Citation Crash in California

[westhawk]

I thought the speed restrictions for aircraft under 10000ft was 250knots?

That is true. Knots INDICATED airspeed (KIAS). On an ISA day at 8,000' MSL, 250 KIAS translates to about 290 KTAS. Add or subtract the effect of wind on groundspeed and it is not all that uncommon to see well more than 300 kts groundspeed while indicating 250. ATC RADAR equipment displays groundspeed. Experienced controllers become quite adept at assigning specific IAS to aircraft at differing altitudes to establish in trail separation for sequencing. The ability to see the correlation between assigned or reported IAS or mach number and RADAR groundspeed allows them to use speed control effectively to do their job.

can this site really be used as evidence....

In a word.... NO. NTSB investigators will analyze the recorded ATC RADAR data to determine the flightpath of the aircraft as it approached the airport. Flightaware uses the very same data as ATC, but is subject to a slower update rate and some data display errors, particularily in congested airspace. I have reviewed many of my own IFR flights using this site and found the track log to be fairly accurate when compared with my own recollections if the occasional anomalous track log entry is disregarded. So while I would not consider it evidence per se, I would consider the Flightaware track data to be one indication of a rather high speed and rate of descent during the minutes leading up to the accident. I would consider the eyewitness accounts to be another. What little is known so far only points to some of the circumstances and cannot be used to draw any solid conclusions as to the cause or even to fully describe the accident sequence. That will be revealed in due time. Hopefully, the CVR data recovered will be of good enough quality to provide some indication of what was going on in the cockpit as well as provide some audio indication of engine RPMs etc.. As always, what you read here regarding recent accidents is by definition speculation. It is up to the reader to decide how informed and plausible that speculation may or may not be and to what degree factual data are used to support any suppositions made.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[mjtibbs]

thx for that

[smallfry]

Have the crew names been released? I have heard it could be someone I know who used to fly in Africa (Kenya late 90's). Anyone able to confirm that much at least... I don't need names if that much can be verified... Thanks

[westhawk]

AP wire report

smallfry:

I hope the following AP news wire report will answer your query one way or the other.

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KHQ-TV
Carlsbad, CA - Authorities are investigating why a twin-engine business jet from southern Idaho crashed and burst into flames near a Carlsbad, CA airport Tuesday morning, killing all four people on board. One victim of the Tuesday morning crash was identified as 60-year-old Frank Jellinek Jr., chairman emeritus of Fisher Scientific International of New Hampshire.

Authorities are waiting for dental records to officially confirm the identities of the other three victims but Sun Valley Aviation General Manager Melidee Wright told the Wood River Journal that the others were pilot Jack Francis, co-pilot Andy Garrett and Janet Shafran. Shafran, of Ketchum, Idaho, is the wife of one of the aircraft's registered owners.

The Cessna 560 Citation crashed about 6:40 a.m. after a flight from Friedman Memorial Airport in Hailey, Idaho, near the Sun Valley ski resort. It's not yet known why the plane crashed. Officials say weather did not appear to be a factor.

(from AP wire report).

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Best regards,

Westhawk

[smallfry]

Thanks Westhawk, sadly it did.

[westhawk]

Sorry to hear that smallfry.

Best,

Westhawk