A.S.T. Perth (Scone) 1966
 

Half a century ago, Airwork Services Training was second only to Hamble in the U.K. as a flying school approved by HMG for training civil pilot-cadets for CPL & IR. We were a minority on the campus, because the school also trained aero-engineering students. Elstree was already providing minor competition for commercial pilot training, IIRC, but Oxford and Carlisle didn't start until later.

The school principal was W/Cmdr (ret'd) "Pooch" Nugent and the CFI was Bob Critchley. The course from ab-initio to CPL and IR cost something over £4000 (yes, four thousand pounds). That included board and lodging, ground school, and about 150 hours on singles (Cessna 150s and DHC-1s) and 30 hours on twins (Cessna 310s). A typical course lasted about 15 months, subject to the vagaries of the weather in the closing stages.

Most (but not all) flying students were airline-sponsored. At the beginning of 1966, cadets represented airlines including BUA (British United, the parent company of which owned the school), Aer Lingus, Cambrian Airways, Malaysia-Singapore Airlines, Nepalese Army Air Service, and Sudan Airways. Courses started at two-monthly intervals, and each generally consisted of a mixture of nationalities/airlines. Later that year, however, we were joined by a course of BOAC/BEA cadets, due to Hamble being oversubscribed.

The airfield runways at Perth were all grass in those days. That made for interesting night-flying in the spring and autumn, when the combination of rain and the high number of movements led to very muddy conditions. (Night-flying training is impracticable in the summer in Scotland.)

Any other PPRuNers that remember Scone around 1966?

Okay perhaps not 1966 but seven years later, Pooch and Critchley were still there. The school was busy and there were now two sealed runways and one grass, about 20 C150s, 5 C310s and a couple of link trainers.
The pilot students came from MEA, Tao Domestic ( Now JAS ?), a few Nepalese Army and Air Malawi students, a couple of ICAO sponsored students, one from Dan Air and about six private students of which one was myself. I think the course fees had risen to about 7,000 pounds.
I went back to do my ATPL subjects a couple of years later and not much had changed, but when I went back to show my son about fourteen years ago, the place was now a lot quieter with only private flying and some engineering students.
We all used to have the odd complaint and were happy to leave to start our careers, however when I look back I believe the school was very well run.

Pooch was already there in 1952 when I joined Glasgow UAS. Apart from the Chipmunks, the hangar had Oxfords, Army Austers - and a Cierva autogiro.

Pooch was a hunting and shooting man and proudly contributed some geese to the restaurant one day. Unfortunately they had been hung overlong and he was deeply disappointed by customer lack of appreciation. :yuk:

AST Scone 1966
 

I was an applicant for a trainee position in 1966. I was not successful but took up flying again 20years later. I was not sure I could have afforded to take up a place if I had been offered a place, as I just left University.

Chris: I operated into Scone several times whilst in the Edin UAS 67 - 69
including the "Scone Trophy". Have a vivid memory of Old Nuggent
trying his best to "charm" my then girlfriend at the after social.
Later I was checked out by Gordon Lockart on the schools chippies.

Were you there at the time of the mid-air?

Scotbill: was that autogyro in fact the Kay Gyroplane G-ACVA? I saw it at Scone in 1962.

Laurence

We had a pretty good system at Oxford of chart kits for students and I suggested we try to get Hamble and Perth on the same scheme. Good idea said the boss, let's go. I did the honours by mail and off we traipsed via Heathrow and Glasgow, train and cab to Scone. That was in 1971. The registrar hardly looked up at us but reckoned they were alright thanks...you may leave.

I told him in no uncertain terms in my best Hampshire what I thought of our coming all this way, with an appointment, to be treated so miserably, so he sighed and got on the phone, and Jimmy Hamilton picked us up and showed us the place, nice as pie, and most apologetic. Needless to say they WERE alright, Hamble too, but it was a nice trip.

Ten years later at the Flight Business Show at Cranfield, over the road one evening, I bumped into a fairly short chap in the bog - it was Jimmy, and he was so pleased to have been remembered. I'm glad it wasn't the registrar!

cheers

I did my PPL/Flying Scholarship at Scone in 1958 which was pretty much the start of my long flying career. I was given the choice of training on the Chipmunk or the Tiger Moth and opted for the latter. I first flew with Pooch on 17 July 1958 and he was, I think, known as the Commandant. In fact, he did my PPL test and I told the fearsome story on a previous thread "DH82a".

My main instructors were Tommy Blyth (CFI of the Scottish Aero Club) and Cyril Sweetman (ex-RAF Canberras?). Poor old Tommy, having survived the Halifax and WWII, got killed in a Chipmunk crash with an ATC cadet a couple of years later.

Bob Critchley gave me a couple of lessons and I also flew with Andy Anderson and Bill Lancaster. Some Kuwait Airways students were going through the AST course at the time and I was living next door to a chap called Safir. I believe he went on to be their Chief Pilot.

David Kay, who designed and built the Kay Gyroplane (G-ACVA) would appear in the bar on a Saturday night from time to time. His aeroplane was in the hangar and kept in good condition. It was apparently quite flyable although I never personally saw it airborne.

I' m sure you're right. Laurence.

The memory plays tricks as senility beckons- but I seem to recall an array of very good cartoon portraits of the staff done, I believe by one of the instructors.

Does anyone knoow what happened to them?

I did my PPL with the Scottish Aero Club at Easter 1965 paid for by the RAF under the guise of a Special Flying Award. My C150 instructors were Peddell and Lockhart. My PPL flight test was done by Nugent and my log book was signed off by Donald Pow. All done in the school Easter holidays.

Great memories of drinking and dancing in Perth in the evenings.
Happy days - half a century ago. Only sim now!

mcdhu

Odd to see all these names from AST at Scone - I did my PPL there about 1960 - I did the last flight with Tom Blyth the day he and my fellow cadet were killed - it was a shock to the other 3 of us to say the least. A couple of years later I commenced my engineers licence course - enjoyed every minute of it. I am now retired and live about 30 miles away,sometimes pay a visit,have a coffee and feel nostalgic. Engineering school is now part of Perth College,do not think there is anything but flying club there now - such a shame.

I know it's a bit later than the dates in the OP...
 

....but does anyone remember Archie Kinch who went there probably early/mid '70s?
He was the Sunderland pilot who landed on the Yangtze in the incident of the film.

The Ancient Mariner

I did my PPL at AST scone courtesy of Philip Sassoon and Aunty Bettys flying club :) in May/June 1972 - most of my dual was with Peter Foote and PPL test with Gordon Lockhart.Lovely place to fly from - and fairly local as I was a Fife Lad.
Here is a lovely little vid - an AST advert from the past...and I still have that lovely badge on my blazer :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEpTA-uncdk

Memories of flying at Scone, before 1966!
 

Good to read some memories and names from Scone. Thanks for raising the subject Chris.
Although not a commercial student at AST, I had the good fortune to do my ATC Flying Scholarship at Strathtay Aero Club, as it was in these days, during summer 1953, with instructors 'Flag' Johnson and Dave Kay on Tiger Moths. Dave Kay, as CFI, signed off my PPL final test on G-AHUV in July 53. (I think G-AHUV is still active!)
I then flew from time to time with Strathtay/Scottish between 1954 and 1960 to keep my PPL current, being checked out when required by Tom Blyth and Andy Anderson on Tigers, civil Chipmunks and Messenger.
I have a very grainy photo of the Kay Gyroplane G-ACVA in the back of the hangar from that time.
My Scone experiences also included flying with Glasgow UAS on Chipmunks from Jan 55 to Dec 56, and practice forced landings at Errol.
I remember the names of Nugent and Critchley, and there was at least one Hamilton.
The Scone circuit with non radio Tigers, on radio Chipmunks, occasional Harvard and Oxfords and Ansons was a good learning process!
I must go back soon and look around.
Andrew McClymont

Thanks Longeron for the video link, it was something of a surprise to see myself in it.

DHC-1 Chipmunks and attrition
 

After making my OP, I soon realised I should have mentioned the UAS Chipmunks, but I didn't anticipate how many of you would have done flying scholarships, or similar, at Scone. The CPL/IR courses like mine represented most of the flying training by 1966. Course 32 started in January, which suggests that CPL/IR courses might have started in or before 1960 - unless the early course numbers were used for PPL students.

If memory serves, there were around half a dozen UAS Chippies in 1966. (Can someone remind me which university?) They looked smarter than the AST ones, and were fitted with anti-flat-spin strakes. Ours were not, and numbered only four at the beginning of the year, so most of us were allocated to the One-fifties, rarely if ever getting our hands on a Chippie - and then only for dual. The Chipmunk guys, who mainly had some previous flying experience, were regarded with a mixture of awe and envy, although some of us were secretly relieved that we didn't have to cope with a tail-dragger.

By the end of the year, we were down to two Chippies. One had stalled in a low turn over the home of a girl the solo student was trying to impress, passing between two trees before hitting the ground, The engine continued for some distance... The other, flying dual, had failed to go-around from a low approach during a practice forced-landing, hitting a stone wall. All three pilots survived with minor injuries at worst, but from then on the type was more or less inaccessible for the rest of us.

Meikleour,
When you were checked out by Lockart, was it an AST or UAS Chipmunk? No, the mid-air (between two Cessna 150s?) was a year or two after I left.

JW411,
Cyril Sweetman did my flight-familiarisation test on selection, and a progress check at about 20 hrs. I don't think Pooch did any instruction in 1966, and I never flew with the CFI.

scotbill,
I remember those great cartoons of instructors in the flying club. Are you saying they've been removed?

mcdhu,
Alec Peddell was my first flying instructor, and sent me solo on the C150. Couldn't have wished for better, and I was sorry when he left for Hamble soon after. (He was also a yachtsman, IIRC.) Don Pow, as deputy CFI, did my CPL dummy GFT (X/C and General).

bcgallacher,
That must indeed have been a shocking experience, and I trust you hadn't previously intended to pursue a pilot career? In the autumn of my own, I was checked out on a Chipmunk for the first time and sent solo. I was greatly impressed by the abilities of my instructor, a semi-retired, ex crop-spraying guy who told me over a beer that he sometimes earned easy money acting as a safety pilot for the well-heeled, but barely competent, owner of an aerobatic biplane. Two months later, I heard they'd spun out of the bottom of a cloud somewhere in Berkshire. May sound illogical, but it affects.

Chris, it was Glasgow UAS at that time.
Andrew

Presumably G-AOSA at Coupar Angus (4th December) and G-AOJZ (31st May), respectively, although the BoT report on the former suggests it was also a PFL that went wrong (it did end up in the intended field after hitting the trees :O).

Photo here of G-AOJZ, which was recovered and subsequently used as an instructional airframe, spuriously marked as "G-ASTD": https://www.flickr.com/photos/paul-thallon/8473987212

Chris - I actually intended to be a professional pilot but over the next 18 months my hearing deteriorated to below the required standard. I come from an aviation family so I did the engineering course at Scone - got the Lord Provost of Perths gold medal for top student. Did the next 45 years as a line engineer worldwide - worked in over 60 countries,last assignment was Tashkent in Uzbekistan. Basically worked as a technical mercenary and had a wonderful time,made a little money - I always say I got paid for having a hobby! Now have homes in the Philippines and Fife - off to Manila in Jan to swim with the whale sharks in Oslob and escape the worst of the winter.

I joined the staff at Scone in July, 1974 and Archie arrived soon after. We had met briefly in the RAF years before on a jet "refresher course" on Meteors . One of his claims to fame was having obtained a CFS A1 Cat, which he did on Sunderlands!

At AST Archie served as Single-engined Flight Manager, CFI and in 1987 was appointed Chief Instructor when Bob Critchley eventually retired, He lives not far from Perth and we still exchange Christmas cards.

Heck - CFS A1 on SUNDERLANDs - sounds awesome

I didn't know Pooch had been an instructor, however I knew he liked hunting etc., once some of the game ended up in our meals ...... with bits of fur still attached! :yuk:

Don Pow was the head C150 instructor and I was his only student. After teaching me some aerobatics in "his" aerobat, he said I was not to do any solo, but if I did he advised me to do them in a certain area so as not to get caught!

My instructor on the C310 was Hector Skinner, a very nice fellow and a great instructor ..... he must have been as he got me through my IR flying with the minimum of fuss!

Not so.

Commercial Training (courses)

Chris: no, it was after I had left the UAS at the end of 1969.

G-ARCR I remember it well because we both strapped in with me waiting for a suitable erk to come and prime us! Gordon, taking another drag from his habitual fag saying " you're not in the f****g RAF now! Get out and do it yourself!" A nice, needed introduction to the civil world!

Hector Skinner; now there is another name to conjure with. I didn't meet Hector until about 35 years after I had been to Perth. By then he was a CAFU Examiner for the CAA. He came into the simulator one night to renew my TRE/IRE rating. He was a very pleasant and straightforward chap and all went well.

A year or so later, I was waiting to go into the simulator to examine one of our crews. I noticed from the simulator tech log that the CAA were already in residence and Hector's name was on the crew list. The curious thing was that the drawbridge into the simulator was still down so, therefore, the motion had not been switched on. It was quite strange to hear all the noises but the machine was not moving a muscle.

Anyway, the crew door eventually opened and as Hector walked past me. I said Hello and made the comment that flying aeroplanes would be so much easier if they didn't move. I received a wry smile.

No doubt we shall eventually get on to the Dai H-H stories!

Glad to have triggered many interesting memories of Scone here - if not yet 1966! ;) Keep 'em coming...

Thanks Dave, I had forgotten that the Coupar Angus prang was as late as December. But most of us visited the accident scene. Just shows one can't take everything in accident reports entirely on face-value...

Quote from asmccuk:
"My Scone experiences also included flying with Glasgow UAS on Chipmunks from Jan 55 to Dec 56, and practice forced landings at Errol.
I remember the names of Nugent and Critchley, and there was at least one Hamilton.
The Scone circuit with non radio Tigers, on radio Chipmunks, occasional Harvard and Oxfords and Ansons was a good learning process!"

By 1966, minor changes only! The Errol area was fairly busy, with power lines nearby and Dundee (Riverside) not far off. No sign of Tigers, Harvards, Oxfords or Ansons. :sad: But the circuit may have been even busier than in your day. Our Hamilton was a senior C310 instructor called Bill, IIRC, though my logbook unexpectedly shows only his first initial as "C".

Longer ron, was that Peter Foote in 1972? We had a senior instructor called R Foote, who flew both types, but I don't remember his first name.

That was Ray Foote...........:ok:

longer ron thanks for the video clip, it brought back some memories and I even recognized one of my old ground instructors Mr Allen. Although a good instructor he was a bit of a prophet of doom, the first oil crisis was taking place and he was of the opinion that a flying career was doomed!
Here is another video from 1994:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nudfy4OXXds

There is an "AST Scotland old boys" page on Facebook. Not a lot of information from past students, but quite a bit of news/ advertising for AST.

I know they do some pilot training, however it seems to be a shadow of its former self. When and what happened to cause the decline of pilot training?

I went over to Errol one day with Tommy Blyth in Tiger Moth G-ANNG to learn how to do "runway landings" (Perth was all grass in 1958). Tommy briefed me that we would be doing touch-and-go landings and that he wanted me to keep the tail in the air to save wear on the tail skid. This I did but when I opened the throttle after the first landing, the runway disappeared sideways and Tommy had to take control rather rapidly. That was when I learned about swing on take-off! I never did it again - not even on the Piston Provost.

Gordon Lockhart was my instructor at Perth in 1965. I did my PPL courtesy of Her Majesty on Chipmunks, complete with electric starters. I remember my cross country to Aberdeen (or Dyce as it was then). I asked for help in finding the field from the coast and was told to "turn left at the sausage factory". That was Lawsons of Dyce of course, now long gone. Happy days.

AST Perth 1966
 

Hello Chris,

I was one of 21 cadets on Course 33 which began on 6th March 1966. Most were Aer Lingus trainees and a couple of years ago a course photograph came my way from an Aer Lingus source. When I have worked out how I can post it, I will use it as a base for a bit of reminiscing of those times. Tragedy, romance and intrigue...stay tuned to pPrune, folks!

Hector was our next door neighbour when I was a kid and he was working for CAFU. He would often knock on our door during the school holidays and ask if I'd like to fly on the CAFU HS125 the following week. It took less than a nanosecond to say "yes please!"......

A gentleman.

DH

ast Aug1966 -Nov67
 

A long time ago, but some things this old fart remembers.Singles instructor was Dave Blair ex RAF I think he flew Swifts and F86 spent some time in the Antartic
after leaving the Airforce On the C310 seems to remember Willie Hamilton also remember Perth was Closed many times to the 310 waterlogged
CSman Terry Morgan

Flying Instructors - 1966 (incomplete list)
 

More nice anecdotes! Thanks Terry, for reminding me that Capt Hamilton of the Cessna 310s was referred to as "Willie".

I can list many of the instructors because after my first - Alec Pedell - left for Hamble soon after sending me solo I found myself flying with many of the rest. So here's my list, in no particular order, with their call-signs (used only on singles, IIRC) in brackets.

C150 and/or DHC-1: Alec Pedell (93), Geoff(?) Chandler (85), Cyril Sweetman (90), Ernie Holmes (96), Hugh(?) Allen (82), D. Kirkpatrick (97), R. Elliott (93), Gordon Lockart (92), D. Kirkpatrick (?), Don Pow (88).

Singles & C310: Ray Foote (98).

C310: C. "Willie" Hamilton, J. Stone.

ciderman, Aberdeen airport (EGPD/ABZ) is still known aeronautically as Aberdeen-Dyce. Slightly more helicopter activity than in the 1960s!

JW411, Errol touchdowns were strictly verboten by our day, which was a pity. (May have been obstructed?) Must admit I could never find the ground on wide, paved runways - day or night. Like sinking into a bottomless pit... Guess you would agree it's much easier on taller aircraft.

Would that be the same Hugh Allen who I knew, though not very well, when he was CFI of the Lothians Flying Club at EDI in the early 70s? Nice chap.

Sadly, he was killed in in 1981 when his C172 flew into a hill in Fife.

Dave,
That seems probable. Only flew with H. Allen once (July '66), but seem to remember he was large and good-looking. I hesitate to say it in case of error, but IIRC he had been the instructor involved in the Chipmunk practice-forced-landing accident in the May. (The student [Doug X] completed CPL/IR training without further incident, and was later a close colleague of mine for many years.) Perhaps Manoir will remember.

Chris Scott

I would not argue with anybody about his first name Chris - it was a long time ago :)
The guy I flew with seemed fairly elderly (remembering I was only nineteen :) ),not too tall,maybe slightly pedantic and a little 'nervous' perhaps ? I am 500 miles from my old logbook at the moment but doubt I put his first name in anyway.

rgds LR

AST, Perth 1966/67
 

Chris, Dave,

The name Hugh Allen rings a bell and I have a vague memory of a tallish, thin guy - but that's all.

My instructor on singles was Wing Commander Dave Blair, soft-spoken and a real professional.

AST, 1966
 

AST 1966
There were 21 students on Course 33 when it began on 6th March 1966. Fifteen were Aer Lingus Cadets, five (including myself) sponsored by Cambrian and one, Mike King, a private student as far as CPL who had his I/R sponsored by Cambrian.

No previous course had this many students. This may have been the reason Pooch initiated the requirement that all students wear name-badges. This did not go down well with the Aer Lingus chaps who complied...but with their names in Irish!

The Aer Lingus cadets were on a different deal to the rest of us. Once they had passed their CPL they returned to Dublin to be type-rated on the Viscount and on which they completed their I/R.

Later in the year saw the arrival of the BEA/BOAC trainees on Course 37. They had a mixed reception - being perceived by some as being rather 'superior' (or words to that effect). That was not my experience - I struck up one or two passing friendships with Course 37 students.

As mentioned earlier, Dave Blair was my instructor on singles. I remember him as a soft-spoken quintessential Scottish country gentleman. On Cessna 3I0s I had Footy (Ray Foote?). I remember Lew Hurrell's pre-flight briefings though not actually flying with him. Jamie Hunter and Jack Robertson were two of the ground instructors whose names I recall (Jamie did Met and Jack taught us Nav Plot and Flight Planning, if I remember correctly).

It was, by its nature, intense but the weekends gave us time to catch our breath. At one point three of us from Course 33 were dating three sisters who lived locally.

Six months into the course, Aer Lingus chopped three of their Course 33 trainees. There was an industry downturn. What happened was that Aer Lingus appears to have leaned on AST and the students' progress reports were used as the excuse. Three others were warned that they might not be kept on unless their performances improved.

In the event two of the three were taken back on by Aer Lingus after their families took legal advice. One of these, Brian Murphy later developed motor neuron disease which permanently grounded him and his death followed not long afterwards. Brian and I kept in touch for a while after we left Perth. One day in June 1967, he phoned me to tell me about the crash of a Viscount (EI-AOF) near Ashbourne, County Meath. It was on an early morning training flight and all three on board, the instructor and two cadets were killed. One of the cadets was our fellow Course 33 student Rory Power (Ruarí de Paor). RIP.

Manoir (John McGurk).

April 1965
 

I did an ATC flying scholarship at Perth from 1 to 29th April 1965 so must have been there at the same time as MCDHU (post #10). There were six of us but one left after a couple of flights. Accommodation was tight so we were put up in the sick bay.


The only name I remember was Primrose. I do recall one guy was on a Special Flying Award and one was a Sea Cadet, the rest of were ATC or CCF. As we were in uniform the Sea Cadet said he felt a bit of a pratt climbing in and out of a C150 in his bell bottom blues !


The instructors were Peddell and Lockhart - Gordon Lockhart, know as "Gee". They were both excellent. Did my PPL test with Pooch Nugent. I recall he was a big chap and hardly left any room for me in the C150. I remember being taken into Bob Critchley's office at the end of the course and introduced to him in respectful tones. It was like meeting royalty.


Two guys got to do their training on Chipmunks. They were chosen on the basis of previous Chipmunk experience. I had probably more than either of them but couldn't prove it as I had not kept a log of air experience flights in my ATC ID booklet. Big mistake !


I enjoyed the whole experience immensely. Some good nights in pubs in Perth and also visiting QV School in Dunblane with one of the guys who was an FP. We also toured about the countryside in a mini-bus one of the guys borrowed from his mother in Blairgowrie. I went back to Perth the following year to keep my licence current and flew with Bob McAuliffe.


I didn't make my career in flying but I still fly PA28s at Fife airfield.
Chris Anderson