ATC glider solos
 

Evening All, I don't suppose any of you might have an idea as to how many first solos in gliders the ATC achieved in (A) 1953 and (B) in its busiest-ever year?

You could try asking HQ Air Cadets at Cranwell, Dave. They are supposed to be running the show, I believe.
Sorry I can't help you - I did my solo's in Feb 68, at 611 GS, Swanton Morley. 'A wild and lonely place, ye ken....'

In the era '64 to '70 there were many plans hatched to 'beat' the records but what the results were I don't know. Certainly many schools in that period set themselves a target of equalling the number of launches as their school number ie '6XX'; I can remember seeing a 'plan' at my school (613 Halton) to try to do it so maybe somebody at HQAC suggested it and they all gave it a go.
I doubt that HQAC or 2 FTS as it's now called would keep records going back that far; they're notoriously bad at collecting statistics like that let alone storing the records somewhere and don't forget HQAC has moved several times since the '50s; I remember it as being at White Waltham until the early '60s, then it went to Brampton then Newton before finishing up at Cranwell and it's easy to 'lose' a filing cabinet of records in these moves.

Dave,you can bet it was probably 100x what it was 60 yrs later.....

​​​​​​​And that includes the paperwork to keep a fleet of aircraft airworthy.

Sycamore and VX you're not wrong. I was flying WT900 for Loughborough Uni freshers all last Sunday, and all the students really really enjoyed it. As we were putting WT900 away that evening I couldn't help but reflect.....
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5313ab2a7f.jpg

What a lovely photograph !

A quick glance at the photo,and I thought` Shoot` they`re fitting RATOG to gliders now``...just that white blur under the fuselage....
I wenton an ATC gliding course at RAF Newton in Jan or Feb`59..as expected it blew,rained,occasional snow flurries,and was `effing cold`..Nobody was `soloed`,as it would be deemed`unfair` to all ,due the conditions and it was just as cold in the `accomodation`...still,it was `fun`when you are about 15,and away from home..
Then in mid `68 whilst doing ETPS,did 2 trips in `Barge WD920` at Upavon,sent solo in OlympiaVV400 for 10 mins,,then 1h20 m soaring.;couple of weeks later ,1h soaring in Sky XA876.Then relegated to `tug-pilot` in the Chipmunk,for having `hogged` the soaring bit...great `fun `again...

My brother went to Hawkinge in December '61 for a one week course; not surprisingly he didn't solo either and neither did any of the course then the airfield closed at the end of '61 and the gliding centre moved to Swanton Morley.
As we were only 10 miles from Halton, he soloed a few months later but you have to wonder was it 'productive' to send cadets away at that time of year?
Approaching my 16th birthday, I asked my CO for a gliding course as soon as I was old enough and got one commencing just after my 16th, soloing in about 5 weekends and attending both sat and sun.

Maybe not 'now' but back 'then' they did.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f251d9e5f.jpg
​​​​​​​

But he's using the spoilers so he's cheating.

Hi Dave cannot help with 1953 but In The Gliding Book Chap 3 (Nicholas Kaye Ltd 1965) - Alex Watson writes that in 1963 the Air Cadet Gliding movement was responsible for training 2043 Cadets to A&B standard (3 solo ccts at that time) for a total of 136,345 launches.
There was an A4 pamphlet/booklet called The Way We Were? published in the 1990's/early 2000's ? which covered Air Cadet Gliding during the wooden years,there may have been some launch/solo statistics in that but the lord only knows where my copy went :(

Any particular reason for being interested in the 1953 stats ?

cheers /regards LR

Thanks Longer Ron, '63 is perfect. '53 was when WT900 was built, but '63 is 60 years so a nice round number when I write my column. Over 2,000 solos eh? I wonder if the ATC did 20 this year???? Thanks for all the other comments guys - much appreciated! You know, it was a beautiful day last Sunday, and perfect for winching. With one of the lighter girls I got to 1600ft (the average was 1400) and the view was amazing. Two of the students told me it was "the most amazing thing they'd ever done" and everyone of them absolutely loved it. I think quite a few of them will be back.

That works out at 66 launches per solo which seems a little high.

I wonder if he was including Air Experience flights in the total of 136,345?

Hi UV yes almost certainly including AEG launches in that total - Alex did not elaborate on the number/breakdown of launches.
Hey even I went solo in 21 launches at 644 in the summer of '69 :)

I think the switch to a single solo flight from three happened in about 1980 or thereabouts, roughly the same time that Ventures were introduced.
If you did a weeks course (sun to sat), you were bound to go solo quicker because of the continuity ('right laddie, just like you did yesterday').
I was a weekender so with 5 days at school between each session, you had to do a bit of revision plus sometimes you 'lost' a day due to bad weather (it was October) so it took me a total of 39; that last day I did 6 with my instructor plus 2 with the CO as check pilot then my 3 solos all in a Mk3 so each launch lasted just 3 or 4 minutes.

Aah, RAF Swanton Morley. I did the week long course there in 1972 and went solo just 5 days after my 16th birthday.
I've still got my little green "licence" certificate booklet with a plastic cover, as issued back then and marked up with A and B endorsements.
Done a few flights since. Maybe I should have another go at it, now that I'm not flying for a living.

When I did my gliding course in Feb 1968, it ended with three solo's. I was told that I had to do at least one left tun, and one right, in whatever order to qualify for the A and B certificates.
However, this might have been an evil staff cadet winding up a nervous student! In any event, it was a fantastic experience for this 17 year old. At the time I was probably the only one in my schooll of 400 or so to have done something like that.
I can also remember 611 doing a 'longest weekend' session in the early 1980's, when they tried to make 611 launches.
When I read your initial request, Dave, did wonder if you were going to do a ' that was then, this is now' comparison.....

In any event, thank you from this ex-student to all who made it possible then and now.

It wasn't an evil staff cadet, it was definitely a requirement to do turns in both directions for the A and B. With a 270 degree turn off the top of a winch launch in a not very efficient glider it needed a relatively tight circuit to avoid brown trousers for a young air cadet with a limited but still developing judgement of glide angle.

In case anyone's wondering I have asked various sources for how many cadets were sent solo this year - no joy.
Wrote to ATC HQ. My query was confirmed, forwarded and then nothing. BTW if you go on their web site/contacts it's quite interesting.
Spoke to acquaintance who flies at major ATC site. Claimed the site had sent cadets solos in 2023, unable (unwilling?) to provide actual numbers.
The only solid intel was from someone who is the CO of an Air Cadet squadron. None of his cadets have flown a glider solo in 2023.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4a5722180d.jpg
Last launch for the Freshers.

Narrowing the possibilities
 

Hi Dave, Nice to see that the 'best value for money training machine' ever built (TMK3) still going ok. Your info 'quest' can be narrowed down as follows.
The Tot no of launches in 63 would include a hefty amount of AE input as this was a normal 'task' for schools by by then and eventually getting more efficient when the retrieve trolleys started to appear.
The 'schools' mainly ran w-end operations, plus continuous courses (usually Easter and summer) as staffing allowed.
The two Gliding Centres ran week long A&B courses as the norm, plus occasional instructor upgrades and training.
The peak years would have been before the intro of the Venture, and when the two centres were still operating, and also before we started to loose ATC airfields around the country. 63 would have been a good average that may have improved, as with more AE flying Cadets were exposed to Gliding earlier than before and consequently encouraged to do the A&B course plus the chance of advanced flying at Halesland.
As the Cadets usually claimed the Cert and enamel broach from the BGA this would also be a source of info.
Re the actual 'numbers' for the prescribed 3 solo's (A&B) I seem to recall the min required for the ATC was 19 training and 2 check flights, then you did 3 solo's on the trot. That was based on a 'continuous' situation, as w-end training was far more spread out with weather and availability plus 'gaps' for other reasons and could easily be over 30 launches for the same Cadet capability. I was lucky with Kenley (still going 615) being my local 'school' and can remember being quite shocked when we lost Tangmere, Manston, West Malling, Old Sarum, Weston, in a seemingly downward spiral. What we never lost was the legacy of being the best World Class basic training operation in the world (run by volunteers). Never to be repeated or improved upon. Not to mention those NAFFI pies at the winch end.

Lovely picture Dave :)
I have just checked my old logbook and see I actually started my w/e course at 644 Spitalgate on 29th march '69 with 4 Lchs,then 3 Lchs on April 20th followed by some really consistent flying in June - interestingly I see I had 3 solo check flights towards the end of june but I guess that might have been to bring my dual flying up to min number of Launches for solo.
I remember some things about the course very clearly but other stuff very hazy - I remember the song played ad nauseum on the naafi juke box by the u/t WAAF's was 'Breaking up is hard to do' :rolleyes:,looking at the dates I guess I stayed over in one of the barrack blocks a couple of times.I really cannot remember how we travelled up to Spitalgate from Peterborough as we did not have a sqn minibus,I do remember a couple of trips with our CO as he had access to cars from his car dealership but don't think they were gliding related trips,one of those car trips was to Cottesmore for some reason.
As to cadet solo numbers I do remember that the majority of our older/senior/staff cadets had gliding 'wings' and of course in those days they were all awarded for actual solo flying not just for training courses.I think the only senior cadet without wings had a slight eye problem - although I do not remember any sort of medical examination before the gliding course ?

We had an ex-Air Cadet instructor in our gliding club who said he had logged 13000 launches in Mk3s.

Kenley is now the ONLY school/VGS/Sqdn still operating in the south east of England; the others are all gone:
612: Originally formed at White Waltham as HQAC Glider Flight before HQAC moved to Brampton in about '71; spent a short while as a detached flight of 613 (Halton) and moved to Benson shortly before being assigned its number. When Abingdon closed, the UAS and AEF moved to Benson displacing 612 to Halton for about 2 years thence to Abingdon until it was disbanded 2016.
613: Based at Halton from the '40s and operated the aforementioned D/F at White Waltham along with occasional detachments to Bovingdon where I got my 'C' cert; operated alongside 612 before that school moved to Abingdon and then disbanded in 2016.
614: Wethersfield. Disbanded.
615: Operating again as normal.
616: Based at Henlow; disbanded 2016.
617: Originally based at Hendon. When this airfield closed, moved to Bovingdon and when that airfield closed, moved to Manston. Disbanded 2016.
618: West Malling. When that airfield closed a few abortive tries were made at re-establishing it at local civilian airfelds notably Challock but then moved to Odiham. Disbanded 2016.
623: Tangmere. Originally based at White Waltham but disbanded in 1960. Resurrected at Tangmere in 1963. Appears to have ceased operations in 1975.
By no means an exhaustive list; many VGS disbanded in the south east hence a massive 'hole' in potential catchment areas as well as a loss of all that knowledge and experience.
Others I know about:
622: I believe this Sqdn is operating once again at Upavon.
637: In the mid '60s we at Halton were offered the chance to help form a new GS at Gaydon and when that airfield closed 637 moved to Little Rissington which by this time was Army. Billeted at South Cerney for accomodation and messing but did not operate with the resident 621 VGS. Now re-formed at Little Rissington and operating alongside 625(?) which was displaced when Hullavington closed.
Having been a Staff Cadet/G1 grade pilot (P2 at it used to be), I was appointed WGLO between Herts & Bucks Wing ATC at 612 VGS, then took over responsibilites for 613 and for a short time for 616.
Any corrections/amendments please feel free.

Thanks for all the feedback folks, still nothing from ATC HQ though. For everyone who had a go in a '31, here's a great Keith Wilson pic from a photoshoot we did a few years ago.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....92e1a2c5e4.jpg
It'd never been so high!

The RAFROs who mostly operate HQAC are only there for a few years then move on to other things so there's a constant turnover of staff hence there is no 'pool' of memories from the past.
I presume there are records kept somewhere but where they are kept (Kew?) and how often they are 'purged' of dead wood there is no way of knowing. To illustrate, we all know that GRP glider servicing records were only kept by SERCO for a couple of years before being destroyed.

Been there done that !!!
 

Been there, but not at such altitude !! Great image of a Fantastic machine.(and in the proper scheme)
Anyone in management needing 'decision making training' just give them a few rides in one of these, and then some low level cable breaks to sharpen up the process. Better than a uni course. PC (The advanced training could include a fire warning bell and red light) just to keep them alert. We had it and chucked it all away.

What a wonderful photograph.......

Harumph.
'Clear of cloud and in sight of the surface?':E Until about 1977 when some major changes to airspace were introduced, it would have been possible to fly VFR as high as 5000ft amsl overhead Kenley. The base of controlled airspace at Kenley nowadays is 2,500ft amsl; when I got my 'C' at Bovingdon in 1966, you could fly up to 5,000ft amsl overhead but only if VFR, the base of controlled airspace was 1,500ft amsl
POBJOY: I would imagine that the medium cable break at Kenley would be the 'stinger' with such a small airfield; a low one shouldn't be so much of a problem.

Don't know if this article is of interest Dave but it does give some Stats for No1 GC (Swanton Morley)
Excerpt from this website .....
https://hang-out.co.uk/uploads/RAF-S...structions.pdf

Some familiar nemes from No1 GC staff :)

Sqn Ldr Curtis did my check for P2 during a 'trapper' visit to 613 Halton - a really nice guy :)
I also met Robin Miller but never flew with him.

615 Gliding School RAF Kenley
 

I was a Staff Cadet and then an instructor at Kenley from 1960 and remember flying a Sedbergh (rarely called a T21 by the Air Cadets) at 4500' feet over Croydon airport havng been launched from Kenley. My passenger was Chief Tech Tom Clinton who was in charge of our MT Servicing at RAF Biggin Hill. He had become bored with quiet weekends in the Sergeants' Mess at BH so somehow managed to get attached to 615 as a supernumary, very useful to have our own personal MT support person on-site!

It was rather a strange (and unusual) feeling being so far above the sights of London, I remember seeing a VC10 below us on it's way into Heathrow! With 20/20 hindsight it was probably a good (and safe) idea to introduce the height restriction for Kenley!

On the rare occasions when we were on the rota to have the Swallow and trailer we decided to make good use of it and carry out instructor flying mid week. I successfully managed my Silver C distance flight by flying between the London and Gatwick zones down to Lasham.

Great picture Dave, brought back so many memories.

Yep - usually referred to fairly universally as a 'Barge' - very rarely heard anybody calling them a 'Sedbergh',which incidentally was my Dad's old boarding school :)

Never met Sqdn Ldr Curtis; Dougie King did all our checks at Halton in my day (1964 to 1971) and he also brought the T53 in for us to have a go in..
Of course I knew Robin Miller very well and flew with him frequently especially after I was a 'bad boy' and landed '275 in the small field (the one on the right as you approached from the main camp) next to the airfield; my check flight with Robin (CFI as I remember after Phil Plows retired) was carried out in silence apart from remarking when he got out 'speed was only 43 kts on final'. You also had to make sure when flying with Robin that you got the stick well back for landing; god forbid you let the main skid touch the ground!

Well Chev when it was your base site it was the norm. But Kenley was quite small by most RAF station standards (not suitable for Jet extension) and on a medium break it was as I recall quite important to turn in the correct direction. We did reduce the chances of a CB on a first solo by always using a new cable for this purpose, hence by dint of common sense and experience 'we actually performed a safer operation' now called ALARP 'as low as risk possible'. Quick thread creep as at this time watching a program on the Pegasus Bridge Glider assault. Never mind ALARP those guys were just B.......Good, and got it spot on first time out, in an amazing show of precision flying that has little equal in the Gliding assault world.

Couldn't agree more Pobjoy. Here's my Pilot column from a few month's ago.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8a42064b8d.png

That's true, hence my second solo resulted in an unplanned arrival on a "well stocked " ramp at Burtonwood, albeit despite its many merits, the Mk3 would happily demonstrate its ability to sink when it encountered such, which contributed to my first "field landing " as it were.

I am still awaiting my "Good Show " from Wing Commander Spry for this feat of airmanship..

However, I would like to mention "other VGS's were available " , away from the South, such as Sealand and, as above, Burtonwood. ;)

There’s a name I haven’t seen mentioned for over 60 years, the “ Loud” Macleod. I flew with him at Abbotsinch a couple of times before doing my 3 solos. Many years later my last flight was GLA-LHR, Cadet Mk3 to Airbus flown one you’ve flown them all.

YS

ATC Exeter
 

Just found my old BGA logbook (price 2 shillings!) and saw I did first solo in T31 on 19 Dec. 54. This was at Exeter and I cannot find the School number anywhere. I am sure it is long gone but it would be nice to know for the ancient memory bank!! Brilliant pics - thank you! Bill

I discovered my long lost CCF Record of Service book under a pile of papers in a drawer last night.

My first glider flight was on my 16th birthday and as I previously mentioned went solo five days later. After a grand total of 1 hour, 26 minutes of flight time. Mind you, each flight only lasted 3 or four minutes…. :p