Vickers Viscount pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
 

The Viscount is my favourite aeroplane. Although I never had the opportunity to fly on one, I believe it is still largely held in high esteem by professionals who worked with the aircraft. I would be interested to read any stories from such folk. Was it a good pilot's aeroplane or was it a pig to fly ? Was the impact of four Dart engines at full tilt an issue in the passenger cabin or barely noticeable ? An engineer's dream or nightmare ?

My Viscount experience is limited to seeing numerous examples from Northeast, BA, BMA and BAF at Leeds Bradford over the years. Plus the occasional Dan-Air machine too. It would be nice to add to that experience with some hands-on stuff too. Thankyou.

The Viscount was a fabulous aircraft to fly on, though I only had one opportunity LHR-LHR on a post-maintenance airtest, complete with stalls and an IFSD. :O

My first ever flight was in a Viscount - BEA G-AMOH in 1960 & the next in G-AOFX, from Guernsey to Jersey return. After that, I flew on them many times, including all of BEA’s 806s ( several times each) & most of the 802s. Only one international route, ELLX to EGLL. All the others were domestic - mostly out of Guernsey & Jersey to EGLL & HI with BEA/BAW. But, also out of EGKK with BUA on 700 & 800s ; & flights to EGMC with Channel Airways on the 700 & 800. Must have made about 100 flights in all. Wonderfully comfortable a/c & very scenic views from those large windows. 4 darts never caused any noise issues for the pax. No vibration either, unlike the Vanguard !

Capital Viscount
 

Like kcockayne (we're both a youthful sixty-eight!), my very first flight was aboard a Capital Airlines Viscount. I was simultaneously frightened to death and transfixed with curiosity of taking wing. This was in 1955, the first year Capital operated the type. They were the first U.S. airline to do so.

I vaguely recall the excellent view afforded by the large ovoid windows and remember with amazing clarity the cockpit door remaining open for the entirety of the flight from New York's Idlewild to Washington D.C.'s National. Any passenger interested in viewing the cockpit was welcome, and every soul on board was dressed to the 9's! The good old days, yes? :ok:

- Ed ;)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...BE_Airport.jpg

My Sister and I Loved It
 

My father took us to Hawaii and/or Montana in the 50s.

Toronto - Calgary on a North Star was cacophonus. A very small taste of what Bomber Command crews went through.

The Viscount was a delight:ok:

Besides the wonderful windows, I believe that it was the most comfortable airliner I have been on. Lots of room, but remember that ten year olds find more elbow room than adults.

Some decades later I spent several hours in a Viscount simulator. It was a very honest aircraft, but the instructor did his best to "kill" pilots with multiple failures:}

Spent many hours on the Viscount simulator at SAA in early 70s after being introduced to the aircraft whilst at British Eagle in the late 60s.

Many flights on SAA, Air Rhodesia and later on BMI

Last flight was on a Virgin aircraft from Maastricht in late 80s

As everyone is highlighting, the view and comfort was delightful

I had a most wonderful time being Duty officer pax & Ops and Traffic Coordinator for BMA at LHR 1977-1985

(my first experiences of Viscounts was as a boy going to SEN on a Friday night with mum and dad to have gammon steak egg and chips in the airport restaurant and watch all the Channel Airways Viscounts in the 1960's loading up for PMI JER GRO RTM OST and more.


At BMA we had a large fleet of Viscount 814's and one 836
(that being G-BFZL one of two Viscounts that TAA ordered, but didn't take delivery of, were specified with the optional lounge aft of the rear door, which had accommodation for 4 passengers, instead of the baggage hold and complete with a small window on either side, and an extra window forward, we removed the lounge)

All of our VC8's carried 73Y pax and the seating was pretty comfy, fabulous views and we could serve hot breakfasts (or hot dinners on the night charters)
As for engine noise - it could be irritating if the prop sync was out.
Depends where you sat but it could be quieter down the back.

crew was 2 pilots and 2 cabin crew
a jump seat was available in the flight deck - always handy if we had BMA or BA staff on standby tickets commuting home up North after their duties.

Technically during my time the fleet behaved well - the aircraft that were more often tech with snags than the others were the ex Nora/LH fleet of 4.
there was never anything that was ever a regular tech issue - the engines rarely caused issues

BMA Viscount fleet in my time were:
G AZNA/NB/NC
G AZLP/LR/LS/LT (LT was rebuilt and re-reg'd G-BMAT after a nasty prang at LBA using the wings of BAPD)
these 7 were ex SAA

G AYOX
G BFZL the 836 series was youngest viscount flying for us and was built for TAA NTU
G BAPF/PG (we also had PD and PE) all ex Nora AS/LH

Re: the 7 South African Airways viscounts: Mike Bishop was in Israel 1972 when he noticed in Flight Magazine the advert for the viscounts. He then went down to S.Africa and was told the fleet was to be sold as a whole and not separately. He only had Board approval to buy 1 or 2 viscounts and not 7! Unabashed he decided to offer the same cash amount he had board approval, but for all 7. As we now know, the offer was accepted and the rest is history. He also got the spares and the Sim.
Those 7 a/c set up BMA for the big time

Re the 4 ex german viscounts. These were never as reliable or corrosion free as the SAA ones and they appear to have been less successful overall.
PD and PE were spares donors.
They all def went Tech more often!


our prime LHR Viscount routes then were to LPL MME LBA BHX EMA and the IOM
we did also go LHR to NQY and Strasbourg too but we gave those routes up just before I joined

From EMA and BHX the viscount flew to CDG DUB AMS FRA GLA and BRU plus JER and GCI (at weekends JER and GCI was super saturated!)
The (ex BCAL) LGW-BFS route was operated by both Viscount (and DC-9) but once we got the LHR-BFS licence in 1984 the LGW route was dropped.

the viscount even up to 1981 did regular IT summer holiday charters
LPL-PMI and BHX-MAH on night flights.
a 5 hour trundle through the night but great for staff travel - nip up on the last LHR-LPL of the day, stay onboard and pop down to Majorca for beers.

At LHR one could often see 4, 5 or even 6** Viscounts on the Terminal 1 alpha/bravo domestic pier especially on a summer Saturday or Sunday evening.
**As all the DC-9's and the other Viscounts were away at weekends off flying in and out of JER and GCI from the outstations.
One Friday evening 4 Viscounts went tech and all AOG at LHR, we lots of fun that night

we also did night weekend charters from LPL and MME to PMI & ALC or PSA & RMI but on the DC-9's.

in 1982 BMA were awarded the LHR to GLA and 1983 the EDI routes followed in 1984 by the BFS thus thrusting us head to head with BA to compete with their super shuttles.
The Viscount AFAICR did not ever get used on these routes (a 707 did sometimes get put on the GLA when either BA or BR went on strike)
edit -
my grey cells recalls maybe a Viscount subbed for a DC-9 LHR to EDI or GLA once - pax were not happy as we could not get the hot catering trolleys onboard - i think we put the hot meal containers in the loos.

We leased Viscounts to Cyprus AW

photos C of a pal and taken on G-BMAT LBA-LHR iirc

I was lucky to fly on the Viscount maybe a 100 times or more

Clearly the passengers and ground staff were fond of the Viscount. Lovely stories and pictures. It would be good to hear some pilot and cabin crew stories as well.

Those windows were rather splendid. As I recall the F27 and Herald also had oval windows though not as big. Must have been a Dart thing !

First ever flight, Cambrian V.700 G-AMOO. Liverpool to Isle of Man. 4 engines for 85 nm. A few thereafter over the years, finally a surprise BMA V.800 one LHR-Teesside, a substitute for a DC9.

I, too, have wondered whether these windows were actually the same stock item from the same glazing manufacturer.

hi there

the VC8 on the LHR-MME run was a regular actually as on a Friday night and all flights at weekends especially in the summer because the DC-9's all upped sticks to the do the Jersey ''bombing runs'' from the outstations such as to/from:
LTN GLA SEN CVT LPL MME EMA BHX - many on W patterns

also at a low point we only had one DC-9 in the fleet and if she was tech or on mx in AMS then a VC8 would do the Teesside all the time if we could not get a sub charter in such as Martinair or Finnair

A BMA Viscount as you may know holds the record for the fastest flight time to London from Teesside
Xmas day? - cannot recall the actual flying time - someone here will know...

edit :
found it on PPrune!
A Viscount does hold the LHR - MME record. Capt Joe Sharps, one Boxing day, howling southerly gale, 09L (10L?) departure to a 05 (06?) arrival, direct track. I may be wrong but I think the time was 24 mins airborne. No doubt one of my (ex) colleagues will correct me. There were numerous attempts to beat the time but it was never bettered. BMA, sadly missed.

ps:
a BMA DC-9 did it in 28 mins airborne time - 27R to 05
37 mins chocks to chocks

Fastest airbourne I remember ever is 14 mins BHX-LHR including a full hot English breakfast for the entire cabin!
once round the hold for the hosties to try and clear up and less than 20 mins on a LPL-LHR again with full hot breakfast

the BEST ever hot breakfast we had at BMA was on the first early flight down BD331 from MME to LHR
back then the catering was supplied by the hotel St George at the Middleton St George airport...
big sausage, mushrooms, smoked bacon and KIDNEYS
yum it was delicious by the time it soaked up all the juices on arrival at LHR

It was actually a midweek midday sub for a DC9 schedule. I had done a TWA 747 LAX-LHR, and connected to a departure at about 1430 on to Teesside.

Wouldn't expect to use 05 instead of 23 in a howling southerly gale.

do you recall that year>? that would be BD336 at 1425 - the quietest flight of the day


Re the fastest Viscount flight from LHR to MME
taking off on 09L to arrive runway 05
accepted the crosswind and could be that the winds at MME were not so strong on the straight in landing?
I was on duty I think but I don't recall the year (late 70's or early 80's) otherwise we could look at the actual Metars & TAF's

About Easter 1978.

Just to balance the thoughts a little, on a previous similar thread a former Ansett Viscount captain was scathing about the cockpit layout on the aircraft. Personally I have clear memories of spotting wildlife from the previously mentioned windows en route from Blantyre to Salisbury in Air Malawi's Viscount 7Q-YDK in 1974. Happy days.

I've heard the cockpit layout on the 800 series was an improvement over the 700s. Slight thread drift but did the two variants share the same type rating ?

There's some good Youtube videos of G-APEY in the Southend circuit. She sounds magnificent.

AH!

well we had then G-BFIH named Dovedale (may still have just had its N65358 regn?)
and the N48075

plus another on lease from Finnair OH-LYB named Darley Dale then Ulster then Merseyside - which was on the LGW-BFS then the LPL-LHR

not sure why you got a Viscount that day - tech I spose !

none of the Viscounts were named

Viscount Nacelles
 

Hello and Happy Saturday One and All!

I have always been curious about the extreme length of Viscount's nacelles, which housed Rolls-Royce Dart turboprop donks. Was this design element simply a function of weight and balance (CG) considerations, or were their other reasons in play?

Thanks in advance for your expertise...

- Ed :)

Almost certainly CG factors, cavuman. I think turboprop engines were generally considerably lighter than the piston equivalents. Google 'Dart engined DC3' to see how far forward the engines are mounted on that type to prevent aft CG.

After I left the RAF I had worked for Airwork East Africa at Thornhill AFB in Zimbabwe for 10 months as a civvy on the Hawk T60's.
When I resigned from that job I flew from Thornhill up to Harare in a Viscount of Air Zim - nice flight :)

When I arrived in Zim originally I had flown down to Thornhill from Harare in a Zim Air Force CASA 212 with a flight looey pilot and an Officer Cadet as Co.

I flew back into LGW in a Air Zim 707,being impressed how green southern england was :) - I did miss the outstanding Gliding conditions though :hmm:

Long Nacelles, Part Deux
 

Thank you so much for your answer and direction to the turboprop-powered DC-3, Monsieur Discorde! Proof positive of your CG argument. Though the development of the Viscount in the late 1940's did, in fact, briefly feature reciprocating piston engines, that variant was never built. Viscount was a turboprop - and even turbojet - engined beast from its inception.

One thinks that the extra-long nacelles and associated structural members might impose a significant torque penalty on the main spar mounts, especially during flight through turbulence and high power settings. One wonders why Vickers' aerodynamicists did not simply move the wing a foot or two forward to alleviate this potential problem by shortening nacelle length. I ponder the Lockheed L-188 Electra's whirl mode failures, from which the venerable Viscount never suffered.

Perhaps it was all a case of "Nacelle Envy"? :}

- Ed ;)

The same C of G issues apply when installing turbines on Otters and Beavers.

Cavuman, shouldn't the wing be placed more aft, when wishing for shorter nacelles, i.l.o. forward?

never seemed at BMA to have any CofG or trim issues on the viscount 800's we had

it was always bang down the middle IIRC !

it was very difficult to out trim one -

the rear baggage hold was in the aft cabin so you had to be mindful of rear trim

The RAAF had two Viscounts for No 34 (Special Transport) Squadron based at Canberra and used primarily as VIP transports in the mid-1960's. I flew about 600 hours on them some of which was as QFI. Although heavy on the controls they were easy to land with a "soft" undercarriage which meant an average pilot could consistently make greaser landings. However, the cockpit layout was a nightmare of levers and switches all over the place and the view from the cockpit was limited because of the window design. A beautiful looking aircraft though.

The regulars here doubtless know of it, but for anyone interested in Viscounts, down to the detailed history of each airframe, and all sorts of sidebar stories, an afternoon can be spent here

About the Vickers Viscount Network

IIRC One significant change from the 700 to 800 srs was the position of the two hydraulic pumps.
On the 700 they were on the outboard engines and on the 800 they were on the inboards.
This caused a few incidents when taxiing on two engines after landing if the wrong ones were shut down and there was no power to the steering.

Now you've got me thinking, washoutt. (That doesn't happen too often!) It seems to me that shortening the moment arm between prop/engine and wing attach points would move the centers of gravity and balance rearward, therefore the wing would also need to be moved rearward to maintain balance. You are correct, Sir! I owe you a Heineken!

- Ed

What a super thread!

I grew up with the BMA Viscounts, from aged 6, seeing them with feathered props in the circuit at Castle Don.,passing overhead our family home, taking my first ever flight on one to Jersey in 1968, climbing all over ones on check in the hangar, later boarding passengers on them during a ramp summer job for BMA, then landing for the first time ever at LHR, in autumn dusk, seated on the jump seat of 'LT.

Just when I thought I'd left them behind in going away to Leeds University, they started operating into LBA in 1980, passing over my student house close to the 32 OM. My housemates used to mock me for breaking off from a meal to pay respect to The Company Flag as they whined over.

The point of this slightly self-indulgent reflection is that I'd presumed that they would be around forever. They are gone, with no flyable example preserved. Perhaps a warning to us. Aircraft can play a large background role in our lives. One day we might feel the same way about the Dash 7-Q400.

The way the engines bounced on the nacelles was vaguely amusing, but probably disconcerting to nervous flyers. Common with other mature R-R Darts, milky-coffee-coloured fluid used to stream from the engine casings. Put a half-empty plastic cup on a tray table in the forward seats, and it would "walk" around the table due to vibration.

Those windows:- The late Kim Lerner, Teesside-based BMA cabin crew, said that she felt she might fall out the large windows when serving the window seat on a row of three. She poured coffee whilst looking 4 miles almost straight down at passing greenery.

The sound:- there was a unique airframe resonance harmonic when the first engine started, almost like a groan of pleasure. As a young BMA ticket agent at Teesside, I used to make sure all my post-dispatch tasks were done before going onto the ramp to hear the Sunday BD341 or Jersey start up.

I hear that there is one somewhere in Africa that might just be recoverable if the right wealthy enthusiast was so inclined. Any takers? :-)

I had many flights on them between the UK mainland and Jersey, while working in Jersey in the 1970s. A beautiful aircraft to fly on with those large windows, hence my Pprune monicker. Such a contrast to the rather tired looking BIA Heralds which had to suffice when schedules dictated!

My supernumerary flight as BEA cabin crew was on a Viscount to Jersey. The start of 40 years which took me on to Trident, then BOAC 707, VC10, Tristar, DC10, 747, 767/757, 777.

I remember well a flight from Aberdeen to LHR on a Viscount where flight and cabin crew had bought wooden cases of kippers which were stowed on the flight deck. The smell is with me today!

Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the nacelle length wasn't also influenced by the total length of the engine plus exhaust. Being one of the first turboprop airliners, the designers may have wanted to keep all the hot bits in front of a firewall.

For Dart positioning compared to the w/b required for a piston engine, best comparison is the old Convair 440, which were actually converted to Dart power as the Convair 600.

The plane of the props, and the extent to which the engine projects in front of the wing, seem to be much the same.

440 :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...RnsRSKyJzGg20M:


600 :


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...=1518987705642

I just bumped a thread I posted some time ago containing a link to historic film footage of Viscount operations in New Zealand.




BTW....I undertook one Viscount flight in 1967 (at the age of 13) when I flew with New Zealand National Airways Corporation (NAC) from Napier to Christchurch. It involved two sectors: Napier to Wellington in a Fokker F-27 Friendship; and Wellington to Christchurch in a Vickers 800-series Viscount.


I can still remember how smooth and vibration free the Viscount was, and also those HUGE oval windows.

Why did the Viscount have an elliptical tailfin ? I can only think of the Dove and Heron that also have them. The Electra is close.

I believe only the very early 701's (BEA) and 708's (Air France) had the pumps in the outer engines. The majority of the 700's had them as per the 800/810's.
Regards

Any time of the day, sir, any time

I remember the BMA aircraft at Leeds starting the two inboard engines on stand, taxiing away and starting the two outboards before reaching the runway. This would suggest the hydraulic pumps are linked to the inboard engines.

Another YouTube video features an A.W. Argosy flying over Brisbane. Obviously the noise is very Viscounty on account of the four Darts.

The Viscount was not just a short haul aircraft. By 1960 various operators were running them from London down to points all around Africa, and Iraqi Airways ran them on London to Baghdad, and straight onward down The Gulf to Delhi. Leave London at 1930 on Monday, and with 6 stops along the way, get to Delhi at 0330 on Wednesday.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...a61/ia61-2.jpg

indeed - and BUA ran them all the way down to west africa - with a few stops
and Hunting LON down to East Africa

i think BEA's furthest was GIB Tangiers Malta and Sardinia with Athens and Nicosia in the east
but the aircraft went on from ATH and NCO as far as TLV IST Beirut BAH DOH KWI and Damascus operating under a different flight number with Olympic AW or Cyprus AW

comets in 1961 replaced the VC8 on these routes

LHR to CPH and SVO was a BEA route too for the Viscount

ZFT, the Viscounts operated on the MST-LGW route for Virgin were wet leased from British Air Ferries (BAF) and Euroair.

BAF was a major operator of the Viscounts in the 1980's thru to around 1998 using them in both passenger and freighter roles. They had at least one that had a proper freight door that was marketed as the Freightmaster. For quite a few years in 90's they used them on ParcelForce contracts with 2 based in EDI and 2 based in BFS flying down to CVT each weekday evening and then returning.

I think the Tinnitus I have now is probably down to being too close to too many RR Darts on Viscounts, F27, HS748 and Gulfstream 1 over the years. On the outside the noise was of a pitch that could be quite unpleasant at times, but inside it wasn't too bad on the Viscount.

My first Viscount flight was on a British Eagle VC7, G-ATDR, returning to LHR from LPL. It was filling in for a tech BAC 1-11.

Subsequently I had quite a few flights in Viscounts and always enjoyed the experience