P-40 found in the Sahara Desert
 

Shamelessly lifted from another forum, hot on the heels of the Spitfires in Burma comes this one....

WWW.KONRADUS.COM - LOTNICTWO - Znalezisko

Using Google Translate;

"My friend works in the Sahara looking for oil and gas. Recently, however, they came upon something completely different ..."

Assuming this is genuine, I would be most interested to see who ends up with the ownership of the wreck.

I've got one of those in the loft.

It says AIRFIX on the box.

HL

Well I think I (and others I suspect) would be very keen to see an Airfix kit turn out like that.

If this P-40 is a fake it's a very good one.

I don't think it's that good at all, apart from the rear fuselage closeup and cockpit shots.

After that amount of time in the desert, would not the cockpit be full of sand?

However, the aeroplane is sitting right wing low, and the slip indicator in the cockpit photograph is to the right, which is correct.

Also note the cloud formations from different angles.

The vacant space at the top left left in the cockpit photograph is where, I believe, a clock would have been fitted.

It was standard practice to remove the clock upon vacating the aeroplane if possible, because they were clockwork operated.

If this is a fake, either Photoshopped or a model diorama, then the perpetrator knew quite a lot.

I also understand that the RAF has been asked for help in identifying the aeroplane.

The terrain must have changed, wind, sand, etc. Imagine what that thing would have looked like had he bellied in on that load of exposed rock. As it is it looks surprisingly intact. Hope he survived, poor bastard.

In the last pic there appears to be oil splotches??? Also green camo. Was this normal? Even after fading.....

Not a model
 

In models, the fine details have to be done at a larger scale than the gross scale, else they don't stand out. A model cockpit would have much coarser piping and instruments. If it's CGI, it's the best I've seen. If a fake, it must be full size movie set, I should think. The easiest interpretation is that this is real, though the location is another question

The photos lack contrast, and have an unusual patina and resolution. The terrain almost looks like Mars. Why no photos of squadron markings, and why no people standing next to the aircraft?

If that's a model, I can't see any glue like on mine. Almost too good to be true. Queries... Why is the canopy closed? Appears closed in the interior shot too. Why is there not more damage to the airframe and engine where it "fell off"? In the shot of the open hatch, there are two small tears in the skin that could have been made by (if it's a model) tweezer points - why is the damage from inside out? Given the amount of damage to the underside it's slightly surprising that the control surfaces match the stick position. Anyway, forgive my cynicism. If real, it's a wonderful discovery. If a model, someone has real skill. Cheers!

Well - a few others have been discussing this:
Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Any P-40 experts care to comment on this image?
Real or fake: British WWII P-40 found in the Sahara - AR15.COM
P-40 from Sahara - Page 3 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Any P-40 experts care to comment on this image?

Why has it got what appears to be two turn and slip indicators?

Interesting question. You would have to find a P40 expert. The lower one with the smashed glass looks like the official one. The top one has a caging knob on it which is something I have never seen before.

The upper instrument seems to be a combined DG and slip indicator. The caging knob is presumably for the DG.

Dave

If it is for real, it's an unusual collection of images to offer for public display. Despite all the military aviation interest, why are no more forthcoming ? I'm on the fence with this one . . . Terry

At the moment I'm tempted to think that it is a real P-40, found in the claimed area of the desert...but I think the photographs may be old. So it isn't a recent find.
The only thing I'm basing this thought on is that a) there would be great media interest in the find already b) Mostly people carry digital camera's now so they could easily shoot lots of pictures c) Other than the original post there are no additional posts with other pictures or details d) If the RAF had been advised wouldn't some Ppruners know by now?

Anyway - I'd love to see more images and know more about the story even if it is a find from many years ago.

Does anyone know if from the image it can be deduced if it is a scan of a film or a digital photo?


On another site they are speculating on the squadron...:P-40 from Sahara - Page 4 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

these photos are good but not quite right. my $5 says the photos are the work of a very good Photoshop artist.

If that is the case it shows some incredible knowledge of wartime aircraft, engineering & the effects of a crash & weathering.

P-40 from Sahara - Page 7 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Could someone clever comment on the direction that the prop tips are bent?

My limited experience says its the wrong way in the pics.

One that is visible is bent backwards one appears to be bent forwards...hard to say what was bent before & after it got ripped off the engine.

Hmmm - a matter of perspective, I think!

Next question - how does the prop assembly get to be at the right rear when the damage indicates it went over/under the left wing. More bent cowling on that side.

I'm having trouble seeing how those last few yards of the landing played out.

Quite badly it appears.

As soon as I saw the first three photos, I thought: model. The focus isn't at all convincing to my eyes and the the whole panorama just smacks of a carefully-arranged set-up.
To begin with, I've spent a bit of time in hot & dusty places and would therefore expect to see a fair bit of sand in the engine compartment, which there isn't. Speaking of which, there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of damage to the cowling areas considering the reduction gear is supposed to have been ripped out (especially to the forward bulkhead attachments at the support frame aft of the spinner).
The fourth photo shows a scene that wouldn't be beyond the capability of a skilled modelmaker and the oil spots (after how many years?) on the wing root fillet show that he's gone a bit too far with his 'authenticity'.
BTW, anyone noticed that the magnetos are turned on and the throttle & mixture controls are fully forward... Hardly a forced landing configuration. :hmm:
The whole thing's a clever con in my opinion and it's probably generated the heat that the initiator intended.

So how does it get there? Care to speculate on those last few yards of motion?

Yeah, but would a skilled model maker or photo-shopper have gone to the extent of an open hatch that because it is open but part of a bent fuselage actually be cut by the metal of the fuselage and bent so that there was no view of the open compartment...? That's just too serendipitous for my liking.

I'm going to stick with '..real but from maybe a decade or multiple decades ago.'

Interesting - if you up the Gamma on picture #3, there's a fair amount of engine detail visible in the dark shadows of the nose, and much more detail visible on the rear end of the detached prop hub. If it's a fake it's a very skilled modeller :confused:

I Vote Real....:ok:

Oh come on !!! They are obviously fake and I cannot believe so many people have been duped. If not a model, then it looks like stills from a flight sim enviroment, created in the same way as a flight sim. The landscape in the first and second photos is different, where did those clouds in the second photo suddenly come from that weren't in the first one, and, the paintwork would be FAR more weathered, it would be barely visible if at all. Not even worth discussing this any more.

Some time around 1965/6 we took two Sioux helicopters out to El Adem, courtesy of a Beverly and an Argosy from the RAF. The aircraft were reassembled and we flew them west wards to an old WW2 fighter field called Timimi where an armoured battle group was in camp for a month doing live fire battle runs, we flew a whole lot of hours all over the place, areas that had not been overflown at low level and low speed since the war and saw wrecks of vehicles and aircraft that looked as though it happened much more recently than twenty three years.

Very dry air, no corrosion to speak of etc. and in the case of these pictures it is a very rocky looking piece of desert with not a whole lot of sand to fill up or cover up the wreck. Which ever way I vote will be wrong so I'll just leave the above as additional info!:)

Mag switches and throttle in the wrong position are easily explained by passing nomads.

Well, at least they had the manners to close the canopy once they'd finished playing. :)

And if you were the guy who took the photos, wouldn't you want to play with the controls and perhaps even get in if the canopy still slides. So, if it is indeed real the control & canopy positions don't really mean anything.

Just watched these two, now doing the rounds.

Well, those vids are the clincher. Genuine.
Looks like the photos pre-date the vids tho, so it's likely to have been picked clean now :-(

Now that's some clever model making and photo-shopping innit then ;-P


Great pity that it appears there was / is very little that'll be left to save.

Fair enough - can't argue with that! :O

Well I guess that settles it!

The canopy is wholly intact in the video, it appears.

Hmmm, what can I say ? The video looks more genuine than the photos. Typical of the Arabs to salvage the guns and ammo packs. Hehe, I wonder if they're still usable, they'll come in handy.

Can anyone judge from the vehicles seen in the video, what year approximately ?

The description says 'Egypt 2012.03' and it was only uploaded to YouTube on Friday, if that helps at all.

If that is indeed Eygpt, I wonder if it could be a 112 squadron a/c?