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-   -   Willy Brandt flight to Berlin 1989 (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/637383-willy-brandt-flight-berlin-1989-a.html)

Less Hair 15th Dec 2020 10:25

To carry prisoners Stasi owned two private Tu-134s (DDR-SDH and DDR-SDI). It is highly unlikely that they used Erich Honeckers airplane. However all were painted in "Interflug" colors.

WHBM 15th Dec 2020 14:00

I'd be surprised if the Pan Am 737 (which had replaced the 727s by then) pilots "offered to fly for nothing". Their aircrew were on 3-month rotation from the USA so were all only temporary, I believe on average each of their 727/737 crew (principally Miami based) did so every couple of years. Cabin crew had long been locally recruited - the Allies restriction only applied to pilots. Demand for the Corridor flights fell away at weekends and Pan Am did run a notable number of flights for tour operators to Palma etc.

Dan-Air had been a longstanding based operator at Berlin, well before they started the schedule from Gatwick, as they were for long the lead IT holiday flight operator from there to the Med, generally in parallel on the same day with West German carriers from Frankfurt, Munich etc. They thus needed a number of ferries to/from Gatwick, which were sold as charters (particularly student charters) before the daily schedule began. In typical Dan-Air fashion they seemed to base one of each type they had there rather than a unified fleet. They ran 727s from Berlin to Las Palmas which at 2,000 nm was a considerable haul for one, especially with the low-level haul along the Corridor. Towards the end they also based 748s there and ran to secondary destinations like Saarbrucken with them. A number of the UK IT airlines based at Berlin over time (if you never saw a Channel Airways Trident in the UK, that is where they were), all again with local cabin crews.

By the 1980s a destination for West German tourists was the Black Sea resorts of Bulgaria, served by charters (as from Britain) on Balkan the Bulgarian airline. There were also significant holiday flights there from the GDR. Stories of separated families having joint summer holidays there, and even of those from the GDR taking their brothers' passport and returning to the west, followed (once they touched down in Dusseldorf or wherever) by the real brother then reporting to the West German consulate that they had been drunk, had their passport stolen, missed their flight, and seeking repatriation.

I don't think Singapore started operation to Schonefeld until after reunification, it had the only long runway in Berlin and others (I recall Air Canada as well) went into there in a first flush of enthusiasm, which didn't last.

Lance Shippey 15th Dec 2020 14:42

Less Hair.
Mario Roellig told me in West Berlin after his release that he
had been flown in "Honny'e" own aircraft with few seats. I
have absolutely no reason to doubt what he told me, as he
was the person sitting in the Interflug liveried TU134 in BUD.
The possibility exists that it could have be DDR-SDH, which
was Erich Mielke's personal a/c. who was chief of the Ministry
of State security, and may have had a VIP configuration. It,
after being sold to the USSR and became RA65606. certainly
did have a VIP interior.
Honecker used a personalised TU134 DDR-SDP, but in the
mid 1980's Honecker was using an IL62, and sometimes a
second IL62, which would carry cargo, such as food and drink.
which would be used to cater for DDR Embassy Entertaining
in the West, (Saving having to pay for the parties with hard
currency, and cutting down the risk of him being poisoned by
non secure food and drink. There had already been a shoot
out whilst on his way to a hunting lodge, and his bodyguard
shot and injured in the sternum. The IL62 was used on a state
visit to the Netherlands in the 80's (His daughter Erika married
a diplomat who was DDR Ambassador to the N.L.)
I have no knowledge of the configuration of Stasi second TU134.
DDR-SDI, and who used it. ?

Lance Shippey

Beamr 15th Dec 2020 15:01


Originally Posted by Lance Shippey (Post 10947754)
I have no knowledge of the configuration of Stasi second TU134.
DDR-SDI, and who used it. ?

Lance Shippey

This is from wikipedia so a grain of salt:

Flugzeuge des MfS


In Schönefeld waren zwei Tu-134A mit den Luftfahrzeugkennzeichen DDR-SDH und DDR-SDI des Ministeriums für Staatssicherheit stationiert. Diese Maschinen flogen mit Interflug-Kennzeichen und -bemalung. Offiziell heißt es heute, dass mit dem Auftritt als zivile Interflug-Maschinen leichter Überfluggenehmigungen zu bekommen waren. Sie wurden unter anderem für die Rückführung im Ausland straffällig gewordener DDR-Bürger verwendet.[21][22] Halter der Maschinen war tatsächlich die Interflug, der auch die Wartung, Instandhaltung und technische Abfertigung oblagen.

Beide Maschinen waren operationell dem Transportfliegergeschwader 44 der Luftstreitkräfte der NVA unterstellt.


Less Hair 15th Dec 2020 15:25

The two Stasi aircraft were in fact said to have had a moderate VIP front cabin and seats in the back compartment where the more unfortunate "guests" were carried. Crews were recruited from regular Interflug staff and received hard currency (US) for Stasi special flights.

BTW: Stasi owned a An-24 (DDR-SBH wearing Interflug colors) as well and several An-2s (military green). They were mainly used for parachute training, Stasi commando units and electronic intelligence. The An-2 sometimes operated from "Rote Jahne" airport at Eilenburg, some private air base that was Stasi owned.

https://www.mil-airfields.de/de/eile...othe-jahne.htm

Lance Shippey 15th Dec 2020 15:52

Hi Beamr,
Vielen dank. I noticed from the wiki notes (20) (21) that the twoTU134's
DDR-SDH and DDR-SDI stated "Die falschfarben waren weniger falsch
als der TG44" The literal translation is a little difficult to fathom. I guess
they are trying to say. The Interflug markings are less obvious than the
markings of TG44 were. ?
I know that some Western countries refused overfly of East German
military aircraft.

Lance Shippey

Beamr 15th Dec 2020 16:19


Originally Posted by Lance Shippey (Post 10947809)
Hi Beamr,
Vielen dank. I noticed from the wiki notes (20) (21) that the twoTU134's
DDR-SDH and DDR-SDI stated "Die falschfarben waren weniger falsch
als der TG44" The literal translation is a little difficult to fathom. I guess
they are trying to say. The Interflug markings are less obvious than the
markings of TG44 were. ?
I know that some Western countries refused overfly of East German
military aircraft.

Lance Shippey

By reading the link on 21 (and must say my german is VERY bad), I understood that by false colours they mean that TG44 (which was not part of Interflug at all and had its own staff) had the AC painted in Interflug colours, which was a camouflage for ops (hence falsch). These two planes that were operated by Stasi though were actually flown and maintained by Interflug staff and were therefore less falsch in the context.

Lance Shippey 15th Dec 2020 16:29

Dear Less Hair,
Thanks for the new info, which explains the V.I.P seating that Mario
referred to. There was another TU134 that was used by the Stasi.
It was an ex Aeroflot aircraft, painted in Interflug marking, and was
used by Central Specific forces department of the Stasi at the "Walli"
training facility at Wartin, nr. Prenzlau. The grounded aircraft was
used in the "TU" anti terrorist unit from 1984. and thought the teams
of how to storm an aircraft taken over by terrorists. The aircraft was
eventually sold for DMK1000. to Ernst Baumann, who was going to
convert it into a cafe in his garden., He however sold it on, and it has
been restored to its former glory at the Cottbus Aircraft museum.

I remember a CSA TU134 which was turned into a cafe in the car
park opposite the Billa supermarket in Olomouc, Czech Republic.
This too was sold on, and not sure where it ended up ?

Lance Shippey.

Less Hair 15th Dec 2020 16:32

Those two special Con Air Tu-134 mentioned were owned by Stasi right away not by the military TG-44 VIP and staff transport squadron. TG-44 operated it's own aircraft and helicopters both in Interflug and military colors. Like Tu-124, Tu-134, Tu-154 and Il-18 and Il-62 and Mil Mi-8. Stasi had it's own staff on TG-44's VVIP airplanes including Stasi body guards dressed as cabin crew.

The Tu-134 training airframe of former Aeroflot glory above never flew for Stasi. It just got used as a ground training tool for Stasi commandos.
The Cottbus museum mentioned is worth a visit. Run by former East German Air Force mechanics the airplane collection gets all the attention it needs.

gsa 16th Dec 2020 02:06

“There were a range of travel nuances. Allies (ie UK/USA/France) could quite readily get into East Berlin, but not beyond into the DDR.”

That was simply because the whole of the city of Berlin was classed as a military occupied city until the wall came down. When you went over to the east you really had to keep an eye on the boundaries and some were detained for getting it wrong. Another benefit was that the Vopo had no jurisdiction or any authority to stop the military so if they started the rule was for you to ask for a Russian officer. I only managed to get into the DDR once as I had to go to the Brixmis mission house in Potsdam and for that I got an ID card in Russian and got to go across the Glienicke bridge. The early 80s were interesting times.

Lance Shippey 16th Dec 2020 12:26

Timeline Willy Brandt 10th. November 1989.
10.45 Dep CGN/THF
12,20 ARR THF
Meeting with Egon Bahr, architect of Ost Poloitik, Gert Weisskirchen, Dietrich Stobbe and Hans Jochen Vogel
17.00 Speeches at the Town Hall Schoeneberg, Brandt well received, Helmut Kohl Jeered by crowd, at not
well received by the Berliners standing in J.F.Kennedy Platz.
18.00 Speeches over, at the town hall. Hans jochen Vogel askes Brandt if he has anything planned for the
evening, Brandt replies "No". Brandt is invited to go to East Berlin, and meet with members of the East
German Social Democrat Party, at the Christlichen Hospitz Albrectstrasse Hotel., next to Friedrichstrasse
Station. Brandt and his party of four whom arrived from Cologne with him depart by car to the border
crossing, where Brandt realises he has no passport with him. The car is allowed to drive through.
19.45 Meeting of Brandt, and members of the SDP (DDR) 13 people around an oval table, plus Barbara Klem,
a photographer, invited by Brandt.
21.00 Meeting ends, and party leave the Albrectstrasse Hotel for car journey back to West Berlin. On approaching
border crossing at Invalidenstrasse, find massive traffic jam, due to East Germans driving into west Berlin.
Brandt, his bodyguard Hans Wolfgang Zayc, Gabriele Holleder, Klaus Henning Rosen, and a security man
plus Barbara Klem get out of the car, and go on foot through the border crossing.
They then go to the Steigenberger Hotel on Los Angeles Platz, near Ku-Damm for an overnight stay.
11th November 1989.
08.30 Brandt and party of 4 leave TXL/CGN on scheduled flight (possibly BA)
The RAF 60 Squadron Andover could not have flown Brandt and party back to CGN. I wonder if crew were told that
no pax on a/c.?
Christlichen Hospitz der Albrectstrasse opened in 1910, and the last month of WW2 was an eye clinic of the Charite
Hospital. On September 13th 1964, Its restaurant was the venue for a let dinner given by the senior members of the
East German Church, and Dr Martin Luther King jnr. King had given a sermon in West Berlin earlier that day, when he
said " Here on the other side of the wall are God's children, and no man made barrier can obliterate that fact".
Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 16th Dec 2020 12:53

WHBM.
Re. Pan Am. The 737's were replaced by B727.200's, then 727's replaced by A300's
and later A310's The Channel Airways Trident only operated for several months from
March 1971. They went bust in 1972, and Dan Air took over most of the business.
The IGS were flown by.
USA.
Pan Am, Scheduled and Charter,
Pan Am Express (2x ATR 42's)
TWA Scheduled started in 1989.
Templehof Airways (From THF)
Air Berlin (based in USA) Florida if i remember.
Modern Air Charter.
GREAT BRITAIN.
BEA, became British Airways. used a/c from
BEA Mainline, BEA S 1-11 Div. BA Scottish div.
Dan Air Scheduled and Charter,
Laker Airways. Scheduled and Charter.
FRANCE
Air France Scheduled
Euro Berlin Scheduled and Charter. 51%Air France 49" Lufthansa.
I worked for BEA S1-11 (IGS) for a few years, before moving to LH.
There were also a few British civilian airlines operating trooping flights
in RAF Gatow.
Lance Shippey


Less Hair 16th Dec 2020 13:03

I remember an airline Aeroamerica with the Boeing 720 based at Tegel as well. The French had TAT, Air Alsace too and there was the civil Bo 105 rescue helicopter run by Omniflight USA. There used to be some Rockwell Commander shuttling from Tempelhof to Paderborn (Nixdorf) was this Tempelhof Airways already or somebody before?
Euroberlin France wet leased their fleet and pilots from Monarch. CC was local.

ATNotts 16th Dec 2020 14:21

Lance Shippey

Regarding your listing of IGS services, I believe I'm right in saying that it was Modern Air Transport rather than "Charter" and I believe operated CV-990s. Though Laker may have operated charters from Berlin, I don't recall them ever operating scheduled services, were they using 1-11s or the two 707-120Bs that they acquired in the 1970s?

Less Hair 16th Dec 2020 17:15

Laker had 1-11s in Berlin. And later even their odd Skytrain DC-10.

treadigraph 16th Dec 2020 20:23

Modern Air Transport certainly had CV-990s - might explain why they were listed in my first copies of Civil Aircraft Markings (1974 I think was the first I bought).

Lance Shippey 16th Dec 2020 22:14

Modern Air Transport or MAT. Headquarters MIA Also base at TXL. 2x CV990 Coronado's. and 1x HFB Hansa Jet (12 pax)
In operation 1968 - 1974 They operated TXL-Canary Islands on charter flts. They acquired to Hansa Jet in 1970, and operated
it TXL-SCN May to Nov. 1971. The service was re - launched in 1973 with 2x rtn flts per wk, using a CV990. This was not ideal
due to large a/c using Berlin Air Corridor at low flight level, and speed. All female cabin attendants known as "The Tiger Girls"
because of their uniforms being like a tiger marking. Used term Coronado for the 2x CV990's as they fed into SR/ZRH network.
Aeroamerica Headquarters SEA. also base at TXL 4x B720's 1 x B707 1 x BAC 1-11 401 They operated 1975 - 1979 at TXL,
ceased trading SEA in 1982. Stewardesses wore hot pants. The BAC 1-11 was purchased from AA and operated in 1976. Big
problems with the Flight attendants, as they wanted parity salary to Pan Am IGS. Some went on strike, and airline replaced
them with girls from from an unnamed British airline.
Templehof Airways.Headquarters FLL Also base at THF. 1981 - 1990. Operated a Nord 262 THF-PAD. in 1985 originally operated
charters for Nixdorf Company. also operated Cessna 441, and 6 x Saab 340's 100 employees and 100,000 annual pax. Also
operated THF/BRU and THF/HAM to connect with AA long haul flts.
Laker. Headquarters LGW. Also base at TXL. Charter flights operated under Laker GmbH. based 3 x BAC1-11, which were replaced
by a A300 B4. employed 90 local staff. They operated to the Med and Canary Islands, however had scheduled licence LGW/TXL
2 x times daily. also LGW/ZRH and MAN/ZRH. The MAN/ZRH operated in 1981. The LGW/TXL and LGW/ZRH did not start to
operate, as the Airline went bust on 8th Feb 1982. (I was pax on the second to last flight JFK/MAN/LGW. (DC10) The MAN/ZRH
flight was awarded to Dan Air.
Euro Berlin used Monarch Aircraft, but eventually painted in Euro Berlin Markings.
Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 16th Dec 2020 22:55

TXL's LH B707 is now in part of the woodland at the end of the runway. The B707 was originally operated by El Al and Arkia,
before going back to Boeing. As a thank you to Lufthansa on delivery of their 200th Boeing aircraft, they decided to gift the
707 to Berlin as part of Berlin's 750th birthday celebrations. LH requested Boeing to paint it in Lufthansa's 1960 colours.
The problem was how to get it through the Berlin Corridor to TXL. So LH got an American Captain to fly it at night, with all
the LH markings being covered with white plastic tape. when it arrived at TXL the white plastic was removed. And "Shock
Horror" when the East Germans learned of a LH 707 being parked at Tegel.

The ADAC (German Automobile Club) had a rescue helicopter based at TXL. This had an American pilot.

Lance Shippey


tubby linton 17th Dec 2020 12:13

The Monarch aircraft were all painted in euroberlin colours from day one. Initially they had euroberlin France titles but the word France disappeared around 1990.
I was flying earlies that day and on the journey to Tegel every bank the crewbus passed was surrounded by people waiting for them to open. DDR citizens were given 100DM each they came to the west Begrüßungsgeld and the banks soon ran out of cash.

Lance Shippey 17th Dec 2020 17:44

Dear Tubby,
Thanks for the info re. the EE aircraft. I was not aware that they were immediately
delivered in EuroBerlin colours, as I had often seen Monarch B737's in Monarch
colours based at TXL I have since learned were 2 x B737-200 were the first new
jets delivered to Monarch by Bavaria Leasing, which was part of Hapag Lloyd, and
to be operated by Monarch on behalf of Flug Union from TXL. Monarch would take
over the void when Laker collapsed on Feb 8th 1982.
I am interested to know if you were flying for both EE and Monarchs IT flts, and if the
flight crews for EE were based in Germany ? I was sorry to hear that Monarch ceased
to trade I used them on long haul a few times. A friend of mine who worked for BMI
said that once BD started charging for meals and drink, and airlines were charging
more for checked baggage than the airfare itself, was the writing on the wall.

Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 17th Dec 2020 18:35

Dear Less Hair,
Re TAT Flights To SAR, These were operated by TAT Export, which was
a subsidiary company of TAT. They had flight numbers starting with "IO"
TAT used Flight prefix "VD". (Not the ideal prefix for English speakers)
Dan air took over the service. On 11th May 1990, they injured several
passengers when the captain "Bob Dearling" had to avoid a head on
collision with a U.S.A F. fighter. Passengers were thrown from their seats.
I remember a DA flight LGW/TXL B737 piloted by a female captain, which
at the time was very very unusual. She flew for BA when DA and BA
became one. I flew several times with her. She never failed to disappoint
with her heavy landings. I was always impressed with Boeing for building
such a strong aircraft.
You may be interested in the website.
www.danairrembered.com other incidents.
The contents may put you off flying for ever.
Lance Shippey

tubby linton 17th Dec 2020 19:56

Lance,
Thank you for your kind words about Monarch. There were some pilots and engineers based in Berlin but the majority of pilots were sent from the Uk on weekly tours. We also flew IT out of the UK and in Winter 89 we also had a lease to Guatemala.The Berlin based cabin crew were French and German employed by euroberlin.
The fleet was all B737-300 with a mix of analogue and efis aircraft and I think we had seven there at one point.The long term plan was to replace them with B757 but then the wall came down and the world changed overnight.
The euroberlin operation was primarily internal flights the shortest being Hamburg , the longest Munich Riem but there were also weekend holiday charters to the Canaries and also flights to Turkey with gastarbeiter. We also flew a service to Gatwick for a short time on behalf of LH.
I once flew a midnight sun flight to Tromso in Norway from Berlin.We never saw the sun that night as it was drizzling!

Fris B. Fairing 17th Dec 2020 20:25

Apologies for the thread drift but what is there not to love about the CV990? Here is Modern Air's N5617 powering off the gate at Oakland on 10 August 1973.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c9ee865f4d.jpg

BEagle 18th Dec 2020 08:53

Correct website address for Dan Air remembered is: https://www.danairremembered.com/


Lance Shippey 18th Dec 2020 09:45

Fris B. Fairling and BEagle
Thanks for the correct web connection for the great Dan Air remembered site.
The photograph of the Modern Air Transport CV990 in Oakland with the engine
exhaust smoke brought back memories of the Swissair CV990 Coronado's which
were used of the MAN/ZRH route, before being replaced by DC9's I think only
Swissair and Modern Air Transport referred to them as "Coronado" There is
a beautiful example of a SR CV990 at the Verkehrsmuseum in Luzern, which
was partly delivered from ZRH to Luzern by boat on the vierwaldstaettersee,
(Lake Luzern).

Lance Shippey

WHBM 18th Dec 2020 10:37

The notable thing about the Berlin corridor routes coming up to the fall of the wall is how rapidly they were expanding. TWA came in quite late in the day, EuroBerlin started up, Dan-Air notably expanded their schedules, Pan Am put the A300 on, etc. Nobody seemed to be reducing either. Yet I was at Tegel just maybe two years later and it was a complete rollover, with Lufthansa dominating. Notable also was how services to non-German cities was significantly building up, where previously there were hardly any. I presume the corridor routes subsidy only applied to West German destinations.

Comments above about various holiday charter operators, but as elsewhere they changed emphasis pretty much from year to year and trying to condense it all into a paragraph is not really practical. But I will put in a word for Tempelhof, the main airport for the city until 1975 when the new terminal opened at Tegel and everything transferred over. It had a bit of a renaissance after 1990 and I used a convenient little service on a 146 by Conti-Flug from London City a couple of times. THF was even closer in than LCY, it was like having an airport in Kensington Gardens, just walk out into streets, past the shops and into the U-Bahn on the corner. I was there last year and went to see it; the terminal building is just as always but nothing going on, probably how it was from 1975-90. Shame it's gone; I believe a lot of Berlin thinks the same.

condor17 18th Dec 2020 12:26

WHBM ,
''The notable thing about the Berlin corridor routes coming up to the fall of the wall is how rapidly they were expanding '' .
Certainly BA were , we'd already started TXL-BRU with ATPs , and about to start TXL-VIE again ATPs when collapse occured . We'd also had some f/os banned from corridor flying when accents on r/t were questioned , notably an Aussie and a Dane . One 73s 't other ATPs . Made more work for crew control .

rgds condor .



Lance Shippey 18th Dec 2020 17:01

Hi condor17,
Great hearing from you again. I just tried to post message on the Geoffrey Hargreaves story
did the message didn't go through, I will try again later.
With reference to the Corridor. and the Australian and Danish pilots not being able to be on
flights. An interesting bit of information was recently to come to light about the Hughie Green
Cessna 310 corridor f He was flying from the Stuttgart area to Gatow.
27 nm from Berlin, he encountered two soviet a/c 1 x Mig, and 1 (possibly Yak) They opened
fire with 6 shots. Evasive flying caused him the loss of an engine. He finally made it to Gatow.
He had big problems getting clearance to fly the 310 back through the corridor, so returned to
England on a BEA Viscount. and after two weeks returned to Berlin with BEA, and eventually
got clearance to leave Gatow via the Hanover corridor. Hugh Green had a Canadian Passport.
The last one was number PZ345435 1992-1997. He was born in London England. but I am not
sure if he had a British Passport as well as the Canadian one in 1963 when the shooting took
place. He Blamed the British Government for not warning him that the Soviets may object to
his flight plan. The British Government made a settlement "Out of Court" for £300. in his favour.

Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 19th Dec 2020 12:39

Hughie Green.
The Cessna 310f was G-AROK, and apparently suffered
left engine failure do the turbulence caused by the YAK's
sonic boom causing the aircraft to fly almost inverted. The
Cessna was imported in 1961 under N5848X.
Afterwards Hughie bought a Cessna 336 skymaster through
Rogers Aviation at Cranfield. Registered G-ASLL. with the
owner G. and M Air interests. The M. was Michael Miles, who
was also a game show host.
Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 26th Dec 2020 10:37

West Berlin Mayor Walter Momper knew of the fall of the Wall 10 days before it would fall.
Oct 26th.1989 (Sunday). Manfred Stolpe leading figure of the Protestant church in the GDR
acting as "Go-between" invites West Berlin Mayor Walter Momper to lunch in the Rose
Parlour of the Palast hotel in East Berlin. The other invited guests are Guenter Schabowski
SED leader, and Erhard Krack, Mayor of East Berlin. They are to discuss the GDR's new
Travel law and, extra border crossings to be opened. Schabowski gives Momper a date of
Dec.1st as the earliest They also discuss Erich Honecker being "The furthest removed from
the reality of his country". and the Free German Trade Union Federation's leader and Polit
Buro member Harry Tisch's liking for alcohol. Harry had flown to Moscow on Oct. 16th. and
discussed the overthrown of Erich Honecker with Gorbachev. November 6th. West Berlin's
Mayor Momper, reliant financially of Helmut Kohl's Bonn government writes a three page
letter to Kohl, requesting that "Welcome money" (Begruessungsgeld) to paid into the GDR's
State Bank. They in turn would hand it over to those East Germans intending to visit West
Germany. The letter to Kohl never arrived at Kohl's office, possibly having been intercepted
by the Stasi. The meeting of Momper and Schabowski does not remain a secret for long.
Nov.3rd. The Allies were miffed and annoyed that unauthorised talks had taken place behind
their backs. Harry Gilmore, U.S. envoy urges Momper to report to the Allies.

Lance Shippey


Lance Shippey 26th Dec 2020 11:08

Welcome Money and the USAF.
Begruessungsgeld of Dmk100.00 was made available to every GDR citizen visiting
West Germany. After the fall of the wall on the night of Nov.9th 1989. East Germans
could claim their money at any West German bank. West Berlin Mayor Momper thought
that there would be sufficient cash in the West Berlin banks, as the East Germans would
use the money immediately, and it would go back into the West Berlin banks. This was
however not the case. The west Berliner's were very generous, and hardly allowed the
visiting East Berliners to put their hand in their pockets. 4 Billion Dmk's was paid out by
West Berlin banks in 7 weeks until Dec. 29th 1989. The banks were open 24/7. and
running out of cash. The USAF flew 4 tons of Dmk's from Frankfurt to West Berlin on a
military aircraft one night. West Berlin also had to print 250,000 street maps for use by
the GDR visitors.
Guenther Schabowski and East German Union leader Harry Tisch appear to be two of
a minority of East German "Fat Cats" who showed any form of remorse after the downfall.
and said "They regretted the injustices that had taken place in the GDR. In 1993 Tisch
said " "We preached water, and drank wine ourselves".

i'm aware that the Andover of 60 Squadron did not deliver Willy Brandt back to Cologne
on the night of November 10th. and would like to know if Capt. Dodson, knew that Willy
and party were not on board, and was the flight plan lodged for a flight THF/CGN, or a
direct flight THF/Wildenrath? Also what happened to the Burgermeisters who were flown
Wildenrath to CGN that morning, how did they get back from CGN to Wildenrath ?

Lance Shippey


Lance Shippey 29th Dec 2020 05:34

November 9th 1989, Helmut Kohl and most of his cabinet were on
a State Visit to Poland, and attending a State dinner in the evening
of the wall falling. The Kohl government decided to fly to Berlin on
the 10th November and return to Poland on the 11th November.
Kohl's advisors decide at 12.45 on the 10th Nov. that they some of
them would fly back at 14.00hrs at the earliest., but are not sure if
the Captain knows that their departure has been brought forward
to 14.00hrs. No food had been ordered for the flight, and the Polish
government allow an immediate take off once Kohl and party reach
the aircraft, The problem of course was the corridor. Kohl and party
had to make a detour via Hamburg.
How did Kohl fly from HAM to BER ? Was it with a USAF or RAF
military a/c or civilian PA or BE special flight ?
Lance Shippey

Lance Shippey 29th Dec 2020 05:45

SXF Approach and Tower frequencies.
I would like to know from anyone who has flown into SXF if
ATC communications were in German. or German and English,
or German and Russian.? I realise that English is standard,
but remember at FRA ATC communications were in English
and German. I also recall a case at MAN, when a Russian
speaking check-in girl was called to the tower, to assist a pilot
who was lost on approach, and had very minimal English.
Lance Shippey.

Less Hair 29th Dec 2020 07:46

Kohl is said to have used some USAF aircraft to go from Hamburg to Tempelhof after having arrived from Poland on his Luftwaffe airplane. This was negotiated with the US Ambassador in Bonn. I think he typically used a USAF Sabreliner to commute to Berlin back then.
https://www.dw.com/de/gastbeitrag-de...ete/a-51142949

Lance Shippey 29th Dec 2020 09:27

Dear Less Hair,
Thanks for this excellent link.
My questions well answered
Lance Shippey

Less Hair 29th Dec 2020 09:32

You are welcome. I appreciate your excellent input very much.

Lance Shippey 30th Dec 2020 21:24

C.I.A. declassified documents reported that the
border crossing at Walterdorfer strasse opened
in 1963 linking West Berlin to SXF had 180.000
pax using the border crossing in 1970.
Also importantly that Interflug had started a new
service in 1970 which was not announced in any
airline guide (ABC or AOG) nor in the press.
The flight was SXF-Ulaanbataar Mongolia,
The Mongolians established an embassy in GDR
in Karlshorst A relationship existed because of a
similar ideology. The Mongolians opened an Embassy
in the FRG in Troisdorf in 1974.
Lance Shippey

WHBM 31st Dec 2020 06:06


Originally Posted by Lance Shippey (Post 10957371)
Also importantly that Interflug had started a new
service in 1970 which was not announced in any
airline guide (ABC or AOG) nor in the press.
The flight was SXF-Ulaanbataar Mongolia,
The Mongolians established an embassy in GDR
in Karlshorst A relationship existed because of a
similar ideology.

Sort of. The "flight", fully marketed by Interflug, was on their (brand new that year) Ilyushin 62 from Schonefeld to Moscow, then onward on an Aeroflot IL-18, not even a jet, stopping at Irkutsk to Ulan Bator in Mongolia. It did appear in the 1970 Interflug timetable, here :

if70-10.jpg (1919×1341) (timetableimages.com)

Trivia question for New Year : In 1970 there was one airline, BEA, who flew nonstop from West Berlin THF to London Heathrow, but two separate airlines which flew nonstop (yes) schedules from East Berlin Schonefeld to London Heathrow. Which ones were they ? Bonus mark for the aircraft type.

Less Hair 31st Dec 2020 06:38

LOT and Aeroflot? Possibly Tu-124?

WHBM 31st Dec 2020 06:55

LOT is one of them. Neither flight used the Tu-124.


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