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rog747 3rd Aug 2022 16:10

Channel Airways Comets
 
Following on from Dan Air's ex BOAC Comet 4 Ops post, the story of poor old Channel Airways' Comet fleet is here -

Channel Airways – Comets Operated
G-APMB 6422
G-APYC 6437
G-APYD 6438
G-APZM 6440
G-ARDI 6447
G-APDR 6418 Bought for spares only

Channel Airways won a lucrative IT contract in April 1969 to provide holiday charter services for Lyon Tours (Colne) for the 1970, 71 and 72 holiday seasons.
The airline urgently needed additional aircraft – Indeed it was a condition of the charterers contract that Jet aircraft be made available.

Channel Airways' inability to raise sufficient funds to pay for the outstanding BAC One-Eleven (1 of) and Trident (3 of) orders that were placed with the aircraft's manufacturers during the second half of the 1960s left it with no spare capacity to take on additional charter contracts during the peak summer season, such as the award of the major new 1970 Lyons Tours contract.
The only way the airline was able to fulfil its contractual obligations towards Lyons under these circumstances was to acquire five ex-BEA Comet 4B series and this resulted in a significant increase in its charter capacity bought at a low cost.
Coincidentally both BEA and Olympic Airways were at this time in the process of phasing out their Comet 4Bs.
Of Olympics' aircraft – SX-DAK and SX-DAL had been wholly owned by the Greek carrier and SX-DAN and SX-DAO had been on long term lease from BEA.
All had been sold or returned to BEA pending their disposal and they were stored for many months at Cambridge.
Channel Airways bought five 4Bs – the 4 aircraft used by Olympic, and the ex-BEA G-APMB.
It was reported that Channel paid under £2 million for the 5 – a price that included spares and initial technical assistance.

So as to be ready for the 1970 season the first two Comets were delivered to Channel on 26th January 1970.
These ex-Olympic aircraft were re-registered with their original registrations G-APYC and G-APYD respectively.
The ex-BEA owned aircraft G-ARDI (once SX-DAO) was delivered in April and G-APZM (once SX-DAN) was delivered in May.
All the Comets were converted to seat 109 passengers but were otherwise little different from their BEA days.

Channel even retained the basic livery of British European – only adding the Channel Airways titles and painting out the Corporations red squares!
With the ex-Olympic aircraft even less was done – the aircraft had the dark blue fin around Olympic Rings painted out in black.
Channel planned to phase out the Comets after the 1972 season and for their third season of the contract to change their trading title to Air England.
The original contract, however was not renewed and no Comets were ever to carry the Air England title or livery.

The Comets operated mainly from STN BHX MAN and also from both of the West Berlin Airports.

In September 1970, a consortium of three West German tour operators awarded Channel Airways lucrative contracts to carry holidaymakers from West Berlin to the Mediterranean. These were worth £11 million per annum and resulted in the opening of a base at the Tegel Airport, where two aircraft – a Trident and a One-Eleven were stationed from March 1971 to operate more than 50 weekly round-trips during the peak summer season.
Following the induction of the Comet into Channel Airways' fleet, the airline began using Comets and Tridents from Tempelhof Airport as the airport's runways had been extended to about 7,000'. These flights were additional to Channel's flying programme from its West Berlin base at Tegel.

By 1971 there were further problems with spare parts to support the growing jet fleet.
Lack of spares for Comets and Tridents had caused major disruptions and huge delays to the 1971 summer charter programme.
To ensure adequate access to spares to continue flying its Comets, Channel Airways acquired a Comet 4 G-APDR.
The airline's inability to pay for a sufficient spares inventory to keep all its aircraft flying during the peak summer season in 1971 also resulted in one of its two Tridents having its engines removed to keep the other one flying; this aircraft sat idly on the ground at Stansted for much of the summer season to enable its Tegel-based sister aircraft to continue flying German holidaymakers until the end of the season.
Channel Airways many problems of 1971 continued with maintenance and in obtaining spares that caused insurmountable loss in both money and Contracts.

During the first week of December 1971, Channel Airways sold both of its 139 seat Trident 1Es to BEA to counter the increase in unit costs resulting from low utilisation of these aircraft. The aircraft was leased to BEA's Newcastle-based regional subsidiary Northeast Airlines, who already flew 2 of the cancelled original order of 5 for Channel Airways.

In early 1972, former Channel Airways director Captain Peter Lockwood acquired a pair of ex-American Airlines BAC One-Eleven 400s for his new charter company, Orientair, to take over Channel's lucrative German charter contracts.
When Orientair's plan to assume Channel Airways' position in Berlin ran into difficulties, Dan-Air took over these contracts, resulting in an expansion of that airline's Berlin operation.

So apart from buying ex-BOAC Comet 4 – G-APDR – which was only used for spares, Channel retired early the Comet 4B G-ARDI in September 1971, then sold to Dan Air for spares, and was broken up at Southend during 1972 - the only Comet ever to fly in to SEN.

Channel ran into more severe financial difficulties and in 1972 the Stansted maintenance base was closed.
Channel passed into the hands of the receiver in Feb 1972.
The Channel Comet fleet were sold to Dan Air London.

Sotonsean 4th Aug 2022 00:32


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11272461)
Following on from Dan Air's ex BOAC Comet 4 Ops post, the story of poor old Channel Airways' Comet fleet is here -

Channel Airways – Comets Operated
G-APMB 6422
G-APYC 6437
G-APYD 6438
G-APZM 6440
G-ARDI 6447
G-APDR 6418 Bought for spares only

Channel Airways won a lucrative IT contract in April 1969 to provide holiday charter services for Lyon Tours (Colne) for the 1970, 71 and 72 holiday seasons.
The airline urgently needed additional aircraft – Indeed it was a condition of the charterers contract that Jet aircraft be made available.

Channel Airways' inability to raise sufficient funds to pay for the outstanding BAC One-Eleven (1 of) and Trident (3 of) orders that were placed with the aircraft's manufacturers during the second half of the 1960s left it with no spare capacity to take on additional charter contracts during the peak summer season, such as the award of the major new 1970 Lyons Tours contract.
The only way the airline was able to fulfil its contractual obligations towards Lyons under these circumstances was to acquire five ex-BEA Comet 4B series and this resulted in a significant increase in its charter capacity bought at a low cost.
Coincidentally both BEA and Olympic Airways were at this time in the process of phasing out their Comet 4Bs.
Of Olympics' aircraft – SX-DAK and SX-DAL had been wholly owned by the Greek carrier and SX-DAN and SX-DAO had been on long term lease from BEA.
All had been sold or returned to BEA pending their disposal and they were stored for many months at Cambridge.
Channel Airways bought five 4Bs – the 4 aircraft used by Olympic, and the ex-BEA G-APMB.
It was reported that Channel paid under £2 million for the 5 – a price that included spares and initial technical assistance.

So as to be ready for the 1970 season the first two Comets were delivered to Channel on 26th January 1970.
These ex-Olympic aircraft were re-registered with their original registrations G-APYC and G-APYD respectively.
The ex-BEA owned aircraft G-ARDI (once SX-DAO) was delivered in April and G-APZM (once SX-DAN) was delivered in May.
All the Comets were converted to seat 109 passengers but were otherwise little different from their BEA days.

Channel even retained the basic livery of British European – only adding the Channel Airways titles and painting out the Corporations red squares!
With the ex-Olympic aircraft even less was done – the aircraft had the dark blue fin around Olympic Rings painted out in black.
Channel planned to phase out the Comets after the 1972 season and for their third season of the contract to change their trading title to Air England.
The original contract, however was not renewed and no Comets were ever to carry the Air England title or livery.

The Comets operated mainly from STN BHX MAN and also from both of the West Berlin Airports.

In September 1970, a consortium of three West German tour operators awarded Channel Airways lucrative contracts to carry holidaymakers from West Berlin to the Mediterranean. These were worth £11 million per annum and resulted in the opening of a base at the Tegel Airport, where two aircraft – a Trident and a One-Eleven were stationed from March 1971 to operate more than 50 weekly round-trips during the peak summer season.
Following the induction of the Comet into Channel Airways' fleet, the airline began using Comets and Tridents from Tempelhof Airport as the airport's runways had been extended to about 7,000'. These flights were additional to Channel's flying programme from its West Berlin base at Tegel.

By 1971 there were further problems with spare parts to support the growing jet fleet.
Lack of spares for Comets and Tridents had caused major disruptions and huge delays to the 1971 summer charter programme.
To ensure adequate access to spares to continue flying its Comets, Channel Airways acquired a Comet 4 G-APDR.
The airline's inability to pay for a sufficient spares inventory to keep all its aircraft flying during the peak summer season in 1971 also resulted in one of its two Tridents having its engines removed to keep the other one flying; this aircraft sat idly on the ground at Stansted for much of the summer season to enable its Tegel-based sister aircraft to continue flying German holidaymakers until the end of the season.
Channel Airways many problems of 1971 continued with maintenance and in obtaining spares that caused insurmountable loss in both money and Contracts.

During the first week of December 1971, Channel Airways sold both of its 139 seat Trident 1Es to BEA to counter the increase in unit costs resulting from low utilisation of these aircraft. The aircraft was leased to BEA's Newcastle-based regional subsidiary Northeast Airlines, who already flew 2 of the cancelled original order of 5 for Channel Airways.

In early 1972, former Channel Airways director Captain Peter Lockwood acquired a pair of ex-American Airlines BAC One-Eleven 400s for his new charter company, Orientair, to take over Channel's lucrative German charter contracts.
When Orientair's plan to assume Channel Airways' position in Berlin ran into difficulties, Dan-Air took over these contracts, resulting in an expansion of that airline's Berlin operation.

So apart from buying ex-BOAC Comet 4 – G-APDR – which was only used for spares, Channel retired early the Comet 4B G-ARDI in September 1971, then sold to Dan Air for spares, and was broken up at Southend during 1972 - the only Comet ever to fly in to SEN.

Channel ran into more severe financial difficulties and in 1972 the Stansted maintenance base was closed.
Channel passed into the hands of the receiver in Feb 1972.
The Channel Comet fleet were sold to Dan Air London.

​​​​​​A very informative post Rog and although I was aware of most of what you have written one thing that I wasn't aware of was the fact that Channel Airways intended to change their name to Air England.

rog747 4th Aug 2022 09:20


Originally Posted by Sotonsean (Post 11272633)
​​​​​​A very informative post Rog and although I was aware of most of what you have written one thing that I wasn't aware of was the fact that Channel Airways intended to change their name to Air England.


Nor was I! It may have done the rounds in the local Essex Press and possibly the Flight Intl Mag,
I was just starting my Aviation career in 1971/72 and both SEN and STN were close to my home, but I never recall hearing about the new name....

I do recall Channel wanting Transatlantic Licences (which I think they got from the B of T) and they were in talks with CO in the USA to obtain some of their secondhand 707's but the Company folded soon after.

bean 4th Aug 2022 12:29


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11272750)
Nor was I! It may have done the rounds in the local Essex Press and possibly the Flight Intl Mag,
I was just starting my Aviation career in 1971/72 and both SEN and STN were close to my home, but I never recall hearing about the new name....

I do recall Channel wanting Transatlantic Licences (which I think they got from the B of T) and they were in talks with CO in the USA to obtain some of their secondhand 707's but the Company folded soon after.

They never got transatlantic licenses from ATLB because they were such a financial basket case. Consistently making commitments to aircraft they couldn't afford. British Eagle were refused licences at the same hearing because of ATLB concerned about their lack of Capital resources. Good recent reads for me have been Alan Bristows autobiography and a detailed biography of Freddie Laker.
Laker resigned as MD of BUA because the chairman, Sir Myles Wyatt entered negotiations with Channel behind his back.
Laker and Bristows views on Channel are contained in the books. BASKET CASE

treadigraph 4th Aug 2022 12:42


Originally Posted by bean (Post 11272857)
and a detailed biography of Freddie Laker.

Got the Bristow one, be interested in Laker's bio. There seem to be several, which one do you have please and is it an enjoyable read?

kcockayne 4th Aug 2022 12:43

Wasn’t one of their Herons painted with Air England titles just before the airline ceased trading ? Memory very vague; could have been G-ANNO.

treadigraph 4th Aug 2022 13:11

G-APKW in Air England scheme:

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos...0473.jpg?v=v40

bean 4th Aug 2022 13:31


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11272865)
Got the Bristow one, be interested in Laker's bio. There seem to be several, which one do you have please and is it an enjoyable read?

Laker. The glory years of Sir Freddie Laker.
It gets very complicated from 1979 onwards, but, worth a read

treadigraph 4th Aug 2022 13:44

bean Thanks, purchased! :)

Jhieminga 4th Aug 2022 16:50

As mentioned, the Laker story gets complicated at some point and 'Laker' only covers the bit until the collapse. Part two, 'Freddie', continues the tale: https://amzn.to/3vB36QE I enjoyed both of them, but at 600 pages each they'll keep you entertained for a while.

By the way, the Heron in Air England colours is here: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-...1B-C/2260473/L Treadi's link doesn't want to play along.

treadigraph 4th Aug 2022 17:48

Yeah, I bought both! Reading order of newly acquired books, Billy Connolly, John Cleese, Freddie Laker... Dunno who said :mad: the most...

Thanks for doing the link, mine works for me but maybe that "imgproc" bit stymies others...

rog747 4th Aug 2022 18:21


Originally Posted by bean (Post 11272857)
They never got transatlantic licenses from ATLB because they were such a financial basket case. Consistently making commitments to aircraft they couldn't afford. British Eagle were refused licences at the same hearing because of ATLB concerned about their lack of Capital resources. Good recent reads for me have been Alan Bristows autobiography and a detailed biography of Freddie Laker.
Laker resigned as MD of BUA because the chairman, Sir Myles Wyatt entered negotiations with Channel behind his back.
Laker and Bristows views on Channel are contained in the books. BASKET CASE


Thank you! I'll try the Laker Bio too.

casadave 5th Aug 2022 06:51

Rog747 - add to your reading list 'Fly me, I'm Freddie' - Roger Eglin & Berry Ritchie, (both Sunday Times journalists so no sycophantic swooning !!) which I seem to have bought sometime in the '80's. Must be available somewhere - good luck !!

Alan Baker 5th Aug 2022 10:11


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11272750)
Nor was I! It may have done the rounds in the local Essex Press and possibly the Flight Intl Mag,
I was just starting my Aviation career in 1971/72 and both SEN and STN were close to my home, but I never recall hearing about the new name....

I do recall Channel wanting Transatlantic Licences (which I think they got from the B of T) and they were in talks with CO in the USA to obtain some of their secondhand 707's but the Company folded soon after.

I have a hazy recollection that the original idea was to re-brand as Air Britain (which would have been more "inclusive"), but the well known aviation historical society objected.

WHBM 7th Aug 2022 13:15

I recall having the Lyons 1971 brochure; I used to collect these from travel agents as the only source of holiday flights. The Comet schedule was on a separate white paper insert to the main colour brochure, must have been arranged very late. As I recall there were separate departure points for each of the airworthy aircraft, in the traditional 'all to the same place on the same day' format - was Gatwick another base ? Must have been very challenging to introduce such a new fleet and crews, let alone one per base, and I wonder how much BEA helped them to facilitate the sale. Hadn't heard a Channel Comet operated from Berlin, this being the Trident territory, and not the Lyons contract. I believe the second Trident being robbed for spares at Stansted all season was because they could get no credit from either Hawker Siddeley or Rolls-Royce, and it was cash with order - possibly the Comet spares were sourced through BEA as part of the initial support package.

I did vaguely see something subsequently that one of the two remaining to the end Channel One-Elevens were somehow in use on this Lyons work as well. Was this from Gatwick ?

I have written before that August 1971 we were departing from Manchester (Wardair 707 to Vancouver, if interested). On the next stand was a Channel Comet for Palma, with the most dilapidated paint scheme on a service aircraft I ever saw. The old Olympic scheme had been roughly (possibly hand) overpainted with the minimum of paint, not in quite the right shades of blue and white, so the old scheme could be made out, then the Channel name in their ex-Continental font put over the top of everything. There was further patchwork as needed all around.

Did BEA ever actually get all their money for the aircraft ?

Flightrider 7th Aug 2022 13:32

Quoting from Tony Merton Jones's British Independent Airlines 1946 to 1976 and taking the bits relevant to the Comet discussion:

In April 1969, a five million pound contract was awarded by Lyons Tours to operate their inclusive tour flights from 1970 until the end of 1972. With the award of this large contract, Channel was required to buy further jet aircraft but the lack of finance caused the selection to be a fleet of former B.E.A. and Olympic Airways Comet 4Bs. The contract for the purchase of these aircraft was signed on August 27 1969, and the price paid was a figure a little under two million pounds.

Throughout 1969, in addition to its inclusive tour flights from Southend and Stansted, Channel Airways also flew jet inclusive tours from Edinburgh and Teesside to Alicante, Gerona, Ibiza, Palma and Venice. The first of the Comets to be delivered (G-APYC) arrived at Stansted on January 26 1970, and fitted out with 109 seats, these aircraft flew services from Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle and Stansted to Alicante, Basle, Gerona, Milan, Palma, Rimini, Tangier and Trieste. In addition, further jet inclusive tour charters were flown from Bournemouth, East Midlands and Teesside on behalf of other tour operators including Mediterranean Holidays and Trident Holidays (both subsidiary companies of Channel Airways). A weekly Viscount service was also flown from Birmingham to Ostend and from Manchester, the 1-11s flew inclusive tour charter flights to Basle, Gerona, Ibiza, Malaga, Milan, Palma, Rimini, Valencia and Venice.

One of the Comets (G-APYC) flew Channel's first Comet inclusive tour service from East Midlands Airport on May 17 1970, when it carried a party of holidaymakers from Castle Donington to Palma. This service was flown weekly throughout the summer, and most of Channel's Comet services for Lyons Tours also started in May 1970.

In September 1970, the airline announced another large inclusive tour charter contract, worth £11 million, which required the airline to operate flights from West Berlin to Southern Europe and North Africa. These flights were operated on behalf of three West German tour operators G.U.T., Neckerman and Stolle, and over fifty flights a week were operated to Greece, Italy, Romania, Tunisia and Yugoslavia. These services started in March 1971 and during the summer, they almost fully utilised one Trident and one BAC 1-11.


The book was a re-publication in 2000 by The Aviation Hobby Shop of the original four-volume series published in 1976 (pleased to have both) and a go-to volume for anyone with an interest in this type of thing!

kcockayne 7th Aug 2022 15:59

My memories of Channel are of a “no expense made” outfit. Real “seat of the pants” stuff. Their colour scheme seemingly varied according to which airline they had purchased their latest aircraft from. Also, they “modified” their aircraft to increase the capacity; hence DC3s with 42 seats & , I seem to remember, Vikings with 54. When they got their DC4 we were expecting 120 plus ! Those were the days !

DaveReidUK 7th Aug 2022 18:15


Originally Posted by kcockayne (Post 11274547)
Also, they “modified” their aircraft to increase the capacity; hence DC3s with 42 seats & , I seem to remember, Vikings with 54. When they got their DC4 we were expecting 120 plus !

Not forgetting the 7-abreast Trident ...

WHBM 7th Aug 2022 19:45


Originally Posted by kcockayne (Post 11274547)
When they got their DC4 we were expecting 120 plus ! Those were the days !

I believe the DC4 seated 88, a challenge in itself; over 100 would have been a step too far ! Mainly used on Southend to Ostend, where it held two coachloads of the typical 44-seaters of the era for Continental touring holidays, I guess fuel load was therefore minimal to keep within MTOW. The Air Ferry DC4 that crashed at Perpignan in 1967 had 83 passengers; one less seat row.

dixi188 7th Aug 2022 20:34


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 11274605)
Not forgetting the 7-abreast Trident ...

And 99 pax in a 400srs BAC1-11. 6 abreast seating. People were thinner back then.:)

kcockayne 7th Aug 2022 22:08

Whatever the aircraft was, Channel packed them in !

bean 8th Aug 2022 05:51


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 11274641)
I believe the DC4 seated 88, a challenge in itself; over 100 would have been a step too far ! Mainly used on Southend to Ostend, where it held two coachloads of the typical 44-seaters of the era for Continental touring holidays, I guess fuel load was therefore minimal to keep within MTOW. The Air Ferry DC4 that crashed at Perpignan in 1967 had 83 passengers; one less seat row.

Max landing weight would have been the restriction on SEN-OST

bean 8th Aug 2022 06:05

Channel were also very adept at hiring pilots who had been fired by other airlines.
The pilot who was flying the DC3 which crashed fatally on the Isle of Wight in 1962 had been fired by BKS earlier that year. He was observed on a base check by the ministry which he failed. Guess what when he re took the base check a week later without an inspector on board he passed
Information about the base check contained in the AIB files on the accident at the National Archives.
Info on the Captain being fired by BKS from Captain Arthur Whotlocks book. Behind the cockpit door

kcockayne 8th Aug 2022 06:21

I was in the Channel office at Guernsey Airport & saw a young woman & her two very young children check in for the fateful ZB flight. Later on I heard that they had died in the crash. The memory still brings a lump to my throat. Didn’t know about the pilot, though.

rog747 8th Aug 2022 08:54

Many thanks to you all for the extra stories - A time that really was the pivotal days of Package Holidays and their airlines - I joined the business in 1972.

I think another in-house Channel Holiday Brochure was Golden Jet Holidays >? Have a hazy memory of that one.
Their Comets though, were truly wrecks - Never went on one but saw them at various airports including LGW and LTN - News of their long delays often made the Press.
Another Comet was purchased in 1971 solely for spares - G-APDR, and G-ARDI was early retired in 1971 also for spares.

I never got to know for sure if their 99 seat 1-11's actually had 6 abreast seating;
Was it kept as 5 abreast, so with the removal of the rear galley and toilet to enable the extra 2 seat rows?
Can anyone concur>?
I only went on Channel's first 1-11 G-AVGP which was a standard 89 seats.

On 5th September 1966 Channel Airways Ltd announced an order for four Series BAC 1-11 408EFs with an option on two more.
Only three aircraft were eventually delivered, the first being in an 89 seat configuration and the second two in a high density 99 seat configuration.
This last seating plan necessitated a modification with two over-wing emergency exits each side (the only short fuselage One-Elevens to be so modified).
The first aircraft was returned to the manufacturer on receipt of the second in 1968.
G-AWEJ was due in 1968along with G-AWGG but GG was deferred, NTU and went on lease in 1968 to Bavaria Flug, who then bought it in 1969 as D-ALLI.
Bavaria Flug also then leased G-AVGP for summer 1968 just after it had left Channel.

BUA leased for 6 months in summer 1969 the almost brand new G-AWKJ Channel's 3rd aircraft (of the 99 seaters) delivered from BAC to Channel in FEB 1969.
BUA had lost ''JJ'' in the snow at Milan Linate.
I flew on holiday to Tunis via Djerba on WKJ that summer with BUA - the extra exit was deactivated and seating was 84 IIRC.

I flew on the Channel 139 seat Trident from Stansted to Majorca and back (Was Stansted ZSD in those days?) with my parents and my pal in a ''4 seater'' at the front,
and I can say it was seemingly more comfortable than the Air Spain DC-8, or a new BA A321Neo today LOL.
I was about 13 or14 and we were both big lads. The 7 across was only in the front cabin.
BKS Tridents had 123 seats versus 139.
It was a fine flight very fast, and we had the usual cold meal of ham salad etc.

Channel always had free airport open days on a Sunday afternoon at ZSD and SEN where you could go on-board to sit on their planes that you maybe going on holiday on.
I went on their new 1-11 G-AVGP at a SEN open day in 1967, and then on a Trident a couple of years later at Stansted.
There is a photo showing a ''small me'' standing under VGP's nose on the web.
We lived in Essex so Channel Airways was our local airline, and we often went to the Southend airport on a FRI or SAT summer evening to ''watch the planes''
They had a very nice waiter table service restaurant where Dad would treat us to a posh meal then go and see the many Viscounts lined up on the ramp that went off on night flights down
to Ostend France Rotterdam Austria and Spain.
Air/Coach Holidays were really popular back then as WHBM says - and they were much cheaper than Air Holidays.
Global Overland, Everyman Blue Sky and Cosmos were all big players, as well as Lyons of course.
Many folk liked them as they had never flown before and it was a shorter flying option.

WHBM 8th Aug 2022 09:50


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11274894)
I flew on the Channel 139 seat Trident from Stansted to Majorca and back (Was Stansted ZSD in those days?) with my parents and my pal in a ''4 seater'' at the front,
and I can say it was seemingly more comfortable than the Air Spain DC-8, or a new BA A321Neo today LOL

A picture I've seen a few times now, including on here, is this interior shot of a Channel Trident, with the 4+3 seating in the forward cabin, and the 3+3 in the rear one :

Channel-Airways-Trident-1E-140-Seven-Abreast-Cabin-Seating-Neil-Lomax-Collection.jpg (353Χ267) (travelupdate.com)

I'm trying to make out, the resolution is not quite good enough though, whether the individual seats were the same, just that in the conventional 3+3 cabin they were spaced apart by armrests, and in the 4+3 they were hard up against the next one. If nothing it would have been a manufacturing and spares nuisance to have the cushions etc different. I believe that the idea was families with children were seated forward, and one would not seat four adults together.

This picture appeared here on PPRuNe a while ago, and a long-ago Channel FO responded that he suddenly realised the nearest FA in the picture was his onetime girlfriend :)

It also reminds me of the last transatlantic flight I took, days before the Lockdown, in a BA 787 returning overnight from Washington DC to London, where walking back through the Premium Economy cabin and looking through to the Economy section, the seating width differential looked very apparent, and in a flash reminded me of this old Channel photograph.

This sort of differential seat arrangement for children was done in a couple of odd places elsewhere, Martinair of Netherlands with their DC-10s initially had them 9-across, 3+4+2, and then inserted a smaller additional seat in the middle, making 3+5+2, intended to be allocated to children. Of course, pax loads do not present themselves perfectly balanced like this, handling agents overseas could not get to grips with it and put adults in the centre half-seat (where they did not physically fit), and subcharters and short-term leases to scheduled airlines, which Martinair did quite a bit of, found it bizarre, and in the end refused to have them, which was the end.

rog747 8th Aug 2022 11:46

The 3 + 4 seat rows in the front cabin are narrower seats than the 3 + 3's in the larger back cabin.
28'' pitch was said to be the case down the back with 2 extra rows, but not so up the front 30''.
There were no armrests on the 4 seaters - and looking at the pic it is probable the 3's on the other side are the same as they too are squashed up against each other.

The 1968 HS Trident 2E sales brochure shows a 149 seat version using 7 abreast seats down all of one side except for the last 4 rear cabin rows.

It also mentions that for the latest Trident 3B series that by adopting quadruple seating (first 7 rows of the rear cabin) then 171 passengers can be accommodated.
This configuration would necessitate an extra Type 2 door added on the port side aft of the wing.
149 passengers was the Trident 3B maximum without this extra door (so it says)
Thus the high density 3B would have 4 doors forward of the wing (2 on each side) - 2 larger overwing exits, 1 on each side, and 2 doors at the rear
(1 on each side)

I have just read that it was a DH salesman at Hatfield that thought up the 7 abreast seating for the Tridents - He (the article says) went on to work for AC Buses.

DaveReidUK 8th Aug 2022 15:15


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11274997)
I have just read that it was a DH salesman at Hatfield that thought up the 7 abreast seating for the Tridents - He (the article says) went on to work for AC Buses.

Probably the same one who thought up 6-abreast for the 146/RJ. :O

colinconxa 9th Aug 2022 19:04

I was told that Stansted was indeed ZSD, a code invented by African Safari Airways. Their commercial section was one Robin Someone, George Short and possibly Markham Jackson. They used a Britannia in black and white stripes, but how ZSD came about I do not know. I chartered them regularly for Carreras Rothmans flights to Middle East. All long ago.

treadigraph 9th Aug 2022 20:45

My sister came out to Nairobi unaccompanied on an ASA Britannia from Stansted aged about 12 in 1971 - I would have been 7 and when we met her at Embakasi she claimed it was held together by sticky tape and string. I'm quite sure that was a slanderous statement... I remember it on the ramp at Embakasi with the zebra-striped fin.

Jhieminga 11th Aug 2022 21:02


Originally Posted by casadave (Post 11273224)
Rog747 - add to your reading list 'Fly me, I'm Freddie' - Roger Eglin & Berry Ritchie, (both Sunday Times journalists so no sycophantic swooning !!) which I seem to have bought sometime in the '80's. Must be available somewhere - good luck !!

Sorry to keep this offtopic bit going, but 'Fly me, I'm Freddie', although a very readable and not very biased biography, was published in 1980, when Freddie was at the top of his game. The two newer books published recently cover the collapse of Laker in 1982 and the drawn out proceedings that followed. You're missing out on those interesting bits if you stick to the 1980 book, although, on the other hand, you can't really go wrong . Back to Comets...

browndhc2 13th Aug 2022 17:23

Does anybody know if Channel operated their Comets and Tridents with Three pilots or did they have the benefit of a Flight engineer?

WHBM 13th Aug 2022 18:47

Along with their operations from somewhat-remote Southend and Stansted, Channel started up a quite substantial road coach operation, based in Southend, to take passengers to and from London, where they had the "Channel Coach Terminal", which appears to have been a bus stop pole in a back street near Kings Cross station, an interesting place to start your holiday from. When they went under in early 1972 the coach operation, which had picked up various other contract work along the way, was sold to its management and kept going, as Channel Coachways, still with black and gold livery (maybe they had picked up the airline habit of never repainting anything). Part of the dowry from the receiver was the vehicle decals, with Channel Coachways in the font of Continental Airlines that came with the Viscount 800 fleet purchase, and the oval eagle logo from the same source. They carried on like this for quite a while, unconnected with aviation. I last saw one of their vehicles on the road in London in the mid-1980s, still with the same badging, and a huge oval eagle on the side, which looked for all the world as if it had originated in the Continental Viscount stores, as it was the size of their nose decals !

It's a bit challenging now to find evidence of all this, but here is an old photo of some new-1967 road coaches of theirs, in the Southend airport car park, with a recognisable style of badging :


ATNotts 18th Aug 2022 09:55

Looking at the Summer 1971 editions of the Birmingham Airport monthly timetable (available from the airport shop for 2.5p!!) it seems the Comet fleet operated a 4 day programme for Lyons Tours between Friday and Tuesday, service GRO and PMI. The aircraft must have positioned in on Friday afternoon / evening, and positioning out on Tuesday morning. I imagine it operated a Tues to Friday series from another airport, can anyone recall which that might have been?

Interestingly said timetable was showing flight number with prefix "LY" which is clearly nonsense since that was and is the IATA code for El-Al. I cannot recall what was shown on the airport departures board, but surely it couldn't have been LY, and I would have though it ought to have been CW. I'd be interested to know whether LY was actually used, and how that could have been. LY was obviously a reference to the tour operator LYons.

bean 18th Aug 2022 10:56


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11280604)
Looking at the Summer 1971 editions of the Birmingham Airport monthly timetable (available from the airport shop for 2.5p!!) it seems the Comet fleet operated a 4 day programme for Lyons Tours between Friday and Tuesday, service GRO and PMI. The aircraft must have positioned in on Friday afternoon / evening, and positioning out on Tuesday morning. I imagine it operated a Tues to Friday series from another airport, can anyone recall which that might have been?

Interestingly said timetable was showing flight number with prefix "LY" which is clearly nonsense since that was and is the IATA code for El-Al. I cannot recall what was shown on the airport departures board, but surely it couldn't have been LY, and I would have though it ought to have been CW. I'd be interested to know whether LY was actually used, and how that could have been. LY was obviously a reference to the tour operator LYons.

It's purely the holiday code. Tickets and boarding passes would undoubtedly have been issiued with CW codes
Use of the word timetable would have been illegal in 1971
These were classified as non sheduled fligjts

WHBM 18th Aug 2022 17:37

I would imagine the Birmingham Comet might do little/nothing between Tuesday and Friday, and depending on maintenance requirements may have positioned back to Stansted, their operating base, or just been parked at Birmingham. Things were less tightly scheduled in those times, although summer weekends would often have three rotations (Court Line at Luton sometimes managed four, on the shortest Mediterranean hops) out and back. I wonder how often the Channel Comet was still catching up its weekend work on Tuesday afternoons.

John Ty Isaf 21st Aug 2022 15:26

Fascinating read! I was a teenager in 1970 when we flew in a Channel Comet from Stansted to Milan Malpensa. Stansted was a long journey from our home and arrival was late afternoon. I vividly recall the noisy and smoky departure of an Overseas National DC-8. The Channel flight was an evening flight and I don't think it was much delayed. We were sat in the back of the plane and the acceleration was impressive but I had nothing to compare it with anyway. My previous flights had been in DC-3 Dakotas! Arrival in Malpensa was late evening parking alongside a BEA Airtours Comet
The trip was a Lyons Holidays tour of Italy which lasted for about 11 days. The return flight was in the same plane, probably G-APYD, with arrival back at Stansted in the early hours. Again I don't think we were seriously delayed. The drive back was lengthy as the road network to/from Stansted had not been improved.

rog747 22nd Aug 2022 08:23

We reflect that the Channel Comets were acquired in 1969 for the huge Lyons Tours IT contract for at least 3 seasons from 1970.

I never saw any reference to the CW Comets being used shown in their own in-house Tour Operators brochures (Golden Jet, Mediterranean, and Trident Holidays) but I have read that all of the CW Jets would step in from time to time.

I do sort of recall seeing the CW Comets listed as flying in a couple of other Tours Company brochures - possibly Pontinental was one>?


Re the comments about flight code LY being used (rather than CW) in the BHX airport timetable (LY being Lyons Tours) I have also seen ''MH'' used for Channel's Trident flights - MH being Mediterranean Holidays, this prefix also appeared printed on their charter flight tickets, rather than CW.

We have no idea what actually appeared on the flight departures board, or the May-Fly.



In the early spring of 1970, the Comets were immediately deployed on the lucrative Clarksons Holidays contract for bulb fields tours flights to Rotterdam from many UK departure points.

Channel had this contract since 1967 with Clarksons.

In the summer, the Comets flew the extended holiday schedule from Birmingham, Bristol, Teeside, East Midlands, Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle and Stansted to the south of Europe.

With the arrival of the Comet, the Viscount fleet was further reduced.



Channels' Inclusive Tour flying had rapidly increased in 1967-68.

The new 1-11 started flying from SEN in 1967 to PMI RMI GRO IBZ AGP and Tangiers, and in 1968 the first Trident One-E 140 began flying from ZSD to the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands.

Channel had also won the Hourmont Travel IT contracts from from Cambrian AW (who still only had Viscounts) and started a large program flying from BRS and CWL,

as well as from MME CDD and NCL for Mediterranean and Trident Holidays.


No CW 1-11 jet flights were to be operated out of Southend for 1968 due to the many noise complaints received in 1967 - The fleet was moved to Stansted.

The runway length at SEN was also a limiting factor for the new Jets.

WHBM 22nd Aug 2022 10:53


Originally Posted by rog747 (Post 11282869)

In the early spring of 1970, the Comets were immediately deployed on the lucrative Clarksons Holidays contract for bulb fields tours flights to Rotterdam from many UK departure points.

I'd be surprised if they were "lucrative". The Clarksons bulbfields day return flights, a strange market niche, only ran for about 6-8 weeks each Spring, before the main IT season started. They were notably low priced, which included the day's coach tour. The destination was sufficiently close that it didn't suit jets at all, which probably couldn't even get up to cruising altitude before starting the descent. The aircraft used to do an early morning departure, sit at Rotterdam all day, return in the evening, and then commonly position empty on to a different departure point for the next day's trip. I think they used to use a range of prop aircraft, which at the time normally meant Viscounts, from quite a range of operators.

rog747 22nd Aug 2022 13:07


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 11282961)
I'd be surprised if they were "lucrative". The Clarksons bulbfields day return flights, a strange market niche, only ran for about 6-8 weeks each Spring, before the main IT season started. They were notably low priced, which included the day's coach tour. The destination was sufficiently close that it didn't suit jets at all, which probably couldn't even get up to cruising altitude before starting the descent. The aircraft used to do an early morning departure, sit at Rotterdam all day, return in the evening, and then commonly position empty on to a different departure point for the next day's trip. I think they used to use a range of prop aircraft, which at the time normally meant Viscounts, from quite a range of operators.

I think they must have been ££££making - as from the very early 60's almost every charter airline under the sun sent their aircraft there on these trips -

With a strong Pound, which was worth a lot in mainland Europe, the English were given the opportunity to leave the mainland for a day in the early 1960s.
The spark quickly spread to a day of bulb watching at Keukenhof. Tour operators such as Clarkson Holidays, Lyon tours and Hourmont Travel quickly responded.
Hopping across the North Sea was immediately filled in by the air charter companies who equipped their aircraft for these relatively short flights in a "high density" version with often two or three extra rows of seats that were added.
Keukenhof always opens in the last week of March, the bulb season always ran from the end of March to the second/third week of May.
With an average of about 25 flights per day with the main arrivals between 09.30 and 11.30 am and departures between 16.30 and 18.30.
Aircraft used were 2 and 4 engine DC- types, Vikings, Ambassadors, Heralds, Viscounts, HS748, and Britannias were all very prevalent.

Channel Airways had the Clarksons deal from 1967 but flew them many years before for other firms too.
Invicta Airways was seen almost daily. In the bulb era, the company would operate more than 200 flights.
It flew a fleet of three DC-4 Skymasters, and two Vickers V.745 Viscounts. These series 700 Viscounts were equipped with 65 seats. It flew from Manston, Cardiff and Coventry.
Air Ferry also flew the Bulb flights. The connection with Leroy Tours resulted in the involvement in the bulb flights immediately after the start of the company until 1968.
The largest Viscount user during the bulb flights was Channel Airways. The entire Vickers Viscount fleet, 700 series and 800 series Viscounts were deployed. The series 800 Viscounts were provided with 82 seats. Almost daily, five or six different Channel Viscounts could be seen on the field. The 1-11 was used too.
The bulk of the flights were flown from Southend and Cardiff. In addition, there were flights from Newcastle, Teesside.
British Midland also flew an extensive bulb flights programme with Argonaut and Viscounts.
It flew from Manston, Luton, Birmingham, Coventry, Glasgow and London-Gatwick. BMA started the flights in early April and flew them until mid-May.
British United Island Airways where the fleet of 5 HP Heralds were deployed with flights from London-Gatwick.
Britannia Airways was also a major carrier. A total of no less than 75-80 flights would be carried out with the Britannia fleet deployed on flights from Luton Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle.
No fewer than 75 flights were operated by Lloyd International Britannias in 1971 used on the Clarkson Tours bulb program from Cardiff and Bristol.
A year later the Lloyd Britannias were also used by Clarksons and this time with a wider program with day flights from Bristol, Cardiff, Birmingham and Newcastle.
In the period 25 March to 14 May a total of 85 flights were carried out by their Britannias.
Caledonian Airways, BKS, BUA, Transglobe, and Donaldson also all used the Britannia for the Bulb flights deployed on a program of flights from London and elsewhere.
Once no CA Britannia was available and so on Wednesday 9 April 1969 the BAC 1-11 G-AWWX was deployed, which was parked from 11.35 am to 6.05 pm.

Northeast (was BKS) was first seen at Rotterdam in 1971 with the arrival of two Viscounts used for the bulb program with to London/Heathrow.
The aircraft was equipped with the new yellow Northeast colours or still in BKS livery.
From London/Heathrow that year Northeast flew a modest bulb program carried out by, in addition to the Viscounts a surprise was the deployment of Britannia G-ANBK.
In 1973 the V.806 Viscounts were used again in the bulb program. This year the program was flown in conjunction with British Midland so the Viscounts were deployed from different locations from Cardiff, Bristol, Southend, and Leeds/Bradford and London/Heathrow.

Not sure why the 'Bulb boom' ended -- guess habits change and Clarksons went under in 1974.
Newmarket Holidays still do them by air, and some coach tour firms offer short breaks.
photo -
RTM bulb day 1960's


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