Sion Switzerland LSGS
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Sion Switzerland LSGS
Hello all.
Whats involved in getting "The training" to make the approach IFR.
Who? How? and how long......and how much???? can it be done at FSi?
Thankyou for any replys
Whats involved in getting "The training" to make the approach IFR.
Who? How? and how long......and how much???? can it be done at FSi?
Thankyou for any replys
I dont have the Sion procedures to hand. But it does depend on whether you are going in private or public transport.
Going in private you have to comply with the published procedure which will list the requirements.
Going in public transport you will also have to get your own airfiled Cat C brief approved by the Campaign Against Aviation. If you are PTR your Ops manager will know how to do this.
You can do the training at the airfield in VMC or in a simulator with adequate visuals. FSI can do this but I am not sure whether Paris is approved. The sim must be one of the CAA approved ones for this particular airfield. This is all about the visuals being good enough. The training approaches should idealy be done in a sim of the type you are flying into sion but it is not essential. You can do it in another type. The most important thing is the visual recce of the topography and to practice the procedure.
Whatever you do, do it carefully!
MM
Going in private you have to comply with the published procedure which will list the requirements.
Going in public transport you will also have to get your own airfiled Cat C brief approved by the Campaign Against Aviation. If you are PTR your Ops manager will know how to do this.
You can do the training at the airfield in VMC or in a simulator with adequate visuals. FSI can do this but I am not sure whether Paris is approved. The sim must be one of the CAA approved ones for this particular airfield. This is all about the visuals being good enough. The training approaches should idealy be done in a sim of the type you are flying into sion but it is not essential. You can do it in another type. The most important thing is the visual recce of the topography and to practice the procedure.
Whatever you do, do it carefully!
MM
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Good question.
G-Spots Lost, hope you dont mind me asking, but your question brings to mind what is required to go into London City, another approaches that I believe both pilot and plane need to be approved to fly into.
I know that London City has a website (sorry don't have the address on this computer), which honestly I have not looked at for some time, but maybe Sion has a site as well?? Regardless, last I remeber was that the site did make mention of what was required, but did not specify how to get the requirements.
Anyone out there that might have an answer for us?
Thanks,
Joe
G-Spots Lost, hope you dont mind me asking, but your question brings to mind what is required to go into London City, another approaches that I believe both pilot and plane need to be approved to fly into.
I know that London City has a website (sorry don't have the address on this computer), which honestly I have not looked at for some time, but maybe Sion has a site as well?? Regardless, last I remeber was that the site did make mention of what was required, but did not specify how to get the requirements.
Anyone out there that might have an answer for us?
Thanks,
Joe
Joe,
You read the procedures, devise your own training programme, submit it to the CAA. Then once the CAA have approved it you do the training and forward your approval with the completed training record to LCY. LCY then approve each pilot to go there.
MM
You read the procedures, devise your own training programme, submit it to the CAA. Then once the CAA have approved it you do the training and forward your approval with the completed training record to LCY. LCY then approve each pilot to go there.
MM
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We are N tail and of course private. On the aerads it mentions the "Training" and that the airport authority should be contacted for provision etc
The MDA for the Non "Training Equipped" "VFR" approach is 8000 and this comes down with apprroval depending on climb gradient etc.
We do LCY and I was just curious what the training consisted off and how it would be provided at Sion, not in the sim in a two crew aircraft.
Was in there recently in good wx and saw the Flybe check in desks and was wondering how they get the "training" boxes ticked.
The MDA for the Non "Training Equipped" "VFR" approach is 8000 and this comes down with apprroval depending on climb gradient etc.
We do LCY and I was just curious what the training consisted off and how it would be provided at Sion, not in the sim in a two crew aircraft.
Was in there recently in good wx and saw the Flybe check in desks and was wondering how they get the "training" boxes ticked.
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I did the training a few years ago when I was flying a citation for an owner who had a house nearby.
It consisted of getting hold of a certain Monsieur Cholet (who did not appear to be a womble), and doing one IGS approach followed by a couple of visual circuits. The purpose of the visuals was to point out the landmarks to use in the event of a circle for 08 or a visual go-around too low to do the instrument missed approach procedure in poor conditions.
He was concerned that I had done all the performance calculations for the missed approach gradients properly - don't forget that you have to maintain those gradients to 12000 feet!
The outcome of it was to convince me that I didn't want to go in there if the conditions were much below the high minima!!
In the end, though, I think it was a waste of time and money, because in a year after that of going there regularly I never used the lower minima. The weather was always either gin clear or totally out.
But it's the most amazing place and I love going there - have fun
It consisted of getting hold of a certain Monsieur Cholet (who did not appear to be a womble), and doing one IGS approach followed by a couple of visual circuits. The purpose of the visuals was to point out the landmarks to use in the event of a circle for 08 or a visual go-around too low to do the instrument missed approach procedure in poor conditions.
He was concerned that I had done all the performance calculations for the missed approach gradients properly - don't forget that you have to maintain those gradients to 12000 feet!
The outcome of it was to convince me that I didn't want to go in there if the conditions were much below the high minima!!
In the end, though, I think it was a waste of time and money, because in a year after that of going there regularly I never used the lower minima. The weather was always either gin clear or totally out.
But it's the most amazing place and I love going there - have fun
Sorry Guys, I am not sure why you bother to ask as there is a far easier way of getting to Sion. Just get a job with Netjets as they go there under JAR OPS 1 with absolutely no training or briefing whatsoever!!! It must be legal or they wouldn`t do it would they????
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I have been a professional pilot for 10 years and I fly for Netjets. I fly on my license, not a license belonging to Netjets, so if I go to Sion I go when the weather is above minima or I go to Geneva, as simple as that.
Why would anyone go to a mountainous airport in bad weather illegally when Geneva is only an hour’s drive away? The best way to get in the sh1t in Lisbon is to break the rules and compromise safety.
Why would anyone go to a mountainous airport in bad weather illegally when Geneva is only an hour’s drive away? The best way to get in the sh1t in Lisbon is to break the rules and compromise safety.
Good for you Crab Fat.
My point however was that Netjets roster crews to fly into Sion, a Cat C airfield that requires specific crew training, without any consideration for those regulations. Getting in the sh1t at HQ only requires NOT doing what you are told and that includes expressing oneself of the regulations.
My point however was that Netjets roster crews to fly into Sion, a Cat C airfield that requires specific crew training, without any consideration for those regulations. Getting in the sh1t at HQ only requires NOT doing what you are told and that includes expressing oneself of the regulations.
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This is going back a few years to my previous company (so stand to be corrected!), but happyjack, I think that the training is needed only to use the lower IFR minima. We experienced all the weather options at Sion, did go-arounds at 8000' &/or diverted to Geneva.
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NETJETS is going there according to 8000 ceilling ...
CAT C airport have nothing to do with the highest minimas, like Chambery, Insbruck ... You can go there without training if you have the highest min.
If you want to use lower minimas then you need proper training and to prove it to the authorities according to the perf of your aircraft.
Private or Commercial have nothing to do with it as well, you won't be clear to kill yourself private !
FSI Paris have the Sion visu and training..
CAT C airport have nothing to do with the highest minimas, like Chambery, Insbruck ... You can go there without training if you have the highest min.
If you want to use lower minimas then you need proper training and to prove it to the authorities according to the perf of your aircraft.
Private or Commercial have nothing to do with it as well, you won't be clear to kill yourself private !
FSI Paris have the Sion visu and training..
The rules allow lower minimums and performance departures AFTER completion of the course. Not all operators abide by these rules and do use the lower minima without the course being completed. A signature is reguired upon arrival confirming that the course has been completed when conditions exist that demand the lower minima. I have witnessed said company sign this? Period!
