Guy Martin's Spitfire
 

What looks to be a good documentary on Channel 4 tonight at 7.30. No doubt it will appear on youtube in due course for those out of the UK.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-spitfire

F/LT. John Anderson (93) & SGT. Ray Johnson (94) both served with 152(Hyderabad) Squadron.[IMG]http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9bb6a6c6.jpg[/IMG]

I thought it was a very enjoyable programme, although I wouldn't have called the aircraft a re-build, rather more a replica made to original drawings. Fantastic final result, though, and a fine example of British craftsmanship.

Some mildly irritating TVLand frothiness, of course, but great to see the craftspeople working on the project and get an idea of how they were made. Great to see his daughters, so clearly moved at seeing the Spit looking so magnificent again.

I agree that it was a very interesting programme. Just a pity about the long-haired bloke who kept leaping around.

My thoughts were really it would/could have been a far better programme if the makers had just concentrated on the absolute brilliant skill of the engineers making and putting together the aircraft in question, the addition of some inane comments and totally gormless looks and smiles at the camera from the obvious new "Luvvie" really didn't add anything at all .

I feel Fred Dibnah would have made a far better explanation of how the Spitfire was put together, so that people like the commentator could have sat at home and watched , Fred,....sadly he now is steaming round some where in the clouds.

Peter R-B
Lancashire

IMHO...the best ever Spitfire prog I have seen on TV,

Yes Guy Martin has an unusual style but that's the way he is...I enjoy it.....in the real world he is a skilled mechanic.

I wish that programmes like this would go deeper into the engineering and mechanics, but realise this would not interest a huge chunk of the potential audience. Guy is very skilled, motivated, enthusiastic and yes, mildly irritating at times, but if he is the type presenter which a programme like this needs to get the backing to make it, then that's a price I accept!

Dibnah was superb, fantastic draftsman, illustrator and calligraphist too.

Steve Williams (The Fast Show) did a great job of presenting "Off The Rails" and "Industrial Revelations", as did Chris Barrie (Red Dwarf) on Massive Machines, adding a bit of humour but without belittling the subject matter.

Interesting to see engine mounting bolts going in from below with the nut on top. Split pinned nuts have been known to come loose, regardless.

I always like the feeling of security by having the nut at the bottom....if it falls off you still have the bolt! I have not heard of pinned nuts working loose myself, but anything that can happen will, and anything that can't happen might!

That's what I thought when I saw it, even mentioned it to Mrs. C. But if you watch carefully, it's not a bolt, but a pin threaded both ends, with recessed nuts.

Sorry about the fuzzy pictures, TVs don't photograph well.

Just noticed that the fasteners that attach the rod end to the mount tube have the nuts on top!

As much as I do share the initial disdain of 'upside down' bolts, this does seem to be a rather unnecessary concern when contemplated with consideration to the stresses, strains and potential catastrophe should anyone of a myriad internal threaded components let go while spinning round at amazin' speed within a Merlin at flat chat or thereabouts.

And what pray tell has been done to the ends of the threaded components of the mounting flange in the first of those pictures? That bit of butchery surely can't be a finished securing technique!!!


jg

It's called peening and was one acceptable method of stopping a screw backing out of a nut in those days. Another that I noted somewhere in the programme was the use of several equally spaced centre-punch 'pops' at the emergence of the threads of the bolt from the nut. The 'pops' distorted the thread of the bolt and the surface of the nut, blending one into the other and preventing rotation.

I've had a quick web look but can't find a reference for these two methods.

Peening or Peining I believe, often done with the ball end of a ball pein / ball peen hammer. Not quite sure of why the different spellings, perhaps US/UK.

I once saw a photo of a Napier aero engine (Air and Space Smithsonian I think) and the close-up showed every bolt beautifully hammered into an almost perfect dome over the end of the nut. From my experience it is great for keeping a nut on, but but not so fun if/when you need to get the nut off in a hurry

unfortunately the vibration present in those engines required those sorts of retention ! likewise bolts in the nose area of hunters due to vibration from gunfiring !

Doh....
 

I fail to see what an interesting documentary like that needs such an irritating talking-head for. Better just to have followed the real engineers involved. :hmm:

It prob would not have made TV if that was the case,

Wouldn't do if we were all alike you know.....

The programme needed a commentator, Guy Martin did a fair job. "The real engineers" also spoke...........

PM

Loved the programme and the enthusiasm of Guy..... maybe we have been ex-pat for too long but both Mrs Smiffy and myself were, at times, completely flummoxed when trying to make out what the feller actually said at times!! Anybody else suffer the same?

....I think there is a subtitles facility on iPlayer....:p

Cant......or shouldnt....use iplayer outside of blighty!! Didnt see it via that, but for heavens sake, this is one Brit listening to another!! Surely I should be able to understand the man?!! Great programme but quite unable to understand the chap at times.

I enjoyed the program but I couldn't stand Guy Martin. He's as irritating as Claudia Winkleman. He wouldn't shut up with that awful accent.

I would have liked to see much more of the engineering, one minute it was in pieces, the next it was flying!

Peening...
 

...was an acceptable way of securing nuts when I was a Handley Page apprentice back in the sixties, but I remember that Nyloc self-securing nuts were just coming in.

Backinthe day,it was peening, centre-popping, castellated nut and split-pin or wire,or a half-nut (locknut)....the Aerotight? self-locking nut, withthe slots onthe top-face, tri-lobalnuts, Nylocknuts, are all relatively new inventions.
Peeningaltersthe srructureof the metalat a crystalline level....wether this was advantageous, I know not. In the early 60's I builtaluminium yacht-spars. Where a through-bolt was required,a stainless stud was used, components assembled to each side, half-nuts to secure,cut off surplus and then peen over. Effectively, you had both a nut AND a rivet-head securing the fittings.....they could be free to swivel but not loosen and there were no sharpprotrusions to catch hands,ropes or sails.

Dismantling invariably meant a hacksaw , file or grinder and a new stud/nuts. never heard of a failure.

Passion
 

A great programme with a passionate presenter who captured the precision aspects of restoring this classic Spitfire Mk.1 aircraft.
I'm sure we will be seeing a lot more of Guy and his lovely accent in the future.

I also have a sneaky feeling the ladies like Guy too.

You can see him on Sunday night....his new series Speed With Guy Martin Chan 4 8pm,

He was on Radio 4 this morning.

Duxford - Free Entry Remembrance Sunday 9th November
 

Went to Duxford on Wednesday for a flight on the Rapide. Naturally looked around the GM Spit, strange there is no reference to it being the one in the TV programme. Missed opportunity ?

I was disappointed overall, last visit 10 years ago and very little has happened. The airliner group have made progress with the static airliners but I was underwhelmed. Chatting to a very nice volunteer, he remarked that IWM would love to be rid of the airliners and seemingly are more interested in corporate events than getting on with restoring a/c.

Cosford next !

If what is said is true, then it is a very sad inditement of the IWM. Would be very interesting to hear the IWM's comments.

PM

Such a shame that Cosford chopped up there 707 and VC-10.

IWM and civil airliners
 

Sad comment about IWM and civil airliners. So much of the UKs great aviation heritage had ended up in the national dustbin that it would not surprise me to see those old airliners go the same way. After all they've only got to leave them outside for long enough and the weather and health and safety will do the job for them. Best go and see them while we can, I think, before they end up on the scrapheap or in the USA.

HZ123
 

Just to say that we went to the Remembrance Day service at Duxford a couple of years ago and found it was particularly nicely presented and very touching. Sadly the weather was dreadful and it wasn't particularly busy, but I remember remarking on the stark contrast between the conditions in the newer exhibition halls and the older buildings and outside exhibits. Its certainly a pity they can't get more of the big civil stuff under cover. By chance last year we called in at Cosford on the way through to Shrewsbury and I was surprised to find it still free except for the car park charge. Didn't have time for a full visit but the big shop and outside exhibits, including a C130 Hercules and RAF Trsnsport Command Britannia were very accessible. I also enjoyed a good day with the grandchildren down at the RAF museum at Hendon fairly recently. Lots of interesting hands-on stuff for the kids, old and young, and also still free. Good luck with your visits!

I think the problem is that the letters stand for Imperial War Museum.

They do have civil aircraft in the exhibition hall, but it seems only those that have air force credentials.

Leaving aircraft outside does them no good at all. Down at the de Havilland Aircraft Museum those aircraft that are kept indoors remain presentable as exhibits, those left outside because there isn't enough room indoors suffer from rain, snow and ultra-violet radiation. Unless the hangar appeal drums up enough cash they will eventually end up as piles of aluminum oxide.

The 'RAF Brit' at Cosford.
 

Its interesting to note that the said 'RAF Brit', unlike an actual RAF Brit has a full size main deck cargo door so its actually a civilian Brit painted in RAF colours

Actually, its a 312F, G-AOVF ex BOAC and a lot of other smaller airlines. I know that to be true as I signed the C of C for its last flight into Cosford. I honestly believed that it didn't want to go as it kept throwing up difficult electrical problems that delayed its delivery, e.g. no reverse on the props. Something the captain, John Ginns, insisted on having due to the short length of the runway. Quite right too!.

G-AOVF....I bet that was one that British Eagle converted in Liverpool/Speke when I was a kid...prob around 1968.

Nick.

Factoryfatty
 

Stop moaning about Guy Martin as many of these shows that are of of great interest to many people, not just those in the business, as without the likes of him we would not have such shows.

I loved the programme; although could have done with some sub-titles as I found Guy Martin very difficult to understand at times.

I watched the programme and found Guy Martin incredibly irritating.

Then I found out he was a super bike champion and strapped himself to one of those beasts and hurtled around the Isle of Man etc.

He went right up in my estimation even with the sideburns and over the top accent:ok:

Guy Martin was irritating and his pieces to camera were either unintelligible or just plain crass. I guess that's the price for pandering to a dumbed-down audience.

It's a shame Raymond Baxter is not still with us.

Limitless Appetite.
 

It's 'horses for courses'. Frankly, I'd never even heard of Guy Martin before, and it certainly wan't 'his' Spit'. There are plenty of people in aviation who'd have been vastly more knowledgable, able and effective, rather than a complete oddball and outsider - and don't tell me that 'added' to the program, it did not.
The program was OK for a bit of ear-floss, but if they'd have focussed more on the engineering challenges - instead of some oddball most of us have never even heard of, the program would have been vastly better. (So he rides bikes....and the relevance is..?). Sure he was enthusiastic, but that was not in itself germane to the subject matter. None of this was Guy Martins fault of course.
It was a great idea for a program - an interesting subject marred by some media 'expert' wanting to try and give the subject a spin that it simply didn't need. The appetite for 'Spitfire' themed subjects is, we may be certain, virtually limitless..... Just ask the magazine publishers...! :)

Spitfire wings made of wood...!!
 

Sometimes you have to wonder about the BBC - on "The People Remember" this morning, when talking about the lumberjills of WW2 the presenter Ellie Harrison said: " Home grown timber was needed to make everything from Spitfire wings to rifle butts and pit props." Spitfire wings from wood......!!