EE Canberra book contributor request
 

Hello all,

I'm working on a book, at present loosely entitled 'The Canberra Experience'. The book will focus on the experiences of people that either built, flew or serviced the aircraft in various air forces around the world. It will be told in an 'in their own words' format, so at this point I am building up contacts from various countries so to gather the necessary material. Once the planned book is published, a percentage of proceeds will be split between the RAF Benevolent Fund and other Air Force charities abroad.

Therefore, my request to all good PPRuNe members is, if you had some experience with the old girl and are willing to share something of this in anecdotal form, I would love to have your contribution in the book. I understand it can be hard to instantly 'dredge up' something of interest to the wider public, and so the this is the format I am using to get the ball rolling:

Basic details:

1) Your rank upon leaving the service

2) Squadron(s)/MU/Station(s) served on

3) Dates of service

4) Types of Canberra flown/serviced


Your experiences with the Canberra:

- When did you first encounter the Canberra, and what was your reaction when you first saw the aircraft? Excitement? Disappointment? Just a job?

- After getting familiar with the type, what were you initial likes/dislikes with the aircraft?

- Do you have any interesting anecdotes about either yours or colleagues experiences with the Canberra? For example, an amusing (or sad) experience involving servicing or flying the type.

- Did any major or interesting changes occur to the type during your involvement with it? Such as refurbishment, fatigue problems, equipment introductions or modifications? Perhaps an idea or modification you were personally involved with.

- If you were involved with several variants during your career, what was your particular favourite or least-liked, and for what reasons?

If you have anything else you feel would be of interest that is not covered above, I’d love to hear about it. Similarly, if you have any Canberra or squadron-related photos you’d like to contribute to the book that would be fantastic. All material, whether it be written material or photos will be fully credited. This book is to be made up of related accounts, as told in your own words. The main point is, you don’t have to be an essay-writing genius to tell a good story.

If you have any other friends or colleagues who were involved with the Canberra and you think would be interested in contributing, please let them know.

Project background:

As a brief bit of background on myself, I grew up just outside of RAF Wyton in the 80s, at the end of the Canberra era. The impression of grubby 100 Sqn TT.18s and hemp-coloured PR.9s was to stick with me, and in recent years rediscovered my hobby (ok, obsession) with the Canberra. After a couple of casual talk with ex-Canberra crews, it led to the realisation that there were many good stories relating to her across the world - something that needed bringing together under one roof. Hence the start of this project over the last two years.

Thanks very much all for your time. And to prove I am not a phantom entity but a living breathing Cranberry nut, here's a shot or two of me:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...y_canberra.jpg

Steve Beeny

Canberra experience
 

Hi Steve

I enjoyed 11 years as an electrician on the Canberra, I worked on B2, T4, PR9, E15 and T19.

PM me your e mail or other contact details and I will knock something together over the next couple of weeks.

Cheers

CWW

Hi CCW,

PM duly sent and cheers for the offer of help.

ATB,

Steve

Steve,flew the T4, PR3, B6, PR7 and PR9 in the early '60s. May have some tales and the odd picture which may be of interest to you. PM and I will see what I have.

Cheers Bill, PM duly sent.

Steve,

Spent 14 years on them, including T4, B6, B15, B16 and occasionally the PR9.

PM me and I will get back to you in the next few weeks.

Regards,

Luke.

Hello Luke,

Thanks for getting in touch, and PM duly sent.

One thing I should probably mention to all current and potential contributors - don't be afraid of telling a story or anecdote that might appear trivial. Operational and technical stories are welcomed and relevant, but this book is planned to tell a 'human' side of the Canberra experience as much as possible.

For instance, the Canberra was well-known for its 'bake or freeze' cabin conditions, so if you have memories of that, please share them. Other such ergonomic trivialities might include the entry/exit ritual from the T.4, a nav moving between bomb aimer's couch and his seat in a hurry, or (less of a triviality) the experience of a B(I).8 nav not having a bang seat.

Hopefully this gives an idea of what I'm looking for in addition to the 'starter' details I gave above. These relate to aircrew of course; I am sure the riggers, armourers and electricians have their fair share of amusing stories (if they are perusing PPrune that is!)

Switching topics slightly, another purpose of the book is to tell this story from as international angle as possible. While I am gathering material from air forces outside the UK, if you had experience working with or training personnel from abroad on the Canberra, I would love to hear about that too.

ATB,

Steve

First trained on PR3, B2 in 1966 then through PR7, B6, B(I)8, PR9 as an engineer then in the back seat of TT18, B2/6(MOD) and B6(MOD) plus some T4 time. Apart from a foray into Vulcan, Pembroke and Nimrod, I make that 46 years almost unbroken Canberra'ing. PM me

Cracking record there, thanks for getting in touch and PM sent.

Steve,

Tried replying to your PM email address, but I get a message each time, telling me that the email address is no longer valid????

Has anyone else had this problem?

Luke

Seems to be working now!:)

Got your email thanks - glad it is not giving any more grief, and will be in touch soon.

1972 -76 I was a rigger on 231 OCU and of course we had our share of comic,tragic and bizarre incidents.Anybody recall this incident...?

Probably a student crew of Pilot and Nav,night flying in a B2 (possibly WJ677?) on finals into Cottesmore and letting down through an icing layer - suffer a double flame out...pilot tries relight but no luck.
He then orders nav to eject (slow ejection sequence on canberras so don't leave it too late !),nav bangs out successfully but pilot then tries another relight and guess what - both engines light up and he lands successfully :)
Meanwhile nobody has told the line control about the ejection...ground crew marshals a/c into parking bay thinking WTF is that big pole sticking out of the fuselage ???
Also meanwhile navs SARBE fails to operate and he is missing,station call out for troops to try to locate said nav,all get very muddy LOL (I missed that bit - being out with a minidressed young lady ;) )...I believe the nav was eventually found safe and sound by a USAF chopper.
In the cold light of day - during the ejection sequence the leg restraints had pulled out a large portion of the nav compartment floor :) and I believe the a/c was catogarised as Cat 2(assist) although really it was probably effectively Cat 3!

All from memory and happy to be corrected in the likely event of mistakes etc

Just recalled another little funny...
Canberra 240 gal tip tanks were attached by 3 explosive bolts and removing them was simply a case of ensuring that the tanks were empty ;) and then employing 4 'volunteers' to lift an ally cradle under the tank to support it whilst the 3 nuts attaching it to the wingtip were removed...what could possibly go wrong LOL???;)
Anyway cpl Stu was tasked with tip tank removal one sunny day and one of the 'volunteers' was our ENGO (engineer officer/ground crew flight commander) - the first nut was a little stiffer than usual - obvious question from us experienced ground crew ''is it definitely empty Stu ??'' ,''yes of course '' replies Stu.
Next nut is also fairly tight - again ''are you absolutely sure its empty ??'' , ''yes yes'' replies Stu...anyway and predictably the last nut is REALLY tight and we say ''dip the tank fer gods sake''.
He unscrews the filler cap and the tank is so full that fuel slops out LOL

''I'll see you in my office later corporal '' says the ENGO :) and stalks off LOL

The moral of the story is that one should not rely on tapping a tank to check its contents but to use the high tech broomstick instead :)

Hi Longer Ron,

love those stories, and was definitely chuckling on that last one at the 'see you in my office' line. I can imagine the tension on the last nut was pretty damn tight holding that weight. Lucky it did not drop as I have heard from another good contributor on this thread.

Regarding the ejection story, if anyone here can provide rough dates for that incident or even crew names, I'd be grateful. Very interesting about the damage to the nav cabin floor. One question related to SARBE, can you give me a bit of a run down on this kit? Specifically where this was carried, i.e. on the seat itself, then detached to come down with the nav, or remains on the seat and is activated later. I am very curious to know about the range of these beacons and roughly when they were introduced into service.

I remember 231 OCU tail fins well from my days spotting as a kid (the 80s, after your days) from the crash gate at Wyton. Hanging on the fence with a pair of binos trying to make out what was in that little white circle on the fin, eventually seeing the leopard (cheetah?) on a chain.

No doubt I will have some more questions and am sending PM to you now with my address.

Steve

Hi Steve
The Nav MAY have been Flt Lt 'Slim' Pocock and the a/c MAY have been B2 WJ677...looking on the ejection website gives a date of either 13/15 march 1973,I am on slow pc away from home...will email you on saturday if I get home.

Cannot remember any real problems with the T4 swing seat,sometimes it was tricky to get them to lock in the central position but as long as you had a 'Pig Sticker' to lock the stick fully forward it was reasonably easy.

A T4 story...late shift and dark,we are on our lower parking bays nearest the rwy threshold,our neighbours (360sqn) T4 touches down (WJ866 ?) and taxys clear for after landing checks,suddenly we hear a 'thump/bang' sort of noise closely followed by engine shutdown.
So we drive down in our landyrover to see if we can help (ie be nosy !!) as we arrive at the a/c - the crew door opens and instructor gets out in a cloud of smoke/dust and we also notice that the Navs hatch is looking a little crumpled around the edges :)
We ask the instructor ''what happened ?'' ---he just points at the nav compartment and says ''pressed the wrong fukcen switch''.
I believe that the Nav was an FAA observer (360 was ,as you know- RAF/RN) and his punishment may have been a shipboard posting.
But to be fair to the nav involved,I believe it was easy to make the wrong hatch selection in the dark and blow the ring of explosive bolts around the nav hatch .

rgds LR

Flying the Canberra
 

I first flew the Canberra at Cottesmore in 1972 after a ground tour at Hereford. After the OCU at Cottesmore I went to 85 sqn at Binbrook and then 100 sqn at West Raynham. Then on to 360 at Cottesmore moving mid tour to Wyton followed by a tour as Maintenance test pilot at the overhaul facility, Aldergrove, in Northern Ireland. Then Back to 39 at Wyton for less than two years before off to Radar Research Squadron at RAE Bedford flying many canberra versions, Comet, Nimrod, varsity and Viscount.

Of the flying the PR9 at 39 and the SC9 at Bedford were the most exciting and the research work at Bedford was the most interesting and the Viscount the most valuable for career progression

PM me if I can help
Paddy

Confusion over the "jettison" switch for the nav's hatch was the likely cause of Lt Norman Lake's sadly fatal acident in the T4 at Watton in 1967 or 68

internet probs...just back online

Hi Steve...about the B2(T)

As far as I am aware the only B2(T) was WJ731 which I believe had a slightly different radio/avionic fit,from my point of view as a rigger the only difference I seem to recall is that the Battery master switch had been moved to the back of the switch console on the stbd side of the pilots seat (ie nav operated) - on the standard B2 it was on the forward face of the same console and thus pilot operated.

Just writing 'standard' B2 makes me giggle as they were all a little different anyway (not just B2...all canberras seemed to be 'non standard ' :)

rgds LR

Longer Ron, I have to admit, I am a little confused myself as to why the Nav would have been pushing any switch himself to exit the aircraft, other than following the pilot/instructor out of the normal crew entrance door. Was it just a complete cock-up on the observer's part or am I mis-reading something here? Good story nonetheless and thanks for the B.2(T) details, I bet not that many folk know that!

Like your comment on the lack of 'standardisation' on any one variant's cockpit - shows how long the old girl had served for and the number of masters Cans served. You hear the anecdote that the second they left the manufacturer and got on a Sqn that they were no longer 'standard.' Makes them all that more fun in my opinion (easy to say never having had to work or fly on one).

Paddy, thanks for your offer, I will duly send PM shortly. I have some good questions for you then based off that brief list!

To all:

While any and all Canberra related stories are greatly welcomed, I am now looking for the following specific areas of background:

-Anyone with experience on the T.22, preferably flying, but servicing fine.

-As above, but with the interdictor versions - B(I).8/12 B(I).6 and the foreign export versions.

-Paddy (Tinribs) has mentioned RAE flying - we all know the famous 'Raspberry Ripple' Canberras and anyone who was there over these years I would love to hear from you.

-Again, anyone with time spent either training or doing detachments with a non-RAF Canberra operator.

Hi Steve
As Wanderoo posted,it was the Hatch 'Jettison' switch that would blow the hatch bolts.
The switch had to be set 'safe' during after landing checks but after so many years I cannot remember exactly why it was so easy to set wrongly...for obvious reasons us groundcrew never played with the damn thing :)
I am sure one of the Canberra aircrew on here will explain it for us.

rgds baz

Ahh, got it, thanks, Baz. It takes a civvie to ask a question like that. You'll all have to bear with me, I am learning, but not ashamed to ask. I'll look at the T.4 pilot's notes I have for the jettison switch - I only have a vague image of it my head but an inspection of it might make it clearer to me. And don't think for a second I am passing judgement here- just trying to understand the incident! :)

Escape systems are alien territory unless you have worked round them !!
In the Canberra (metal nav hatch) a/c - the nav hatch could be blown either by operating one of the navs bang seat handles OR by using the jettison switch,in the link I sent you - one can clearly see that the nav hatch has been jettisoned before a wheels up landing was attempted.
We had the same case at Cottesmore,the crew could not get the wheels down and therefore blew the hatch before the wheels up landing

rgds LR

I remember seeing that photo a couple of years ago and wondering why the hatch was blown as SOP for wheels up landings. It was only until someone rightly pointed out, that if the aircraft was lying at an angle upon standstill, there was a good chance the normal cabin hatch would be blocked. Made perfect sense then.

On a Canberra-related, but altogether different theme, not sure if any of you chaps are Flight Simmers, but if so, you might be interested in this:

Flying Stations - quality payware and freeware for FSX/FS2004/SFP1 -> EE Canberra W.I.P thread

I've been building a series of Cans for the last year and a bit, they are for FS2004, slightly older sim, but still a goodie.

Now back to our regular programme...

Pre take off check arm hatch, disarm during after land checks. The hatch switch box has two similar, side by side switches, one of which is guarded, the unguarded switch selects hatch arm and the guarded switch blows the hatch. With the hatch armed, when the seat ejection sequence is initiated the hatch explosive bolts fire and the hatch hopefully will disappear, once it has, the seat can travel up the rails and out into atmosphere. The hatch is also able to be blown without ejection being initiated for the reasons stated by others here, ie; wheels up landing or action requiring escape via the back of the cabin.
Low speed hatch blowing is not recommended as the hatch needs enough forward speed to carry it away, if stationary the hatch will lift a small amount and then very likely fall back into the hole it just left, it's very heavy with sharp edges!!!

Hiya. I was the last abbo! on the PR9 back in 2000. Spent alot of time flying them over the Balkans, and Afganistan in the final days. Happy to 'talk shop if you need' Cheers

Scorpion, thanks for the clarification on hatch detonation Thinking about that has posed a theoretical question some of you here may be able to answer. Seeing as the hatch needed slipstream to help pull it up and away, what do you think the result of hatch detonation would have been in a flat spin for instance? Would it have cleared the aircraft? On a related note, did any of you ever get into a controlled (or uncontrolled) spin on the Canberra, and if so, what were the effects of centrifugal force on you that you remember?

JP, yes indeed, I would love to talk shop with someone from the 'end of the era'! This would be excellent for the book, to have crew on from the early 50s right through to '06. Will send PM now.

Rudder Lock Party
 

Hmmm...this thread has dredged up a few semi forgotten things :)
The canberra and its large unpowered rudder had a wind limit for taxying (20knots ?) because it had a hand operated brake lever and used the rudder pedal movement for differential braking (no luxury like nosewheel steering !!) through the Brake Control Valve.
Before engine start the rudder lock was turned upside down - because on that side of the lock was a cut out to allow the rudder tab to move and hence allow rudder pedal movement but with the rudder locked neutral.

Then the 'volunteer' rudder lock party would follow the a/c to the (at Cottesmore) ORP where the a/c would park with engines running.
The 2 party members would then take a set of 'A' frame steps under an engine (aft of u/c leg) and - staying very close to the fuselage would take the steps to the tail and one of em would climb the steps to remove the rudder lock !
Then the rudder lock was carried forward and (after checking that the DV [direct vision] window was open) we would open the crew door and stow the lock in the cockpit,usually with a wave or grin from the pilot !
Just imagine the risk assessment on that nowadays LOL
Although I do not remember doing it that often...definitely not my fave job...Hot and smelly as invariably the a/c was parked crosswind :cool:

25 Knot crosswind limit, both take off and landing, 20 knot for banner towing runways over 150feet wide, 15Knots for less than 150feet. Maximum tailwind component 5 Knots.
PR9 may be different, don't have my FRC's to hand

Thanks for the rudder lock story, Baz. Thinking about the cockpit has brought up another loosely related topic. Can anyone here describe the procedure of moving from the nav cabin down to the nose position in-flight. Such as what kind of drills you had for emergency movement, what kind of time it took to shift positions, whether a portable oxygen bottle was needed or if you simply hooked into a regulator down in the nose cone. Any hassles or good anecdotes related to this movement would be good for the book. I have done it myself a couple of times, but that was of course on the ground, normal temperature and with no flying kit on, and I found it hard enough! Would love to hear tales from those that did it for real.

ATB,

Steve

The Bomb Aimers posn in the B2 nose definitely had an Oxy regulator.
I think there was also an oxy reg for the map readers fold down seat (Rumble Seat) but S63 will be able to confirm/deny !

rgds baz

P.S. hope you got my email ok,have been away since sunday !

Yes, got it thanks, Baz, it was superb and has been duly added to the manuscript for editing. Excellent detail and thanks also for the photos, I will clean them up in Photoshop and send back for your records. It's just been a tad busy of late here at work and I have not had a chance to write a decent reply...same goes for Altercumulus on here, who sent me an excellent email.

In general, a big thanks for everyone who has emailed, PM'd and posted so far - I value everything and am sorting it all out steadily... I will keep 'feeding' questions so please keep it coming is all I ask!

Baz, very quickly back to the oxy reg, bit of a daft question this, but in moving from the nav seat to the prone position, how did you manage at high alt before you plugged into the nose cone reg? Portable bottle or 'hold your breath?' I know it's not far as the crow flies between the two positions, but I was curious regardless.

Steve

Not sure Steve...managed to avoid flying in B2's :)...I was offered a few trips in em.
I am sure one of the aircrew will supply details for you,but it would probably depend on altitude,if the cabin is pressurised then the the 'Cabin Altitude' is lower than aircraft altitude,jet a/c have a cabin altimeter to confirm cabin altitude and hence to confirm if the pressurisation is working ok.
On the a/c I presently work on...I believe if the a/c is at 40,000' then the cabin altitude is approx 21,000'.
So I guess at lower altitudes one could move around easily as long as pressurisation is ok.
The stuff I emailed was mostly just for background info,sorry about the quality of the photos,I had more but cannot find them,but there are some nice pics on the net and will point them out to you soonish if you have not already seen them !

rgds baz

In 1962 I was responsible for the planning and organisation of equipping various RAAF aircraft with a special canopy breaker tool. This followed several fatal accidents with F80 Shooting Stars in the USAF where high speed aborts resulted in over-runs. Ejecting was not an option due old type ejection seat and when in a few cases the aircraft was on fire the unfortunate pilots were unable to open the canopy due damage. The USAF then designed specialised canopy breaker knives with which the pilot could bash his way through the canopy.

At my request the USAF kindly sent us the plans of the knife and after testing them on a Vampire and Sabre canopy we installed them in the cockpit of Sabres, CT4's and Macchi's. Soon afterwards, the canopy breaker saved the life of a Sabre pilot who hit birds on take off at Ubon, Thailand and forced landed. His canopy jammed partially open and the aircraft caught fire. He used the knife to break the canopy and got out safely.

When I proposed the canopy breaker knife should also be installed in the Canberra bomber, the idea was promptly scotched by a Wing Commander at RAAF Dept of Air, who said the knife was no needed as the canopy had explosive bolts to blow the canopy on the ground. But what if the explosive bolts failed to fire?

I wondered at the time if electrical power was needed to actuate the explosive bolts and if the crash landing damaged the electrical contacts or power was cut, the bolts could not be fired. So the canopy breaker knife never went into Canberra. I hope lives were not lost because of that short-sighted personal decision.

All electrical power for the ejection sequence comes from battery not aircraft power supply so in the event of a loss of electrical power the hatch and canopy bolts will still activate. There are of course three routes out of a Canberra, exit/entrance door, rear hatch and ejection seat. The double skin canopy on the Canberra would require an axe to break it, a knife would be useless, a crash axe is stowed inside next to the entrance door. The pilots canopy explosive bolts were deactivated many years ago as it was found on ejection the lower leading edge of the canopy could "fold under" decapitating the pilot so the seat now fires through the canopy.

"Baz, very quickly back to the oxy reg, bit of a daft question this, but in moving from the nav seat to the prone position, how did you manage at high alt before you plugged into the nose cone reg? Portable bottle or 'hold your breath?' I know it's not far as the crow flies between the two positions, but I was curious regardless."

If you are young and agile no problem! There is a long oxy pipe available for moving around and yes there is a regulator up front. Getting back to the rear cabin in an emergency and strapping back in can be a problem it depends how much time you have and how quickly you can do up enough straps to eject. There are 19 possible combinations of connections to be made, straps, plugs, dinghy etc but not all are needed to eject. The effects of violent aerodynamic forces however could make life very difficult indeed.

Scorpion - that is extremely interesting about deactivation of the pilot's canopy explosive bolts. In all my reading I have never come across that, and I don't believe it is mentioned in the various Pilot's Notes I've read. I am not disputing you, but it is just an interesting and suprising revelation. So with that said, what would be the consequences of ejecting using the leg handle rather than the face blind handles? Would your bone dome offer enough protection punching through the glass? I am assuming the seat would make the initial 'hole', but perhaps you can clarify.

Thanks for the oxy reg/pipe detail, sounds like quite a process moving around the cabin, and I damn sure would not want to try this in a hurry.

The seat pan handle is the method of choice as it is quicker and easier to get too, the top of the seat will make a very big hole in the canopy and shatter it.
Not all Canberra's have the canopy cartridges removed and as is always the case with the Canberra no two are the same.

The canopy of the Vampire Mk 31 was double skin as well. Saw a film of the canopy breaker knife testing on the Vampire and the pilot smashed through this canopy in around 20 seconds no problem.

Centaurus,

many thanks for sharing those details about the canopy breaker knife and the decision not to adopt it. Seems very odd considering it had already proven its worth, as surely it would not have been such an expense to equip aircrew with it despite the explosive bolts. I wonder now if this knife is the same knife-looking object I have seen in photos of Argentine Canberra crews, as shown in the photo below. I always thought this possibly some kind of survival kit knife but does this look anything like the canopy breaker knife? My suspicion is that this may look a little small for the job...

(PM also coming your way)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../random002.jpg