Jet! When Britain ruled the Skies.
 

Just starting now on BBC4 (and, I'm sure, to feature soon on iPlayer).

Well, IMHO, it was great.

BBC iPlayer - Jet! When Britain Ruled the Skies: Military Marvels (Signed)


This is episode 1 of 2. The second episode will cover the civilian side of things.

A lot to fit in in 60mins, but as these things go it was very good :ok:



SHJ

Excellent program - one question - what was the aircraft with no tail fin that had a brief fly-by over the camera? It's really bugging me!!

One or two research items needed clarifying. The Germans had ejector seats before us. 1942 was long before Martin Baker. Test pilot Helmut Schenck used one in anger escaping from a He 280 twin jet fighter.
From the time of Schenck's successful escape to the end of the Second World War, approximately 60 Luftwaffe airmen ejected from their planes in combat situations.

They also missed showing the Miles M52 saga to really show the world we had the technology. I guess 60 minutes is not enough to cover such a fascinating period of aircraft production.

The prat Duncan Sandys [son in law of WSC] who single handedly screwed up the Aircraft Industry/RAF/Navy with his "Aircraft are out of date, the Guided missile is King" decisions was only repeating his failure as Chairman of a War Cabinet Committee for defence against German flying bombs and rockets. Prof.RV Jones loathed him [with good reason].

Good to see so many RAF and Navy aircraft once again!

The John Derry DH 110 crash was my first [aged 11] real experience of life and its ups and downs. I was in the crowd but well in front of the carnage.

Looking forward to part two.

Dagnabit, forgot to record it!

I know it's on iPlayer but will it be reshown again on TV so I can set up a Series link?

Part 1 is repeated on BBC4 23:00 28/08.

Thanks Dave, see you over at RS.

but no mention of the stalwart .. the Buccaneer!!!! :( (or did I blink and miss it?)

The Bucc was seen fleetingly in a FAA fly past, and the Swift was featured on a couple of occasions too. I thoroughly enjoyed the programme, and it seems many others did too.

Agreed, too much to fit in to an hour but the audience is probably not there for two hours of military detail.

Whilst they discussed the numebr of test pilots who went West, there was no mention of the many ordinary RAF pilots who followed them. The process of converting from prop to jet was learnt the hard way. Readers of this forum will know of the slow response times of the early jets and that the pilot converting would think that the engine was not responding (since it did not give the fast response of the prop) and so open the throttle further. Then all the power would arrive in one bang. Many were lost.

I'm biased as my uncle was an instructor whose student put them in when they were very low - too low for recovery or bail out. That was 6th August 1953.

Back to the programme, the commentary was well spoken for diction but the actress had been directed to the rather 'breathy' and 'awe inspired' tone that is used too often. Having grown up with the 'practical' approach of Horizon and T'rows World (in it's Hay Day!) I prefer a commentary that just tells me the story - rather than dressing it up.

I will watch next week's because this did have veracity from the crews and that was worth a great deal. Tebbit was supernumerary, I thought. He just said how wonderful it all was - without any of the downsides. Almost like he'd been a politician.

"ruled the skies" is a bit rich

of the aircraft listed we had to pretty much GIVE them away (other than the Canberra & the Hunter) to get any export orders

and when you think what the USA had in production in the 50's & 60's - almost embarrassing

Harry

On the face of it, perhaps. But in the aftermath of WW2, we did surprisingly very well. It was post-amalgamation of all our aircraft companies, and the management thereof, was when it all went wrong. The UK aircraft industry was in need of a diet, but it went too far: the lack of competitiveness was a damning factor.

For those of us involved in aviation it could have easily stretched to 2 more programs with more detail, however for the general consumption of the British Public, I would say it was about right.

And yes, an excellent programme.

jindabyne

good point - when you look back at the "great" British industries 1945-1980 what strikes is just how awful the management were in general - aviation, shipbuilding, motor cars................................

they really didn't have a clue

Heathrow HarryWere?
They have improved?
:ugh:

The unions were at their most powerful in those days. The main aim seemed to be in preventing the management from managing.:sad:

Soldeed: don't recall an aircraft with no tailfin, do you mean tailplane? If so maybe you mean the DH 106 Swallow; basically a Vampire fuselage fitted with a swept wing. There was also a too brief clip of the Short Sherpa, also with a fin and no tailplane but with sort of rotating wingtips instead of ailerons/elevators.

So did the Swedes.

The unions do take their share of the blame of course but our industry management was truly appalling - as was lack of investment (a british disease).
And then we end up with just one incompetent company :rolleyes:

edit...
Forgot to also include our woderful government departments and possibly a certain airline !!

I watched it last night as had recorded it. Those magnificent men in their flying machines! Incredible to see the Vulcan rolled.
Looking forward to the next one.

The story of the Comet, the Nimrod and Britain's procurement of a radar picket (AWACS type) aircraft would make a long and possibly heart-breaking programme

I think you mean the DH 108 Swallow.

The DH 106 was the Comet airliner.

chevvron: Sorry, my mistake, long day and not with it - I'd read of the Shorts Sherpa, but never seen one in flight. Many thanks :)

Tableview: It was nice to see the Vulcan barrel rolling, but it was Tony Blackman's roll off the top that I was impressed with - read about it in his book, but never seen!

The RAF dabbled with the idea way back in 1955, albeit with an American Neptune rather than a dedicated British design.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...RAFNeptune.jpg

I took this photo at Biggin Hill during the 1955 Royal Observer Corps "Recognition Day". It shows RAF Neptune MR1 WX547 from the Fighter Command Vanguard Flight (1453 Flight) based at Topcliffe in Yorkshire.

Vanguard Flight Neptunes carried out some of the initial Airborne Early Warning Radar trials over the North Sea, but I have no knowledge of the outcome of these trials.

PS

A bit of Googling and I came up with this:

In the second programme I ran one section back three times and am certain a shot of a VC10 taking off (from behind) showed 6 engines. the extra ones apparently mounted below the outboard ones. Or am I seeing something else - like senility?

A quick visit to Specsavers might be wise :)

I suggest that what you were seeing is the outboard upper reverse-thrust grills. In the shots that you describe I agree that it briefly looks like there could be six engines, but it's just a deceptive angle of view.

''Incredible to see the Vulcan rolled''.

Both the Vulcan and the Victor were aerobatted. At the time it was assumed one or other would win the contract and the test pilots wanted to show their company's product off. Both prototypes subsequently crashed. The Victor at Cranfield when the tailplane came off while being tested for pressure correction at low level and the Vulcan at Syerston when it was oversped and broke up.

The VC10 could have five engines - one in the transport pod fitted to the starboard wing root.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../8/1822833.jpg

Nothing unique about the VC10 carrying a spare engine.

Aircraft Ferrying Extra Engines — Tech Ops Forum | Airliners.net

5th pod..
 

for Capt Camberly-Golf Course to carry his clubs :E

I thought both programmes were excellent considering how much they had to cover in two hours. Regarding the amalgamation of aircraft companies into two major groups, Handley Page was the only one not to participate and was not awarded any more government contracts, other than supporting existing airframes in RAF service. I remember Sir Frederick Handley Page making a very bitter speech as guest of honour during a dining in night at Northwood in late 1961, or early 1962, after the Avro 748/Andover had been chosen for the RAF in preference to the HP Dart Herald.

I loved the shot of the VC10 office with the chap in the left hand seat smoking a pipe en-route!

r

Most people smoked in those days.

And three engines when testing the RB211.

>Most people smoked in those days.

Indeed. My dad, (1914-2012) was an RAF ground engineer, has photos of his time in WWII, and a pipe seemed part of the standard issue kit!

Lots of VC-10, but nil re 1-11s a better export than the 10 !

How would I be seeing upper reverse thrust gills below an engine on take off?

Well, clearly its my eyes, but there was something there and it wasn't topsy turvy reversers at the wrong end of the flight...