According to "Air Britain's Airlines of the British Isles since 1919" Alidair was formed as a subsidiary of the Alida Packaging Group on 1st January 1972. If this were the case then ownership must have moved on by the time of the Flight article in 1973. The Alida Packaging Group did have a Beagle Pup based at Hucknall which would make appearances at East Midlands, so there was possibly a link somewhere.

I don't believe Alidair had anything to do with Kestrel, who ceased trading on 1st November 1972 and whose sole Viscount (G-AVJB) was returned to BMA.
Thanks for the replies, helps me with a large project which I have been working on for a couple of years.

I remember Dan Air using 'DA89LL' for a regular Friday HS748 positioning from LBA to NCL in the early 1980s. By this time, Dan Air was already using alpha-numeric callsigns for its scheduled flights; 'DAB6ER' was the weekday evenings LBA to GLA flight.

I did a jumpseat ride on a Monarch 1-11 to Milan Malpensa, we diverted to Linarte due to snow. Eventually Linarte shut and we were communicating with Monarch Ops via Berna Radio phone patch on HF. I remember it was clear as if we were on the ground at Luton!

No need for it now in Europe as they just use mobile phones.

Been a while since my last question so here's another:- "Scandinavian" being a 5 syllable mouthful, am I correct in thinking it was common practice to trim it to the 2-syllable "Scandi"? Especially on busy frequencies like Heathrow Director/Tower etc. Thanks in advance to any confirmation or otherwise.

Don't know for certain but I believe 'Scandinavian' may still be used. Has been for many years. It seems to roll off the tongue quite easily compared to some other callsigns.with equal or less number of syllables.

Back in the '80s when BA helicopters was taken over by that sleazeball Maxwell the treasured Speedbird callsign went and was replaced by the risible and un-phonetic "Lion".

On arrival at the rig on the first day a Puma crew made contact with inbound load etc using the embarassing new callsign only to be asked if the pussy wanted some milk on arrival!

Another cumbersome un-phonetic callsign was Green Isle for Virgin Express (Ireland).

Heard a story once of a fast U.S. military aircraft transiting Scottish airspace with the callsign FAST EAGLE.
The crew got very vocal when ATC called them TESTICLE.
No sensayuma.

H

Anyone help with this one. British Island Airways callsign 1971-1979. I remember "Brit Island" being used in the 80's - am I right in thinking they used "UK" (i.e. "you kay") prior to that? Also any info when they switched from registrations to flight numbers. Thanks in advance for any replies.

Bit of a thread drift Having had a reread of this thread due to a canceled conference call I can remember both call signs and registration call signs in use at LHR , Kcockayne kindly corrected my assumption about why they were sued with the advice that as traffic grew flights began to operate daily and ATC introduced flight strips as the same flight operated same time every day and hanging on to registrations wasnt practical or sensible any more but no doubt it wasnt accomplished overnight as in the early to mid 60s there were still lots of routes especial;;y long haul that only operated once or twice a week , Iraqi Viscounts Aerolineas Argentinas Comets or Panair Brasil DC8s stick in my mind .

I think ATC was less proceduralist and LHR although very very busy was nothing like today back and SK was usually Skandi and LH often Lufty along with a bit of banter with crews who were well used to LHR and spoke good English which was not the norm back then with even AF IB TP and the like having crews whose English was very limited along with the Eastern Europeans and occasionally even the then unusual 'Southern 'US voices from Braniff and National. My wife worked for Speedbird London some years later and even then Braniff were one of the hardest to understand. And as for the comments about FAA aircraft in Europe I remember seeing an FAA Convair but no ATC and one time, the holy grail for spotters at LHR , N1 the FAAs Lockheed Jetstar. Maybe better in nostalgia I know but was an interesting thread

IIRC, 'UK' was used after the merger with Air Anglia to form Air UK.

In Canada, I was once on board a RCAF reserve single Otter - above the Capt's head was a plaque with a five-letter callsign in the VCxxx series. I suppose they haven't been used since the morse code era.

Red Arrows Callsign
 

I always thought that the Red Arrows used 'Red' followed by their team number, or 'leader'. But at the Toronto Airshow last September, they were called 'ASCOT' according to flightaware.com.

Can anybody enlighten me?

cheers,
id

In the UK the red arrows use the callsign "red arrows" when contacting atc units.

Ascot is used by some but not all RAF transport aircraft usually with a numeric or alpha numeric airline style callsigns.

Ascot is used by All RAF transport aircraft when route flying. RR1000 series, Bae146. RR2000 series KC-30, RR4000 series being the A400M, RR5000 series C-130 and RR6000 series C-17. KC30s use Madras and Tartan call signs when tanking in the UK. 400 sometimes use Comet call signs when undertaking tactical flying with C-130s using Jigsaw.

RAF fast jets often use the Ascot call sign when in transit overseas when accompanied by KC-30. The ASCOT call sign dates back to the days of RAF Air Support Command, standing for Air Support Command Operation Task.

I do not know exactly when BIA started using flight numbers as the a/c callsign, but; I was doing my APP Radar training in 1974 at Bournemouth, & I am sure that they used flight numbers then.

RRR1xxx callsigns are also used by 32 Sqn's Agusta. RRR7xxx is used by the Sentinels, Shadows and RC-135s.

I assume that by "KC-30" you mean the Voyagers, which also use RRR9xxx (possibly dependent on the mission).

As a flight despatcher at Luton in the 1980's, most of the overseas operators had crews that spoke good English. That was until Balkan Bulgarian operated a weekly TU-154 flight in 1984. I was slightly puzzled dealing with their first flight that the crew complement on the flight deck was FIVE. Two pilots and a flight engineer, yes, but who were the other two? Sky marshals? KGB agents? It became apparent during the turnround that one must have been a navigator of some sort, studying Jeppesen (or the Russian equivalent of) aerodrome/departure charts etc. It gradually dawned on me, after any attempt at communication with the pilots was rebuffed with a grunt and a thumb jabbed in the direction of the 5th guy, that he was the translator. All dialogue was done through him. Whether he handled all communication with ATC as well I will never know. If he did, the short delay translating instructions to the pilots probably wasn't normally a big issue. Until they needed a surveillance radar approach (SRA) to half a mile, that is. Which is what happened one day (Luton had no ILS on RW 08 at that time). Waiting for the aircraft to land, I watched it break cloud at least 200 yards left of track in the course of executing a go-around. Good job the new tower was still 10 years away from being built....

Thanks for the info, that makes sense.

Yeah, but who were the Geezers who invented the call signs and forced us to use them ? My pilot training was sponsored by BKS Air Transport , during the course, they re-branded and painted the aircraft yellow. Of course I was very proud to call myself "Northeast _ _ _ " whenever operating. But some joker decided to call us "Norjet". Felt very silly bombing around in a Viscount calling myself Norjet. Felt much more worthy after converting to T1e and blasting off to NCL from LHR at M0.86. After the rotten merger, another jobsworth decided to call us, now in BARD, "Albion". Worse, he justified this with a page long memo asking us to be proud of the history of the term "Albion". Nothing to do with my home team, Brighton & Hove Albion but a bunch of white (you could say that, then, ) Warriors who conquered , heaven knows what or when and then sought further credibility by justifying the fact that "Albion" complied with regulation requiring three syllables.

A brief and hateful (mutual ) period with Air 2 Bob had me cringing every time I announce I was "Jetset". Ghastly !

After a Glorious term with Transavia, I joined up with a new start that got quickly airborne by buying out some Light A/C Belgian cargo outfit and used their AOC with associated call-sign, " Moonrun " ! Lovely 757 outa Frankfurt for Palma & I suffered the indignity of calling myself " Moonrun _ _ _ " !

Thanks be to Allah that Gulfair called themselves, er, "Gulfair" . Much more settled and stayed with it for 17 years.

My question remains though, who were those Geezers ? Prizes for genuine names .

I'm sure I've read before on a similar thread that the Albion callsign was the brainchild of a Northeast/BA Regional Division Leeds Bradford Base Captain. I can't recall a name though. Agree, Norjet was naff for a Viscount but I guess the American Northeast had already bagsied the obvious callsign.

Just had GM on the phone who suggests naming and shaming the "Geezers" might lead to admonishment from the Mods, at least. But, the Memo was from the CP at LHR. It might not prove it was him but that was the implication. Funny little Northerner who then went up after the merger, then sideways then back down. You are right about the US Notheast though. GM believes that the UK version got away with the same colours and name after, he thinks the US operator went bust but that the callsign was too expensive to buy. Historians will put us all right on that one, I'm sure.

Should have kept Bealine going, stuck 'The' at the beginning to benefit the nincompoops and bingo ! A three-syllable callsign that isn't Albion.

IIRC Northeast was used on LBA and NCL operations until the four components of regional division (Cambrian, Channel, Northeast and Scottish) were rolled into one in 1976. At that point flight numbers became BE/Bealine (eg LHR>LBA midday-ish was BE4405). Possible one or two were BA/Speedbird.

I assume that ATC then had callsign indigestion with too many Bealines with similar flight numbers and by summer 76 they reverted to NS/Northeast at Leeds. BZ/Albion came along in 1977, presumably because NE/Northeast was an anachronism.

Can anybody expand/enlarge/correct?

I've done a little research (i.e. looked on Wikipedia) and it seems the American Northeast was subsumed into Delta Airlines by 1972. Theoretically, the way should then have been clear for BA Regional Division to use the Northeast callsign once Bealine had proved unsatisfactory in the mid-1970s.

As for Jetset, it was arsey with delusions of grandeur but less of a mouthful than Air 2000.

MNG Airlines-"Black Sea"
Many moons ago on a night shift in the LTMA, it departs from Luton and calls my colleague( DKG,yes you ) on the R/T. For all the world it sounded like he was saying "bollox ee". Cue controller incapictation due to laughing.

Not sure where I've read this, but I believe Northeast USA at some point used "Yellowbird", although Wikipedia shows "Northeast ".

Here's another question. I remember BUA using registrations for callsigns in the late 60's, used to hear their 1-11's on domestic schedules routing DET-BPK-DTY as (e.g.) "British United Juliet Fox". Caledonian, however, I always remember used flight numbers. So does anyone know what happened during the Caledonian//BUA interim period around 1971?

Fellas, I am sure you will have seen the other thread entitled "British United Airways-What was their callsign?" . Some really interesting nostalgea there too.

Thanks for the replies. The British United thread looks especially useful !

Another question; this time British Airways. Officially came into existence on 1st April 1974, although Cambrian and Northeast were not integrated for another two years. Looking at some old timetables, the original "BE" and "BZ" prefixes were still in use for the former B.E.A. and Regional Division flights respectively until at least summer 1978. Just wondering if anyone can shed any light on how long it was before "Speedbird" was adopted as the callsign for all BA flights - did this change at the same time as the published timetables changed? Many thanks in advance for any replies.

Earlier thread on the topic here: PPRuNe: ex BEA and "Speedbird" callsigns

From Sunday 29th October 1978, all BA flights used the call-sign 'Speedbird'. B-line, Albion and Shuttle all dropped by then.

That's fantastic, thanks for the heads up, had no idea this topic had its own thread.

Thanks for another heads up, that would tie in with the timetables, then, with the summer 1978 timetable still using "BE" and "BZ" prefixes.

Anyone shed any light on the callsign "Lima"? Used by a 1-11 back on 21st Jan 1969 on a test/training/delivery flight Stansted-Gatwick-Luton ("Lima 34"). Any possibility it was used by BAC, like HS used "Tibbit"? As always many thanks for any replies.