Which wing is this?
 

This wingtip was in a 1973 slide taken by my father, and I'm trying to figure out what type of aircraft it may have come from. I have some further clues, and an idea of what it might be, which I'll chuck into the thread later (don't want to lead anyone to conclusions just now). Any ideas welcome! I figured the panel lines should be helpful but so far unable to positively match them to anything.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5085f7b7a1.jpg

Which wing is this?
 

At a guess, the starboard one.

That in itself is useful information ;)

I'd post this in 'name that flying machine', which nowadays is more 'name that part'. It can be a tad cliquey but you might get an answer.

I think the whole clique is already busy on this quest.

My first observations:
Low wing aircraft
wide chord wing
Cockpit quite high and in front of wing
Perhaps quite small wingspan?
Probably single propeller as no engine pods can be seen.
Perhaps float equipped (based on water and islands in the background)

Do you have indication of location (other dia’s)?

Was your father a pilot?
I have
Some wide ranging suggestions.
But these are single seaters:
Miller JM-2
PZL-15 Belphegor
Bede BD-5 (wing chord probably too small?)

I, like everyone else who subscribe to that thread will be astounded and probably not a little miffed to learn that you imagine we try to exclude new participants. In fact the exact opposite is the case, more input would be very welcome indeed, so please don't be so stand-offish.

I don't want to be a tease with info but wanted to see if anyone came out with an unprompted answer, because the extra information points essentially to two very common airliner types. But given no-one has suggested anything likely, this is a holiday charter flight from the UK (either Manchester or Gatwick) in May 1973, and the remainder of the uncropped photo is a shot of the Corfu Runway, the wingtip was actually hidden under the original slide mount when I removed it for cleaning and high res scan. So it's a longish European short haul airliner.

I think it's a leading edge, because the lack of any static dispersal equipment, and the slight hint of something at the nominal trailing edge. This would mean the photo was taken from the front starboard side obviously, though it's not easy to figure out the angles.

Here is the entire slide, it appears to be a high pass over the island, a little later there is a lower shot and the approach appears to be in a southerly direction as there's another slide on the turn at the Mouse Island end of the runway.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ee9f3d94f1.jpg

I'm tempted to suggest it's the tailplane of something like a Britannia. But as late as '73? Monarch?

Can't find an image that supports the Brit theory though...

I'm as sure as I can be at 50 years distance that it was a jet airliner. Just to dribble a little bit more info in, the types flying charters to Greece at that time would have been 1-11, Comet 4x, and 727. The idea it's a tailplane wouldn't work for 1-11 and 727 which were T types, but I think might for Comet 4, interesting idea.

Well it is a big window. Is it possible to photograph the wingtip of a Viscount without having engines/props in the frame?

Comet you say?

Finally I get to say something sensible (though possibly wrong) here!!

isn't that window a little too curvy for a Comet?

I'm going to suggest a 'Viscount' wing, the photo being taken from the F/O's window, the bottom edge of which was 'angled' up at the rear edge....

This would allow for the lack of engine / props being in the view..?

The tailplane is not on my list as it has a rounded end / tip and a marked dihedral.

Cheers

I don't think there's any window where you wouldn't get interference from the large engines on a shot of the leading edge. Probably the window isn't as big as it looks, there's just a corner of it being clipped by the photo frame so it's a bit misleading. I can't work out the angles at all, the plane of the runway or the window relative to the wing or tailplane, I've sat down with blueprints and rulers and tried to figure it out without any success.

Anyway to dribble out the final nugget of information I have. I certainly remember flying ot Manchester in my childhood but can't remember how many times, and we also used Gatwick for holidays (hence the question in another thread about the "satellite" which I thought I remembered) in the 1970s). I remember the Icarus statue for Alcock and Brown very well. If this flight was from Manchester, for the date I have from my father's passport, it would have been Dan Air 727-46 G-BAEF. But try as I might I can't match the panel markings to any picture I can find of a 727 (and I went to the Museum of flight and tried to look for myself on the 727 example they have there). So I'm trying to get a confirmation one way or another.

The other possibility I had in mind was a 1-11, and certainly the year before I'd been on a Laker example, and have a very detailed photo of the wing of that of the Alps. But again, I can't quite match that to the panel lines.

The new possibility that it might be a Comet either wingtip or tailplane, and this is definitely an interesting possibility. I flew in Comet 4s on BEA Airtours in 1971 from Gatwick, and in 1975, both to Corfu, so these were absolutely doing Corfu services in 1973. If this were the case for the 1973 shot it would mean I flew from Gatwick, as I have information on all the MAN-CFU movements from MAN on the dates involved.

Also the sequence of photos is a bit strange, it's not an obvious progression at all over the island, these are totally fixed in sequence by the numbers on the slide matrix but it doesn't make all that much sense, I'll maybe post those up tomorrow to see if anyone can figure it out. It's possible my dad moved from one side of the cabin to another as we would have been a group of 5.

I'd be absolutely delighted if this turned out to be a Viscount btw.

I like the Comet 4 tail tip theory, but I can't account for the panel lines. Should be a doable shot as a passenger behind the wing?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....921c6204ff.jpg

I should have thought a Viscount tailplane would have more rounded tip and dihedral; main wing would show a bit of the aileron.

No. definitely not

I also pondered Comet empennage, but looking at pictures the tailplane root seems to be at a very similar height to the window line, and I'm not sure you would see that much of the upper TP surface.

1973 Corfu UK Holiday flight - I reckoned first a BAC 1-11
so could be Laker Dan Air or Cambrian at the time.
(Not a -500 series as they had a tip kink added)

But I am thinking it is a Comet (DA or KT) - do I see a glimpse of the fuel jettison?

Doubt a 727 (DA) before the LE slats/flaps go down, but curved windows>? No.

Which it also means it is not a 707 (GK KT DA) or a 737-200 (BY)
and not a Viscount.

Wow, the drawing is great Noyade, really great food for thought there - I find it really hard to figure out the angles and how far out the tip might be, but the drawing is really helpful in visualising it. I think it's time to find out what flew out of Gatwick on the day in question.

I can see the feature that might be taken for a bit of the fuel tank - could even look a bit like a prop now I've noticed it - but I think that's grime on the slide. There was quite a lot of that and it tended to cluster on the edge,

Thanks so much to everyone who's engaged with this, really helpful. I'm going to set up the flight path sequence to try and figure out the approach now I have some attention ;)

Here are the photos on the approach, first picture is my attempt at a possible routing, starts looking back at Lake Korission positioned south west of the island, turns and runs parallel to the island heading north on the "wing" shot", then over Glyfada which on the west coast (due west of the airport) with two different photos, the second with a pronounced turn (possible telephoto zoom here), then parallel again to the runway flying lower to the north, and the last one at the southern end of the runway at the turn.

The sequence of these is determined accurately by the matrix numbers on the slide film. These sort of work with my father sitting on the port side and travelling north initially, I think better than the idea of a starboard southerly approach with the tailplane visible.

Subsequent photos are just the big versions of the insets, in case any clues there. I did wonder whether there were any standard approaches and holds.

Certainly interested in hearing from anyone who can validate or discount my interpretation.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....316b7add89.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6ec64df237.jpg
Lake Korrission from East of the Island just north of Marbella Beach

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....99552b2f5d.jpg
Corfu Airport from east and slight south, at altitude

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fe8231e27a.jpg
Glyfada Beach from West and slightly north, at altitude

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ae20d55b1.jpg
Slightly south of last Glyfada beach photo, appears lower and turning

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....642c084d38.jpg
Back to the east of the airport


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d9521e3f28.jpg
Turning at the southern end of the runway.

Definitely not a T tail aircraft of any sort; looks more like a Cherokee to me.
Due to obstructions at the north of the airfield, airliner pilots rarely elected to depart off 35 or land on 17; there was a set of traffic lights (at least when I went there in '88) literally at the north end of the runway.

Tailplane of a Metropolitan, maybe.

Windows look wrong.

It wasn't a light aircraft or smaller airliner, I was on it and it was a holiday charter, so just on the basis of range it won't be a small prop or turboprop.

The Comet tailplane theory doesn't work as it would be impossible to see down onto it from the window base (see graphic)

Trailing edges seem unlikely because of the lack of static dispersal features and the difficulty of getting behind the wingtip anyway. That also implies the wingtip photo was flying in a southerly direction, which doesn't fit well with the sequence.

I guess I'm stumped at this point. Going to go back and check all details because I must have missed something important!


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f6cfb54f7d.jpg

Given the apparent height of the photographer above the object in question, what about a Carvair wingtip?

Have a look at 1:55-2:00 into this video.

Compare the line of cabin windows with the position of the tailplane; the windows are if anything, slightly below the tailplane but the photo shows a view looking DOWN on the tailplane with the cabin windows well above it.
I would suggest it's something with a very low set and low dihedral tailplane like a Britannia.

I don't think it's a Comet but it does occur to me that the aircraft may well be in a turn with the camera pointing slightly upwards in relation to the aircraft, hence no apparent tailplane dihedral. Could it also be a wide angle lens he used, giving some distortion to the window frame and tailplane?

He was a camera enthusiast (Pentax SLR), and used a lot of lenses including wide angle and telephoto, and not unlikely he was using wide angle out of the window, it would make sense for landscape shots I think. Sadly now deceased, so I can't ask him!

If this was a Manchester flight, it was a 727 somehow, but really losing confidence in that possibility now. I'm asking someone who has records from Gatwick to see what went up on the date in question (21st May 1973)

A 727 is not possible; the tailplane would have been well above window line and out of sight from the cabin.

You more or less have deduced this for yourself -
you state you went to Corfu a lot on BEA Airtours Comets at that time - in the early 70's and I too think it is a Comet wing tip.

However KT's wings were painted red...Plot thickens

Dan Air Comet 4B wing from cabin in flight

The 3 Dan Air 727's were flying then in 1973 on their first summer from mainly LGW BHX and MAN but the round windows throw me --- although the wing tip - was a maybe...

I don't know why some folk here think it is a tailplane - The Comets were angled upwards and the tips on KT's were painted black.
Even seated down the back in the last row I do not think you would see the tail.

Carvair or Metropolitan>? Do Pay attention at the back, Class....lol

Looking at that line diagram there seems to be quite a degree of dihedral on the tail which does not show in the photo. This would suggest it to be the main wing.

Assuming the type in question to be a Comet, it would almost certainly be a 4 series model. Looking at the wingtip, there would be some kind of fence visible from the photos perspective. I also dare say that the profile nose on a Comet is a little less sharp than what is shown on the picture.

But looking at an 1-11 wingtip, it seems that there is quite a bit of similarity. As it has been mentioned, if not established, by people more knowledgeable than me that 1-11s were among the types operated on the discussed route in a matching time frame, I´d place my bets on this type here.

This is fun.

Dan-Air (or Olympic?) Comet wing without slipper tanks.
Must have been fun doing that 180 for RW35.

I would propose a Britannia as the attached extract (currently the complete drawing is for sale on Ebay) shows a very similar looking tip of the tailplane plus the relatively close location of the curved rear passenger windows (on some versions only). This would allow the photo to be taken with a reasonably wide angle lens that would include the end of the tailplane.

I note that according to Wikipedia, Britannia's were flying passengers with Monarch up to 1974. However it appears that they must have usually flown from Luton as their bases at Manchester and Gatwick did not open until the 1980's

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2538e45f1.png

Vanguard leading edge metal work looks similar and has nice big windows.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5febc47be1.jpg



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d446d648b5.jpg

That was my first impression as well. Some type of low wing monoplane general aviation type. I can't be more specific that that, there is something about the far tip of the starboard wing gives me that impression.

I am enjoying this thread very much!

Don't recall any Vanguards doing ITs to Corfu.