Mystery Argosy
 

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c19d3a8b08.jpg
PB4Y Privateer before its demise.
This photo was taken in October 1999 at an airfield in California. The main star is the PB4Y "Tanker 123" which disintegrated during a fire bombing run in 2002. Behind the PB4Y is an AW Argosy, does anyone have any info on this and how it got to be in a backwater airfield in California?
Thanks Akro

That's Fox Field at Lancaster and the Argosy, N1430Z, is part of a museum... I visited Fox in September 1999 and was surprised to see it - can't recall now if we saw the Privateer but I suspect not - I think there were a couple of Neptunes.

Still there!

Seems it was XP447 and went to the US after demob around 1976.

Maybe an ex-RAF aircraft that may have been `tried` as a tanker.Doesn`t appear to have props fitted.The other a/c wingtip visible maybe another `Allsoggy`,but the engine cowling looks more `radial` than a Dart..maybe a C-119....
I have been in t`123` when night-stopping in Boise,as the hotel was just across the road..however,I don`t recall getting into it via the steps outside,think there may have been a door further aft.Pretty comprehensive cockpit with GPS,etc,and looked well maintained .circa 1997.....


edit...beaten by Treadders....slow typing...

Probably N1430Z msn 6779 which is now at Lancaster Fox Field, Lancaster, CA.

Ex T.2 XP447.

IIRC, Friend of a friend said it was used to bring in supplies for the Fire Fighting Training School but that’s not confirmed.

You guys are just phenomenal! Cheers for the super fast response.:ok:

There were several US operators of the civilian version of the Argosy, though in small numbers - see listing here: AWA ARGOSY

Interesting, I flew XP447 on a low level cross country from RAF Benson on August 15th 1963.

Plus IPEC, Liffy.

Nice photo Akro.
;-)

Argosy
 

I visited Lancaster in 2011 and the Argosy was still then. I met a rather elderly gentleman at the museum, who realising that I was British, asked if I would like a look inside for a donation to the museum coffers. I gladly accepted this offer.

I have a few pictures of the inside and outside including one of the last page of a logbook found on the flight deck. I tried to attach some pictures previously, but failed miserably so will try again with this version of my post. Wish me luck.

QP

Upload failed again.

I was a little late to Aunt Betty's flying club to get hands on with the Argosy, other than the one languishing on the airfield at Halton. I do remember an Air Cadet summer camp at Machrihanish in 1976 where a 115Sqn Argosy was busy calibrating. The year before that it was a summer camp at Benson where we were treated to a couple of circuits in the Argosy simulator.

The gas chamber (OK - "RTF") at Manston was an Argosy for a while! And when I was at Halton there were two Argosies, used for engine running training but I think both fell into disuse around 1984.

Here is one of the Halton Argosies:

I remember the Manston Argosy on the burning area when I was posted in 1979. Although we used a tent as a gas chamber erected near the range.

Mystery Argosy
 

After receiving some very helpfull advice from John Tullamarine I believe that I can now add the pictures that I tried to post above.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....370228786e.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b543b2d00a.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e26321df27.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c02e5f31c4.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c3ff72174c.jpg

As indicated in the last photo of the log book, the engines and props were removed a long time ago, I was told at the time by a gentleman who worked at the museum, that they had either been removed directly by Rolls Royce or removed by another agency on their behalf. He also informed me that four Darts were then obtained by the museum from a Viscount that was being reduced to produce. Unfortunately although the engines fitted, the props would not. I have no idea if any of that is actually true.

QP

Nice photo's QP. The Argosy seems to be sitting amongst the fire bombing fraternity with the PB4Y and C119 evident. I wonder if the Argosy would have been a success as a fire bomber?

I flew in it on an AOCs parade on 19/05/63.

One of the Halton ones lasted until about 1993 when No 1 SoTT started clearing out their aircraft.

Mystery Argosy
 

Now that I have mastered the art of posting photos, thanke to John, I thought I would round things off with a few more aircraft that I thought interesting. All were taken at Lancaster on 16 June 2011.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0f80ecaa70.jpg
First up is the C119 that was just visible in a previous shot..

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e1b8ff3359.jpg
This looked to be in remarkable condition at least externally. I guess being stuck in the desert helps a lot.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....552e85da91.jpg
A rather sad looking Hunter was lurking around the back of the hangar. Somewhere I have info relating to its accident. I believe it was a fatal.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9827cf9dae.jpg
Lastly, this B25 reputedly belonged to Howard Hughes. I wonder if it is still there.

QP

The Hunter is ex Danish F.51 - if you've seen The Right Stuff, it fleetingly played the part of the Douglas 558-2 Skyrocket. Lost at Chino in 2000 after an engine failure on approach, pilot ejected and was seriously injured but it seems survived.

B-25 was indeed owned by Howard Hughes - now moved to a museum at San Simeon. Think there was an A-20 there at one point, which had also been owned by Howard Hughes, now with Kermit Weeks.

I remember seeing an Argosy at Lincoln Nebraska in 1990. Not sure if it was Civil or ex RAF.
Zantop at Willow Run operated the Argosy for a while.

That was the same Argosy as is at Lancaster Fox Field. https://www.airhistory.net/photo/367042/N1430Z

Pretty obvious if you take a look at the cargo doors!!

The civil variant has sideways opening, bulbuous doors while the military opted for a wedgetail affair that allowed air-dropping.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3cd4ecd703.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7c46ca6a7d.jpg

We were doing circuits at Lincoln and I spotted the Argosy parked in the distance, not so easy to tell from the cockpit of a moving aircraft.

Flew from Belfast to Liverpool on an Air Bridge Argosy sometime in the mid-eighties, landed at around 4 a.m, the rear cargo door opened and we were confronted by the sight of two unloaders having a stand-up, fall-down fist fight like something from an Andy Capp cartoon. :eek:

Back n the '70s, it was a standing joke at London ATCC with the nightly BEA Argosy from Heathrow to Paris that it could barely get to 4,000ft by the south coast (ie about 25 or 30 nm) however the Air France Breguet Deux Ponts which followed a couple of hours later could only ever manage the same.

In post #24 I noticed, that the Argosy has a lengthwise kink in the fuselage, probably at the level of the floor. The Fokker F-27 has the same kink. For the F27 it was meant to provide some protection against a belly landing, it contained a strong keel beam. Is it the same for the Argosy?

I flew it for three years, but never noticed the kink. Regarding performance, the military Argosy wasn't too bad. In Aden we didn't do many all freight loads and I remember the Aden - Bahrain - Aden schedule legs, normally full passenger, as quite a good day out as we picked up fresh prawns at Bahrain,, even though it was five hours each way.

I signed the dotted line at the then Salisbury, then Rhodesia in 1960. My first leg to South Cerney was via an Argosy flown by a certain Air Marshal. The planned route was Salisbury-Nairobi-Aden and thence to the UK. On arrival at Nairobi I was offloaded as the aircraft was converting to the all freight role. Dug up with spades, I believe.

I then spent a week or so hanging about Eastleigh; un-admined with no pay until they found room for me on a civilian trooper.

I was then too late for my scheduled IOT course so I was sent off again, with money this time, for a further three weeks.

Johnnie Johnson had the best garden in Aden thanks to the soil flown back from Kenya! He also used a Beverley to carry his yacht to Masirah. Then the David Shepherd paintings he took from the Officers Mess in Khormaksar to be "cleaned" caused quite a stir and I believe there was money recovered by the Air Ministry! The flights through Nairobi and Salisbury to Matsapa in Swaziland were very popular. I still remember the good afternoon drinking beer with the king of Swaziland in the Chequers at Matsapa!

The other benefit of a 'flatter' bottom fuselage (as opposed to a fully circular one) is that you maximise cargo hold (or cabin) volume while keeping the cabin floor as low as possible. I suspect that this may have been a factor in the Argosy design.

No it acted like a splash guard for water landings, kept windows clean as in our Argosy XP413 of 105 Sqn Khormaksar 1964.

Having had the dubious pleasure of ferrying an F-27 which had suffered a belly landing, I can assure you it didn't offer any protection I could see. That was a case of undercarriage retraction after landing. Not a full higher-speed wheels-up.

Mitigating the effects of a wheels-up landing tends not to figure very highly in the aircraft designer's list of priorities. :O

All this time from my #30 and nobody has pulled me up on my story about being stuck in Nairobi after an Argosy flight in 1960; which was two years before they first flew. I was stuck in Nairobi when first joining for different reasons.

It was returning from my 'Domcol' leave in 1965 that the incident with Bing Cross occurred. For those unfamiliar with the term Domcol leave was given to overseas attested service members who still had their NoK in that country. It was two months after five years service.

I still had to wait a couple of days in Eastleigh before getting a trooping flight back.

Fareastdriver, Bing Cross was C in C Transport Command in 1966. I joined 105 Sqn in Aden in August 1966 and was aware of Johnnie Johnson's’ Eastleigh visits as I did two trips with him.

I was on the Beverley crew which took the only serviceable Air/Sea Rescue Boat from Aden to Perim Island at the mouth of the Red Sea where Johnnie had arranged a fishing trip or two with one of his cronies

Thread drift I am afraid, but Perim brings back a happy memory! I was doing a Twin Pioneer conversion after joining 78 Sqn in 1959. We were descending into Perim Island for a landing followed by an immediate return to Aden when the starboard engine failed seriously. This meant a night stop as it was too late to arrange for a pick up. The Foreign Office bod stationed there arrived and we all muttered “Peter Sellers”. He arranged for us to stay in a government owned beachside bungalow which had four beds but no sheets or blankets. He promised to send the Greek shopowner to take our food and drink orders, which would be paid for by Her Majesty, during the journey in his landrover. The Greek chappie arrived soon after our arrival and took our order for an awful lot of bottles of beer. Food was more difficult, but I remember a few cans of corned beef. It was very hot indoors, so we dragged the four beds out on to a balcony overlooking the sea. A very pleasant evening was spent by the four of us, drinking beer and listening to the plop of very big fish in the sea. The next afternoon a Twin Pin arrived to take us home, but we never saw “Peter Sellars” again!

plus of course, the obvious difference, that the civil Agosy had doors at both ends. I wonder why the RAF didn't want that option.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0de85327df.png

I remember a wonderful (Punch?) cartoon, that I haven't been able to find, that showed an Argosy being loaded by a fork-lift at the nose, with pallets falling out of the rear. The driver was saying to his mate "It's amazing how much you can load into these things!"