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-   -   Outstanding aircraft types that didn't see combat (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/656440-outstanding-aircraft-types-didnt-see-combat.html)

Asturias56 1st Jan 2024 16:33


Originally Posted by Brewster Buffalo (Post 11565533)
In Vietnam there were 8 combat losses - 7 to AA or SAMs and 1 to a MiG19 - but no kills. Surprisingly it was used for close air support sometimes...

Jeez - Lockheed (and Prince Bernhard) sold them as ground attack aircraft to the Germans - and that didn't work out too well...................

tonytales 2nd Jan 2024 00:37

Did the McDonnel F2H Banshee see combat in Korea? Its competitor, the F9F Panther did but don't remember anything on the Banshee. It never grew swept wings either like the Panther.

megan 2nd Jan 2024 04:03


Did the McDonnel F2H Banshee see combat in Korea
Yes, fighter escorting bombers prior to the arrival of Migs, reconnaissance and ground attack.

pr00ne 6th Jan 2024 22:53


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11565668)
Jeez - Lockheed (and Prince Bernhard) sold them as ground attack aircraft to the Germans - and that didn't work out too well...................

Actually it DID work out rather well!
F-104G’s were rather different beasts than what the US operated in Vietnam, in both airframe and avionic fit.
As fast and low nuclear delivery platforms (what they were bought for) they were excellent, and had a lower percentage loss rate than RAF Lightnings!
The Germans certainly lost a lot, but they did order a huge number.
Became far less useful after NATO went all flexible response and conventional weapons delivery, but that’s why the Tornado was their replacement.

Asturias56 7th Jan 2024 08:40

Hmmm - I'm old enough to remember the F-104G saga - I don't think you'll find many people who thought they were "excellent"

DHfan 7th Jan 2024 10:04

IIRC, the saying in the Luftwaffe was the way to get an F-104G was buy a field and wait.

treadigraph 7th Jan 2024 10:30

I went to the Last Starfighter event at Erding back in 1986, certainly got the impression that the Luftwaffe liked theirs! I thought they were retiring them after that but they seemed to carry on for some years. Great event, can't recall how many they launched towards the end of the display, but it was quite a few. Scramble doesn't have a report... If I recall they lost about 25% in accidents over the years.

Brewster Buffalo 7th Jan 2024 10:47

There can't be many combat aircraft where the export numbers vastly exceeded the home purchase. So, from Wiki, USAF bought 170 F-104 against 2000+ exports - 1 : 11.
MiG 21 maybe?

Quemerford 7th Jan 2024 12:58

Northrop F-5 would be the obvious example where exports exceed home purchase.

BEagle 7th Jan 2024 13:05

Luftwaffe F-104G loss rate was 32%

UK Sea Vixen loss rate was 38%

Quemerford 7th Jan 2024 14:33


Originally Posted by BEagle (Post 11570495)
Luftwaffe F-104G loss rate was 32%

UK Sea Vixen loss rate was 38%

IIRC the RCAF F-104 loss rate was higher than the Luftwaffe.

Self loading bear 7th Jan 2024 17:18

Handle Page Victor has never been used as bomber in action. In the Borneo conflict they were send to Singapore as deterrent.

Quemerford 7th Jan 2024 18:30


Originally Posted by Self loading bear (Post 11570696)
Handle Page Victor has never been used as bomber in action. In the Borneo conflict they were send to Singapore as deterrent.

The Black Buck missions would count as combat I'd venture. OK not as a bomber, but in harm's way is in harm's way.

Self loading bear 7th Jan 2024 19:10


Originally Posted by Quemerford (Post 11570740)
The Black Buck missions would count as combat I'd venture. OK not as a bomber, but in harm's way is in harm's way.

the tankers kept well out of range of the Argentine airforce.

Gordon Brown 18th Jan 2024 09:16


Originally Posted by Self loading bear (Post 11570769)
the tankers kept well out of range of the Argentine airforce.

If you extend that argument, then the E-3 has never been in combat.

Self loading bear 18th Jan 2024 10:46


Originally Posted by Gordon Brown (Post 11578415)
If you extend that argument, then the E-3 has never been in combat.

Exactly!
I think we would need to limit this to aircraft types which were intended to go in harms way. Otherwise we can include VC25A as well.

Fighters, Bombers, Ground attack.


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