Suggestions welcome
 

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....daf014ca06.jpg

Asking for a frined: Any suggestions of type and likey year of ops for these three?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1eb21ef979.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....71d2a62af8.jpg

Middle - Blackburn Beverley when preserved at Museum of Army Transport, Beverley. Now moved to Fort Paull and the only survivor.
Other two are an Andover and Hercules...

Hard to be sure, but looks like a 46 Squadron tail badge on the Andover, so likely taken in the late '60s.

Grand, thanks for the ID. I knew the Herc but not the other two. I am amused that the men standing around the Herc and Andover are not concerned about their hearing! I confess, I did know that they were taken in Anguilla in 1970. The man who took them was in the Royal Engineers and involved in construction a new pontoon and other items.

Treadi,

That photo wasn't taken at the Beverley museum. It looks more like XH124 at Hendon that was subsequently scrapped. You're quite right that XB259 was at Beverley and as the sole survivor is now at Fort Paull.

CAEBr

Agree with the Hendon location as that looks like the later refurbished Graham White shed in the background.

Rob

Sorry, yes you are right, that doesn't look anything like the Beverley at Hendon as I remember it in front of the main entrance, but it looks as though they moved it several times between it's arrival and scrapping.

Only glimpse of the Beverley at MOAT Beverley I had was the tops of the fins from a train...

It's definitely Hendon, there wasn't that much space at Beverley or any grass as I recall, just concrete.

Ex RAE Farnborough; originally sold to Autair/Court Line and delivered to Luton when retired. Shortly afterwards, Court Line went bust and the Beverley was flown from Luton to Paull airfield, Hull (670m long) in March 1974 by a crew from RAE Farnborough.

Certainly Hendon, but not the G-W building - I'm fairly certain that it's one of the 1930s buildings, currently used as the Museum workshop. I'd suggest a date between 1968 (when it arrived) and 1978, when the Battle of Britain Museum opened.

Had not heard of Fort Paull, so looked it up. Craning the Beverley in must have been sight? It's a chunk beast.

Not really relevant as it's a different airframe but I, along with many others, wonder about the long-time survival prospects of XB259 at Fort Paull.
I understand the reasons for wanting it there, close to where it was built, but it's also close to a saltwater estuary.
I believe Elvington offered it a home at the time and I can't help thinking it would have had a better chance of a long life-span there.

Don't forget it went to Leconfield for many years when Paull closed so it must have been dismantled and 'roaded' for both moves.

Great photos, thanks for sharing them. Going off-topic a little: anyone know the reason, if any, for the white area around the cockpit on all three machines? Looks at odds with the camouflage on the rest of the aircraft?

I believe it was meant to keep the flight deck a bit cooler than it otherwise would have been.

It was indeed dismanted twice, though it's a tad misleading to say it went to Leconfield as the Museum of Army Transport was in fact bang in the centre of Beverley, where the Flemingate shopping centre now is.

There's a good view of the aircraft (and the Minster) in this video:

Thanks - it was ridiculously big!

Re the RAF Andover. I recall seeing an RAF Andover in for servicing at Woodford in 1966. Walking past the hangar I was assailed by a nose-wrinkling smell from the aircraft. Yet maintenance people working in and around the aircraft apparently accepted the smell as SOP for an RAF aircraft? That aircraft was still there several days later and the smell was overpowering. Turned out the Elsen Toilet can was full of.faeces from the time it was flown in. An industrial dispute arose on who should clean out the can. The RAF crew who had flown the Andover to Woodford or the maintenance staff? The result was an impasse for a week or so. Pretty disgusting. I don't know how it ended. Thought I would share it with readers..

So that's why they sold them to the RNZAFhttps://www.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif

Ah yes, that makes sense. Cheers.

Being cynical, I thought it might be to help the bad guys' aim! :E It somewhat spoils the whole camouflage idea.

What I have always found strange about the "white cockpit roof" mod is that other air forces did not follow suit. For example, US aircraft in Vietnam, operating in a very hot climate, were camouflaged all over, in darker colours, which would absorb more heat than the RAF's desert camouflage.

Does anyone know the history of this idea?

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Caption says it all. I have mislaid the detail that was stored on the back.

Flypast was I think for the withdrawl of Ansons from RAF service to be replaced by Bassets.:eek:
RAF Devons had a white top to the cockpit whereas civil Doves didn't.:ok:

Yes, it took place on 28th June 1968.

According to this source

Faithful Annie - the Avro Anson

the formation consisted of 5 C.19s and a single T.21, but I'm blowed if I can discern which one was the latter.

Looking at the cockpit glazing there are three with one design (and some sort of black bulge: ADF loop?) and three with a different design.

And Bovingdon closed a few months later.
It was my 'local' airfield where us ATC cadets would scrounge flights during summer hols; I flew in VL337 and PH859, though whether they're in that formation I don't know.
One of the Bovingdon Annies was temporarily painted camouflage and was seen in the closing stages of the film 'Mosquito Squadron' which was made at Bovingdon.
As for the difference between a C19 and a T21; not a lot, both types having 2 seats at the front facing forwards and 6 at the back facing backwards and both smelt the same.

Yes, the black bulge is an ADF loop.

Anson photos on the 'Net don't seems to show any consistent differences between the C.19 and T.21 - some have no ADF loop at all, some have one just behind the cockpit roof glazing (both as in the photo) and some have the ADF loop further aft with an astrodome forward of it.

Seeing the "best messages" thread over on the military forum reminds me that as the prototype Beverley levitated on its maiden flight, Blackburn CTP Harold "Timber" Wood allegedly turned to his co-pilot and said "well, my side's airborne - is yours?"

The T.21 was a nav trainer with an astrodome, more or less in line with the first pax window behind the cockpit. Photos show many had the astrodome removed, and make it very difficult to distinguish from the C.19 communications version.

So what was the Mk 20?

I presume you refer to the T.20. That was a variant of the Mk XIX to meet Air Ministry Specification T.24/46 for an overseas navigation trainer, one pilot two wireless operators (one trainee and one instructor) and five navigator positions (three trainees and two instructors). Used for bombing and navigation training in Southern Rhodesia, 60 built.

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Continuing with my father's collection. No details for this.

Fairey Albacore.

Vague memory that test pilot Dinty Moore (father of Skysport Engineering's Tim Moore?) was test flying an Applecore when its engine departed the airframe completely; he somehow force landed it with no further damage...

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The hotel, according to the album!

Great, thanks DRUK. Next in the album is a routine shot of Croydon airfield at some point in the 1930s. My grandfather sold aircraft there and we'll see some examples as we go through - and as time permits me to sort them out.

Aircraft in that shot is a DH-85 Leopard Moth...

Aerodrome side of the Croydon Airport Hotel. Looks a bit tatty, could it possibly be post-war?

Keep 'em coming, great stuff!

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I know its an Airspeed Envoy, the key part is: My paternal grandmother (whom I never knew) my father (already tall by his mid teens) and my Uncle Rodney (whom I also never knew). Their stories are for another day.

Thank you treadigraph. I don't think it's post war as my grandparents both died in the war (V2 in the back garden, October 1944) although my father may well have returned to Croydon airfield to see friends of his father. So one more before another full week of work keeps me away from this enjoyable pastime.

Hi Paxboy. That's not an Airspeed Envoy, first thought was it's a retractable or at least a trouserless version of the Percival Q6 but the glazing doesn't look right. Certainly looks like Gipsy engines of one type or another.

Trying to fit it to Croydon as well. Shadows suggest early morning looking SW or late evening looking NE - background hills look rather rural for the surrounding area in the 1930s. Bit in front of the nose might be Croham Hurst looking ENE from the aerodrome but, as I know from regular walks, the Hurst slopes quite steeply! Just a thought - might it be Shoreham, looking NE towards Truleigh Hill, houses on the other side of the River Adur?

Edit: It's the Miles M.8 Peregrine!