Small aircraft operation - AOC query

[dllcooper]

Dear sirs (and dames) - following up on previous posts regarding a potential single aircraft operation private/lease.

Having had very preliminary positive feedback for us to join our aircraft onto another operators AOC, i wonder if anybody could give me some thoughts on one remaining problem.

Partners etc.. have decided they would like a 2 pilot operation for safety reasons. I was hoping to use this oppurtunity for me to gain hours as first officer(after qualifying with ATPL etc.. next year), with captain (contract or permanent), flying alongside until such time as my hours are far more substantial.

Could somebody offer advice as to whether this would be possible. I presume it depends entirely on what is stated in a potential operator's AOC specification.

Things hinge on this factor so general thoughts on this are gladly recieved.

All the best - David Cooper

[J32/41]

I cant see why not, if you are fully qualified and type rated there shouldn't be a problem. I know of F/O's who got 737 jobs with little more than 250 hrs.

If you don't mind me asking whats involved in getting an aircraft on someone else's AOC?

Thanks

[jester42]

Hi David,
I'm a little rusty on the regulations so please check with the C.A.A. Flight Ops.
If the aircraft you obtain is certified as Single Pilot then both pilots cannot both log flight time.
However, I believe that if the A.O.C. has 2 Pilot S.O.P.'s for the aircraft, then you have a case to log the flight time. Of course, you would need to go through the hoops in the rhs first for Public Transport.

With reference to another thread of yours, you need to check with the insurance company what their minimum requirements are.
Hours are little indication of ability. 4000 hours in a spam can will not prepare you for lhs IFR in Europe with a rookie helping out (no disrespect).
I would suggest looking for someone who has at least experience of operating in a few European countries IFR.
IMHO a large amount of multi hours is not necessary, so someone with close to 100 multi should be fine if they are quality hours.
Operating on someone else's AOC has it's drawback. You cannot sneeze without their say-so.
Best wishes on your endeavours.

[Malcolm G O Payne]

AOC Query

The AOC holders should be operating the same type as yourself or you will face the expense of having a maintenance schedule prepared and approved for your aircraft. In addition it will have to be written into the AOC holders Operations Manual and the CAA will have to approve it. If you wish to PM me I may be able to give you some further guidance.

[READY MESSAGE]

There is no problem in putting your aircraft on someone elses AOC, it gives you an income from the aircraft whilst you remain priority for your requirements. It's easy especially if the AOC operator already has the type on its AOC so there is no need to start writing sections to manuals.

The C421 is a single pilot aircraft, so no co-pilot is required. However, if you want to run it as a 2 crew operation then that's up to you, but anyone occupying the right hand seat would not be able to log that time or use it towards the issue of the ATPL (to meet the 500 hour multi pilot time). You can change that by having a set of multi pilot SOPs written up in the ops manual, if you do that then the co-pilot can log the time and use it towards an ATPL. The ATPL cannot be issued though until a multi pilot type rating is added to your licence. You may struggle to find an AOC operator with the C421 & C421 multi pilot SOPs & who's willing to share their AOC

It's a bit of a minefield, any questions feel free to PM me.

Regards

[MDF]

Out of interest, what's the definative guide to AOC requirements these days? Seem to remember the ANO just used to have a vague statement about meeting the requirements of the CAA but gave no details!!??