Antonov AN-124-100?
Afternoon All
With recently watching a you tube video on the Antonov AN-124-100, with far as I know there is the standard flight deck crew of five. How many extra crew do they normally carry? in the video it looked like an extra eight plus one of them was sitting what looked like a radio operatives position, but this was not on the flight deck but way back down the aircraft? |
Was it a Russian Air Force machine ? As far as the civilian workhorses go it would just be the loadmasters and any odds and sods outside of the main crew.
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An124-100 Crew.
Hi,
When I started working with Antonov Design Bureau (ADB) on the 124-100, we would trundle around with a total crew of.......22. at the pointy end, there were: 2 pilots, 1 Navigator, 2 Flight Engineers and 1 Radio Operator. Therefore,a basic operating flight deck crew of 6. To this we had an extra pilot and an extra navigator for "long days." In addition, up front we had 1 Western Flight Manager (Air Foyle's rep.,) and 1 Ukrainian Flight Manager (ADB.) So, pointy end = 10. In the rear compartment, there was 1 Loadmaster and 11 Technicians/Loading crew. which puts us up to the 22. Over a period of a few years, we AF Flight Managers put it across that if some of the Techies were cross trained it would save the company roundabout $4 million per year. The crew was then reduced to 18, knocking off 4 techies. It does seem a lot of people, but remember, the techies were also the loaders, and with the type of aeroplane, the aircraft equipment and systems plus the type of loads we carried, western ways of doing things etc., would not have worked. On quite a few ocaisions we have taken over 24 hours to load, (we didn't have unions), and that was not due to the loaders being slack, but due to the complexity of the load. We started the load and did not stop until it was all on. Meals taken in shifts. I was proud of the time I worked with ADB and the work we all did. A very strong, dependable aeroplane as is the 225. Cheers the noo,:ok: alt |
aloominumtoob
Thanks for the information much appreciated, i was looking on you tube and was watching a video about Antonov Design Bureau An 124 it was a very interesting documentary about the aircraft. Have seen a number of these aircraft in the UK and never fail to impress me. |
I am pretty sure there isn't any AN-124 based in the UK. Obviously you have the odd cargo operation but I'm afraid with only the Ukrainian being able to keep them flying the visits will be rare. |
No there is not any UK based AN-124 to my knowledge, they come to the UK quite frequently the first one I saw was in the 90's.
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Sure But out of the 50 remaining airframes I guess the only one you might see anymore are the 7 operated by Antonov. Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK. Just trying to say that this will very likely be a rarer sighting. |
We had 3 in at Farnborough once to transport Land Rovers to Siberia for some motoring competion.
They all flew in from Ukraine, loaded the Land Rovers, and departed direct to Siberia without re-fuelling. That's some fuel load! Air Foyle operated them under contract but none were based in the UK. When they were asked to transport freight into Farnborough for the airshow one year, Air Foyle refused saying the runway wasn't long enough. When the Antonov design bureau heard this, they said 'no problem' and their Chief Test Pilot flew the freight into Farnborough, Air Foyle having tried to take out an injunction to stop them. I saw the letter the CTP sent to the high court to refute Air Foyle's objections. |
There are some great stories about the Antonov's capabilities in Matt Potters book "Outlaws Inc."
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Was working in SIN in the early 90s and got to see the mighty AN-124 in action. This was a time of change for the Soviet Union and for the most part its people were still treated like back in the good old days of the Iron Curtain (eg risk of them claiming asylum was not accepted by Russia as well as the visiting country!). Their crew would stay with the aircraft and even perform maintenance tasks like removing and servicing components until it was time to depart, I would imagine these would have been the techies/loadies and the crew would be safe in their bunks getting some rest. We would go to the aircraft and there would be some trading .. our fine Casio watches for a mechanical Russian watch for instance. There usually had a goodish supply of Russian aluminium badges/medals with military designs and for the very brave...liquor! They would ask for USD but would eventually setlle for SGD.
The loadies were required to operate the interior cranes and to sequence the load according to the load-masters instructions, it was good to watch how well they worked together.. not much uneccessary shouting and drama.. just whistles and a few calls. Very proffessional The loadmaster worked from a wooden table and chair that they carried along with them. Anilv |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10508094)
Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK. My exposure to AirBridge was pretty favorable (they bought several 747-8F). Slight thread drift - I recall a plan to build some new AN-124s using western engines - specifically CF6-80C2 engines. Did that all fall apart? I used to see the occasional AN-124 flying in and out of Boeing Field, usually to deliver Trent 800 engines for new build 777s when Rolls got a bit behind. The takeoff performance when they departed definitely left a bit to be desired, so I figured a re-engine would result in a much better aircraft. |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10508094)
Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a5266e84a5.jpg https://www.airliners.net/photo/Volg...Ruslan/5561005 |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10507984)
I am pretty sure there isn't any AN-124 based in the UK. Obviously you have the odd cargo operation but I'm afraid with only the Ukrainian being able to keep them flying the visits will be rare. |
Originally Posted by aloominumtoob
(Post 10507951)
Hi,
When I started working with Antonov Design Bureau (ADB) on the 124-100, we would trundle around with a total crew of.......22. at the pointy end, there were: 2 pilots, 1 Navigator, 2 Flight Engineers and 1 Radio Operator. Therefore,a basic operating flight deck crew of 6. To this we had an extra pilot and an extra navigator for "long days." In addition, up front we had 1 Western Flight Manager (Air Foyle's rep.,) and 1 Ukrainian Flight Manager (ADB.) So, pointy end = 10. In the rear compartment, there was 1 Loadmaster and 11 Technicians/Loading crew. which puts us up to the 22. Over a period of a few years, we AF Flight Managers put it across that if some of the Techies were cross trained it would save the company roundabout $4 million per year. The crew was then reduced to 18, knocking off 4 techies. It does seem a lot of people, but remember, the techies were also the loaders, and with the type of aeroplane, the aircraft equipment and systems plus the type of loads we carried, western ways of doing things etc., would not have worked. On quite a few ocaisions we have taken over 24 hours to load, (we didn't have unions), and that was not due to the loaders being slack, but due to the complexity of the load. We started the load and did not stop until it was all on. Meals taken in shifts. I was proud of the time I worked with ADB and the work we all did. A very strong, dependable aeroplane as is the 225. Cheers the noo,:ok: alt As engineers, we were fascinated by the interior and systems on display, plus the high tech broom !. One of the more interesting flights I've been on.......also notable was the, ahem, demarcation between front and rear crews. Have to say those guys worked hard though, laying out the ramps isn't a light task and we noticed they opened the cowls on the T/R at Woodford. Here's one, of several, clips showing our arrival at Woodford and emptying the contents of the hold......it has to be said the landing was "firm "..... |
The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ? Be lucky David |
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur
(Post 10508716)
The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ? Be lucky David |
Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur
(Post 10508716)
The AN-225 is even more impressive. Rumour was a bit back that the Chinese were intending to complete the second one, any one know if they’ve started yet ? Be lucky David In the hold was a large dining table covered in empty bottles (mostly vodka/white rum etc) And it was supposed to be flying in the display 2 hours later! Not surprisingly it was a 'no show', even though BAe said they would pay the fuel bill. |
Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 10508125)
We had 3 in at Farnborough once to transport Land Rovers to Siberia for some motoring competion.
They all flew in from Ukraine, loaded the Land Rovers, and departed direct to Siberia without re-fuelling. That's some fuel load! |
Two VDA An-124s due at Leipzig tomorrow (and one in Paris a couple of days ago), so definitely no ban on them operating in European airspace.
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Originally Posted by TCU
(Post 10508908)
You must have missed the bowser Chevvron, The Volga-Dnepr Group quotes range at max payload as 4,500km. Wiki gives it a maximum range (payload not noted) of 5,200km.
This was in the days before TAG. Farnborough Business Aviation (FBA) operated the FBO from a small enclave south side with DERA/MOD operating north side. FBA had a single 5000l bowser and limited underground tankage, about 12,000l I think, just sufficient to service their normal bizjets. This wouldn't be sufficient to supply 3 aircraft like AN124s. DERA wouldn't have been able to help; they were only keeping minimum amount of AVTUR for their own needs as they were about to move to Boscombe Down. Even a couple of years later when FBA had got a bigger bowser and DERA flying had gone, they were asked to re-fuel a visting C5 Galaxy (transporting POTUS helicopters) and after emptying their bowser twice said that was all they could do. |
Originally Posted by TCU
(Post 10508908)
You must have missed the bowser Chevvron, The Volga-Dnepr Group quotes range at max payload as 4,500km. Wiki gives it a maximum range (payload not noted) of 5,200km.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Russ...-Ruslan/758578 |
Pity they didn't build more of them TBH - they're a very useful aircraft when you need them for something outsize -especially if you're thinking of somewhere a bit out of the way................
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10509203)
It's probably just about doable. The Range Rovers were reportedly bound for the Trans Siberian Rally, which actually starts in Moscow.
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Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10508094)
Sure But out of the 50 remaining airframes I guess the only one you might see anymore are the 7 operated by Antonov. Volga-Dnepr can not operate in the European airspace anymore and I don't expect the Russian airforce to do much cargo moving in the UK. Just trying to say that this will very likely be a rarer sighting. The Maximus Air Cargo one is still very active also. |
Originally Posted by GLIDER 90
(Post 10508073)
No there is not any UK based AN-124 to my knowledge, they come to the UK quite frequently the first one I saw was in the 90's.
I believe photos exist of Heavylift AN-124s Hope it helps. Be lucky David |
The AvgasDinosaur
Thanks for that, the first one I saw was in the 90's when I worked at East Midlands Airport a impressive aircraft to watch. Like someone said in an earlier post they are frequent visitors to EMA. one was at RAF Waddington the other week. |
AN-124 at RAF Waddington, 23rd June 2019.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10508984)
Two VDA An-124s due at Leipzig tomorrow (and one in Paris a couple of days ago), so definitely no ban on them operating in European airspace.
If the manufacturer recedes their type certificate I'm not quite sure how they can operate (but not a lawyer and certainly not here to start a political discussion) |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10509771)
What do you make to this ?
If the manufacturer recedes their type certificate I'm not quite sure how they can operate (but not a lawyer and certainly not here to start a political discussion) Clearly Ukraine has no jurisdiction over airspace or territory other than its own, so it's hardly in a position to "arrest" the aircraft or stop it operating in Europe or elsewhere (as we have seen). Just part of the ongoing spat between Ukraine and Russia. |
Aircraft without a valid TC or CoA can be denied to enter a national airspace by that national aviation authority under the 1944 UN Chigaco Agreement Also, I don't think they will be insured by any insurance broker or company.
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As type certificate holders for the An-124, the Ukranian company can certainly stop the type from flying by withdrawing said certificate. But the fact that this is going through the courts implies that normal communication lines are not being used, and it may be more of a political action than an airworthiness related one. The type most likely is seen as a strategic asset by the Russian side, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that they have taken steps to 'disconnect' the Russian operation from any Ukranian influence, as is implied by the original article linked to in the thread that atakacs referenced.
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga
(Post 10510127)
As type certificate holders for the An-124, the Ukranian company can certainly stop the type from flying by withdrawing said certificate.
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VDA's RA-82044 heading NW across Essex at 26000 and climbing as I type...
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Well I guess the ultimate test will be how long the Russians will be able to keep the engines serviceable without Ukrainian support. To be honest the whole thing is a bit crazy but what do I know... |
The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use. Teesside Airport's one and only IL-76 was a Heavylift one with Nissan engines so they did do some cargo work. |
Originally Posted by N707ZS
(Post 10510799)
Teesside Airport's one and only IL-76 was a Heavylift one with Nissan engines so they did do some cargo work.
perhaps later in the contract the CAA became more flexible? I honestly don’t know. Hope it helps Be lucky David |
I was on good terms at one time with several Heavylift crew members, certainly at the beginning of the operation, they IL-76s were strictly call out for oil spill and crew training. The crews were accommodated in some very large caravans near Duxford. Mobile home sized beasts, but just how mobile I’m not sure. perhaps later in the contract the CAA became more flexible? I honestly don’t know. The Herc crew were billeted at the Flint Cross Hotel near Duxford. The Russians lived in an old manor house near Bishops Stortford, plus some accommodation in Saffron Walden. I don't remember any crews living in caravans. Also late lamented Heavylift had their logo on a couple of AN-124s for a spell. The IL-76s that wore Heavylift colours were dedicated to Oil Spill support work and not available for commercial use. I believe photos exist of Heavylift AN-124s |
Any more context about this picture? |
Choice.
:E Yes, well take the one in the middle!:ugh::E
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Not 100% but this looks like Leipzig (but on the passengers terminal side, not cargo). In any case don't know what the picture is supposed to depict (except for the probably rare confluence on 5 an124 at a given place)? |
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