500 lbs or less is 222 mph IAS”. The flight manual continues to say: “… at weights above 12,500 lbs, the never exceed” speed is 162 mph IAS….”or a 60 mph reduction!
The flight load factor limit of the 802 at 12,500 lbs is 3.25; and, at 16,000 lbs, the flight load factor is 2.54 – thus not complying with FAA’s formula as required in FAR 23, sec. 23.337. Similar non-compliance with FAA’s FAR 23, sec. 23.337 applies to the other aircraft.
Though this conflicting data leads to significant confusion on the part of the reader, it is Thrush Aircraft’s carefully considered opinion that fatigue cracking is really a very simple issue to understand and address.
Simply stated, the more you overload an aircraft, the faster fatigue cracking takes place -- thus shortening the wing life.
We at Thrush Aircraft, Inc have and will continue to adhere to the policy of complying with FAA’s formula FAR 23, sec. 23.337 and structurally substantiate all models of aircraft that we produce to the maximum gross weight that the aircraft will operate -- with zero restrictions on airspeed and G loads.For these reasons we at Thrush firmly believe we build the strongest, least expensive- to-operate and safest airplanes offered today.
We at Thrush challenge our friendly competitor to follow our lead of focusing on safety, reliability and low operating costs as we continue to develop tomorrow’s aircraft for the Ag Industry.
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Raver Ravings
You make some interesting points, I too have worked the Pawnee, which is a good little ride, I agree the 5 is nothing special. The G10 is a great machine, it is handy to have a rental engine at the ready however & they need a rudder trim, the G10 is NOT faster then an 802 or any where near as productive. The 802 is clumbersome to the inexperenced pilot. When you get used to them they are not clumbersome, they are just like a big Thrush to fly, even the G10 seems gutless after you have sat in an 802 for a while.
Last edited by M18bloke; 18th Mar 2006 at 12:13.
Currawong you smarty pants
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the best
the cherokee six , can't think of any plane as productive doing hairy buffel seeding
the ag wagon might be the pick of the small ones except for the cessna 180
a 502 on the rice is hard to beat
a G10 thrush for spraying is a mean machine (and sounds like it) may be a thrush with a PT6 -45
the 802 for the big acres
the turbine drom , carries a big load and burns less fuel ( i suppose it has to , not real big fuel tanks )
the ag wagon might be the pick of the small ones except for the cessna 180
a 502 on the rice is hard to beat
a G10 thrush for spraying is a mean machine (and sounds like it) may be a thrush with a PT6 -45
the 802 for the big acres
the turbine drom , carries a big load and burns less fuel ( i suppose it has to , not real big fuel tanks )
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Mr M18 bloke may I suggest you apologise to Currawong for your outburst as he has been a valuable contributer to these forums for quite a few years ( 485 posts) and most likely flown more Ag' machinery than you or I ever will.
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Originally Posted by airag3
Mr M18 bloke may I suggest you apologise to Currawong for your outburst as he has been a valuable contributer to these forums for quite a few years ( 485 posts) and most likely flown more Ag' machinery than you or I ever will.
I have flown most small pistons and the range of Turbine Thrush and Air Tractors and I think my favourite for handling characteristics and rock solid stability is the S2R-34 500 gal Thrush. It's quicker than a 502, lower profile and flys hands off.
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So you don't like my angle on fatigue management?
Fair Enough
I (incorrectly) anticipated this thread would turn into a Ford/Holden type pi$$ing competition that would get nasty quickly as with the "Dromader Question" thread.
So, if in attempting to steer posts in a more friendly direction I have offended anyone, then you have a full and unreserved apology.
Fair Enough
I (incorrectly) anticipated this thread would turn into a Ford/Holden type pi$$ing competition that would get nasty quickly as with the "Dromader Question" thread.
So, if in attempting to steer posts in a more friendly direction I have offended anyone, then you have a full and unreserved apology.
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airag 1+1+1=airag3
Perhaps you would like to start a new thread on what you have flown for how many hours airag3.
But then again dear old Currawong may worry that the thread turns into a Ford/Holden caper.
But then again dear old Currawong may worry that the thread turns into a Ford/Holden caper.
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your favourite Ag Aircraft
My Favourite Hands down - 1450Hp Thrush S2R-1820 not the Bull Thrush Built by the factory - too heavy but a originial 600 light frame thrush modified with Wright R-1820-76 engine by Serv-Aero, 400gal hopper,100 gals of fuel,extwings,v/g's, 33D50 prop, :- It out performs everything else:- will haul 400gals of liquid fert @11lbs per gal,200lb pilot,18gals of oil,100gals avgas,for AUW of 10,500lbs out of a 2000ft grass strip allday in 96F temps and you can even leave the load hose attached it will rip the hose lose and trail all 40ftof hose(a hungover co-worker found this out one morning, the ground crew all had cardiac arrests
,still if flew ) behind the aircraft and still climb at 600-800ft a min,
Will out work in our environment all other aircraft be it Ag-Cat,KingCat, Weatherley, AT802,AT602,AT501,AT-402,S-2R-T65,T34,G10,M-18, Drom-T45, sure it burns 136gals an hr at max takeoff @45" but it will haul anything you can fit into the hopper, best performing ag aircraft, i have ever flown, great hot, and high performance, sadly after operating them for over 23yrs the cost of avgas has made the economics unfeasible, now operate second best in my opinion 1980 Ayres S-2R -T34 w/ 400gal hopper, fabric tail,extwings, v/g's,100gals of gas and basic empty weight of 3800lbs it still is no Viper1200 but i'll make due Due to the terrain here in Jamaica, we need the climb performance being surrounded by 2-7000ft mountains hence light overpowered aircraft with the abillity to turn!!! have worked 510galthrushes (t-34,45,65,G6,G10,R1820) never ever had to use flaps on them still tad too heavy for the mountainous terrain , can say the same for the AT series, dont get me wrong I love ol Leland,but the AT series doesnt cut it for most of the ops in the banana world, then again most operators here(Caribbean,Lat Am) are partial to the Thrush because of how well it was designed by Leland, and the fact that CropCulture UK ltd operated them in 39 countries and had purchased a couple sets of factory jigs from leland, kind influenced the market to the Thrush, He fondly remembers our company pestering him to build an 1820 powered At-401, with his usual reply:- i've lightened the 401 so much that engine will shake the airframe to bits on it first flight
Worst I have ever flown AT-301 w Ag-1 prop and orginial short rudder a real dawg
, Leland made some great airplanes but, the 301,401 are flatland aircraft, i see that he met his design goals a lighter, better performing aircraft with the ability to haul more on less Hp- the only way to do that lightenen the airframe and optimise the wing , but with as with most operators working bananas we stick with the Thrush, more stable ie cadillac; vs sporty ie corvette AT series, I'd rather crash in a Thrush than anyother Ag-type im baised i guess, never written one off came close
, made a couple of off-field landings,hit the odd tree, marker, etc.
Enjoy turbine reliability, miss the rumble of a round engine, the cool blue flame on an early morn dep- dont miss the amount of times that Damn 1820 tried to kill me, but to its credit i have never had a engine fail to make power even while spitting chunks of the internals out the exhaust, always had enough to make it to a realitively safe landing site;a company pilot flew for 25mins on 6 broken conrods; the only way you knew a jug had blown was you need 1" more manifold pressure, on a 1340 you'd be dumping the load and praying to make it back before it quit.
The all time worst Ag Aircraft never flew it but is the general consensus among my associates worldwide is Eagle DW-1/EA-1
,still if flew ) behind the aircraft and still climb at 600-800ft a min, Will out work in our environment all other aircraft be it Ag-Cat,KingCat, Weatherley, AT802,AT602,AT501,AT-402,S-2R-T65,T34,G10,M-18, Drom-T45, sure it burns 136gals an hr at max takeoff @45" but it will haul anything you can fit into the hopper, best performing ag aircraft, i have ever flown, great hot, and high performance, sadly after operating them for over 23yrs the cost of avgas has made the economics unfeasible, now operate second best in my opinion 1980 Ayres S-2R -T34 w/ 400gal hopper, fabric tail,extwings, v/g's,100gals of gas and basic empty weight of 3800lbs it still is no Viper1200 but i'll make due
Due to the terrain here in Jamaica, we need the climb performance being surrounded by 2-7000ft mountains hence light overpowered aircraft with the abillity to turn!!! have worked 510galthrushes (t-34,45,65,G6,G10,R1820) never ever had to use flaps on them still tad too heavy for the mountainous terrain , can say the same for the AT series, dont get me wrong I love ol Leland,but the AT series doesnt cut it for most of the ops in the banana world, then again most operators here(Caribbean,Lat Am) are partial to the Thrush because of how well it was designed by Leland, and the fact that CropCulture UK ltd operated them in 39 countries and had purchased a couple sets of factory jigs from leland, kind influenced the market to the Thrush, He fondly remembers our company pestering him to build an 1820 powered At-401, with his usual reply:- i've lightened the 401 so much that engine will shake the airframe to bits on it first flightWorst I have ever flown AT-301 w Ag-1 prop and orginial short rudder a real dawg
, Leland made some great airplanes but, the 301,401 are flatland aircraft, i see that he met his design goals a lighter, better performing aircraft with the ability to haul more on less Hp- the only way to do that lightenen the airframe and optimise the wing , but with as with most operators working bananas we stick with the Thrush, more stable ie cadillac; vs sporty ie corvette AT series, I'd rather crash in a Thrush than anyother Ag-type im baised i guess, never written one off came close, made a couple of off-field landings,hit the odd tree, marker, etc.Enjoy turbine reliability, miss the rumble of a round engine, the cool blue flame on an early morn dep- dont miss the amount of times that Damn 1820 tried to kill me, but to its credit i have never had a engine fail to make power even while spitting chunks of the internals out the exhaust, always had enough to make it to a realitively safe landing site;a company pilot flew for 25mins on 6 broken conrods; the only way you knew a jug had blown was you need 1" more manifold pressure, on a 1340 you'd be dumping the load and praying to make it back before it quit.
The all time worst Ag Aircraft never flew it but is the general consensus among my associates worldwide is Eagle DW-1/EA-1
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Favourite Ag -aircraft
As stated due to the mountainous terrain one cannot effectively haul 800 gals unless your planning runs over 1/2 mile very few farms have runs over 1 mile in fact i can only think of 1 and it has 7200 ft mountains on the northside and narrows into a bottle neck then the aircraft is to heavy to maneouver, and is effectively limited to approx 500 gals, hence wasted capacity, Go to AG-airupdate.com website , the article on our ops in jamaica is listed in Aug or Sept 97, with pics, After over 40yrs of aerial spraying here We know our conditions,newbies come in with Heavy iron ie At-802,Drom, - those aircraft are flatland high volume work, hence a 400gal overpowed light aircraft will out perform and out work other aircraft its a climbing and turning environment, question for you whats the turn radius of a loaded 802 and how much would you attempt to haul when your very first run is into a box canyon at the bottom of a 2000ft valley, and you need to climb a min of 600 feet so you can reverse the turn and not hit the other valley wall. We arent working in the horizontal with gobs of space to complete the p-turn, terrain dictates that i work in the vertical plane , start my dive at 600ft agl keep my speedup to convert it back to Altitude so i dont hit the terrain. Additionally i rarely do Firebombing where i can dump everthing in one pass i do ULV work on bananas 1-3 gals per acre, how many runs do think i would need to get out 800gals plus to have to fight that heavy pig around the mountains, better to spilt it into 400gal loads I work faster cause im more manueoverable. Have the same problem with Sugar and rice, bought a couple 510 gal thrushes 5500lbs BOW new in the 1990's allthe bells and whistles, for Fertilizing and Rice, and guess what we gained by hauling the extra 110 gals i lost in tiptoeing around the terrain.
FOR ME AND OUR OPERATIONS a 400gal Airplane is the best aircraft for the job, hence with the demise of the 1820's we bought early light frame thrushes with less than 3600TTAE and new -34's which in my conditions will out perform any larger capacity aircraft. If you're ever on my side of the world feel free to drop in i'll show you my reality and the fact that an overpowered 400gal can out work a 800gal ship.
FOR ME AND OUR OPERATIONS a 400gal Airplane is the best aircraft for the job, hence with the demise of the 1820's we bought early light frame thrushes with less than 3600TTAE and new -34's which in my conditions will out perform any larger capacity aircraft. If you're ever on my side of the world feel free to drop in i'll show you my reality and the fact that an overpowered 400gal can out work a 800gal ship.