Twin corporate required
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: A Marriott somewhere
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Single pilot ops.
Dear SSG:
It appears to me that you have limited experience operating in the European/Russian environment which is what is being discussed. I used to fly King-Airs and Piston ME in the US all the time. I would not consider flying anything single pilot over here. My home base is UUWW, Vnoukovo, Moscow. Until you have a type rating in a swept wing jet and operating experience in Russia your opinions are without merit. I get it done thanks to a good copilot. It would be pretty unsafe to run single pilot around here.
Ever wonder why people think people like you are A..holes?
I don't even know what being a plank is, anyone care to fill me in?
Sincerely,
DA50 Driver
Falcon 900, Falcon 50, Hawker, Citation 650 and the lowly CE-500 type ratings. Oh, and by the way, I am from the US.
It appears to me that you have limited experience operating in the European/Russian environment which is what is being discussed. I used to fly King-Airs and Piston ME in the US all the time. I would not consider flying anything single pilot over here. My home base is UUWW, Vnoukovo, Moscow. Until you have a type rating in a swept wing jet and operating experience in Russia your opinions are without merit. I get it done thanks to a good copilot. It would be pretty unsafe to run single pilot around here.
Ever wonder why people think people like you are A..holes?
I don't even know what being a plank is, anyone care to fill me in?
Sincerely,
DA50 Driver
Falcon 900, Falcon 50, Hawker, Citation 650 and the lowly CE-500 type ratings. Oh, and by the way, I am from the US.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europa
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Recommend: PC 12 or B200 - both have similar size cabins and can do it all - dirt strips to major airports. Just look at the companies that use these machines - MAF use PC12 in Sudan, UNDP use the King Air in Similar role. Most Flight inspection / Calibration aircraft wordlwide are King Airs - they are very well built and twin P&W engines are super reliable. B200 will attain F350 but beware of front screen cracking and water in fuel ice issues!
I think B200 operating cost is around 800 GBP per hour (excluding crew costs) - there are some 6000 examples worldwide so spares is no problem. C441 is faster with better range but less reliable and more cramped!
I think B200 operating cost is around 800 GBP per hour (excluding crew costs) - there are some 6000 examples worldwide so spares is no problem. C441 is faster with better range but less reliable and more cramped!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
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Single Pilot in Europ
Thanks 441. Yep, Conquest II is a good option, I flew the 425, only because I didn't want to hook up and APU and spin the props after each flight, but I like its range, speed and overall numbers. Good Choice!
DA50,
Most people, including aviation authorities, manufacturers, feel that having a copilot is a backup, just in case, not a neccessary function. You don't need a copilot to read a checklist, unless your illiterate, nor to put the gear down, unless your handicapped ...
CRM is a joke, always has been, something that came about after airliners started crashing with the FO telling the captain that they were too low, off course, ect, right before the scene of the accident. With the typical FO on probation, or could be fired at will for no cause, they would actualy hope the captain was right, right down to the thier deaths. Crazy to need a flying job that bad.
Anyway, I do have swept wing time...GIV, Astra SPX, Premier I, impressed? I'm not, two weeks sitting in a box only to go back to a hotel and restaurant food. Anyone can get a type rating, either show up with a credit card or get a rich guy to foot the bill. Not an exclusive club.
While I may vociferous in my support of single pilot ops, I don't feel that two pilot crews are without merit. It's just that in most typical crews you have one guy with the time, and type, and many times the right seater is really light on time and experience, so where's the help? Pouring the coffee? Doing the charts? Ever been up in the air and heard an airliner on the radio and it sounds like a 12 yr old girl sitting up there? I am sure the captain wonders the same, but that's affirmative action for you.
So anyone who feels that a two pilot crew are really the way to go should be able to show me where all the single pilot exempters are crashing, but you wont, they never have.
I talk to crews all the time, and rarely have seen the true redundency, both pilots with real credentials with the weight to take over the aircraft and have the moxy to prove that the other is screwing up and save the passengers..rather then the typical setup we see these days...a typed captain and a lightweight FO who is along for the ride.
Cant tell you how many guys I talk to, who bitch about single pilot ops, only to tell me they run with one set of charts, sometimes with the FO the one telling the capt the numbers...very dangerous, or guys so light on time that when you ask them a simple question they have no clue, so much less are able to tell the experienced captain they are screwing up.
What's really scary? Is guys like you that NEED a copilot, and admit it to everyone. Tell that to your passengers and see the look on thier faces, take pic, we can post it here.
Your premise that single pilot ops can't be done is Europe is moot because it's done all the time, you and I both know it, your just not comfy with it.
None the less your entitled to your opinion, and I respect the fact that you recognize your limitations in that you need someone up in the air with you, that's good, I hope your copilot is as good as you say he is.
-SSG
DA50,
Most people, including aviation authorities, manufacturers, feel that having a copilot is a backup, just in case, not a neccessary function. You don't need a copilot to read a checklist, unless your illiterate, nor to put the gear down, unless your handicapped ...
CRM is a joke, always has been, something that came about after airliners started crashing with the FO telling the captain that they were too low, off course, ect, right before the scene of the accident. With the typical FO on probation, or could be fired at will for no cause, they would actualy hope the captain was right, right down to the thier deaths. Crazy to need a flying job that bad.
Anyway, I do have swept wing time...GIV, Astra SPX, Premier I, impressed? I'm not, two weeks sitting in a box only to go back to a hotel and restaurant food. Anyone can get a type rating, either show up with a credit card or get a rich guy to foot the bill. Not an exclusive club.
While I may vociferous in my support of single pilot ops, I don't feel that two pilot crews are without merit. It's just that in most typical crews you have one guy with the time, and type, and many times the right seater is really light on time and experience, so where's the help? Pouring the coffee? Doing the charts? Ever been up in the air and heard an airliner on the radio and it sounds like a 12 yr old girl sitting up there? I am sure the captain wonders the same, but that's affirmative action for you.
So anyone who feels that a two pilot crew are really the way to go should be able to show me where all the single pilot exempters are crashing, but you wont, they never have.
I talk to crews all the time, and rarely have seen the true redundency, both pilots with real credentials with the weight to take over the aircraft and have the moxy to prove that the other is screwing up and save the passengers..rather then the typical setup we see these days...a typed captain and a lightweight FO who is along for the ride.
Cant tell you how many guys I talk to, who bitch about single pilot ops, only to tell me they run with one set of charts, sometimes with the FO the one telling the capt the numbers...very dangerous, or guys so light on time that when you ask them a simple question they have no clue, so much less are able to tell the experienced captain they are screwing up.
What's really scary? Is guys like you that NEED a copilot, and admit it to everyone. Tell that to your passengers and see the look on thier faces, take pic, we can post it here.
Your premise that single pilot ops can't be done is Europe is moot because it's done all the time, you and I both know it, your just not comfy with it.
None the less your entitled to your opinion, and I respect the fact that you recognize your limitations in that you need someone up in the air with you, that's good, I hope your copilot is as good as you say he is.
-SSG
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
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ssg
You obviously consider yourself 'Ace of the Base' but there will always be people better informed and more experienced than ourselves.
The best operators I know are generally the more modest ones.
I have flown airliners for quite a long time now but until very recently did not know anyone who was killed in a Jet transport a/c. As an ignorant youngster I flew single crew night freight in Beech King Airs' for one year and two colleagues were killed in seperate accidents in that time,one of them a close friend.
Turbine two crew and quality training would be my requirement.
(BTW Quality training cannot be assumed at big name establishments IMO)
We are never as clever as we think.
You obviously consider yourself 'Ace of the Base' but there will always be people better informed and more experienced than ourselves.
The best operators I know are generally the more modest ones.
I have flown airliners for quite a long time now but until very recently did not know anyone who was killed in a Jet transport a/c. As an ignorant youngster I flew single crew night freight in Beech King Airs' for one year and two colleagues were killed in seperate accidents in that time,one of them a close friend.
Turbine two crew and quality training would be my requirement.
(BTW Quality training cannot be assumed at big name establishments IMO)
We are never as clever as we think.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
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ssg, the day I NEED a copilot I will quit. BUT, I sometimes screw up things and I´m EXTREMELY thankful to have a backup with me. And I don´t have a problem to admit that. (most of my passengers know that I´m a human being)
we have a saying over here:
if you don´t make mistakes you´re either a liar or you´re not a pilot.
we have a saying over here:
if you don´t make mistakes you´re either a liar or you´re not a pilot.
Thread Starter
There's been some useful input into the thread - and some complete drival!!
You folks bitchin and pissin about having a co-pilot, pi55 off and start your own thread!
Spent many hours flying with and without - it;s not about operational efficiency or about safety or about qudos - it's all about who's going to buy the first beer at your next port of call and the fact that you'll not be having dinner at that sad table for one restaurant:-)
Looking at some J32/B200s whilst over in FLA having a 'Happy Holiday' (now there's a topic for another thread!!) - just got to find the time between waffles and cwouiffffey!
Happy Holidays!!
You folks bitchin and pissin about having a co-pilot, pi55 off and start your own thread!
Spent many hours flying with and without - it;s not about operational efficiency or about safety or about qudos - it's all about who's going to buy the first beer at your next port of call and the fact that you'll not be having dinner at that sad table for one restaurant:-)
Looking at some J32/B200s whilst over in FLA having a 'Happy Holiday' (now there's a topic for another thread!!) - just got to find the time between waffles and cwouiffffey!
Happy Holidays!!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a good pub (I wish!)
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EESDL:
Perhaps (once you've managed to get your boss to stump up the money and buy a DC3 for the short strip work and a BBJ for the rest of the job) you can let us know what you get and how you're getting on, and which, if any, AOC operator is helping you. By PM if appropriate.
Good luck and Merry Christmas
Perhaps (once you've managed to get your boss to stump up the money and buy a DC3 for the short strip work and a BBJ for the rest of the job) you can let us know what you get and how you're getting on, and which, if any, AOC operator is helping you. By PM if appropriate.
Good luck and Merry Christmas
