Vickers Viscount-Aviation's Aristocracy
 

Hi all,

Ive flown on the same Vickers Viscount both as a kid ( in 1972) and as an adult ( in 1996). G-APEY is the machine, and it flew off away from Britain's shores back in 1997 for a new life in Africa. Its possible that there is one airworthy specimen left, out of a build of 4 1/2 hundred. First flown in 1948, and several still in use in Africa until a few years ago ( with the possible aformentioned airworthy one left?) the Viscount had a wonderful sound, and looked graceful flying overhead. Many people's first holiday flight was on a Viscount, going to the Sun.

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Any flight stories, as Pilots or Cabin crew, from these magnificent aircraft? Your input would be much enjoyed! Most people who know nothing about aircraft that Ive talked to, usually pipe up with a comment like " Oh! I flew on a Viscount!"--its well remembered.

My first flight on G-APEY , a longer bodied 800 series, was in 1972 on B.E.A , replacing a Trident3 which had gone u/s , and the massive windows and shrill sound of the Rolls-Royce Darts were never to be forgotten by me. I had the chance to fly again on her again in 1996, when British Air Ferries were stopping passenger flights and converting all of their Viscounts to cargofreighter specification . It was also successful in breaking sales to the U.S.A. and China ( final production in 1964 of 1/2 a dozen aircraft going there for C.A.A.C.).

I agree; a splendid aircraft was the Viscount. I flew as a passenger in G-BAPF an ex-South African airways machine that ended up in the BMA fleet. It was the early 1980's and I flew on it a number of times from LHR to LBA. I was at Brooklands museum earlier this week with my young daughter and we boarded the former British Air Ferries Viscount that is preserved; sadly no engines will run on this machine; but they do have some sound of a Viscount engine they occasionally play through the old P/A system!

It would be nice to see an airworthy Viscount fly; I guess the chances in the UK are zero; but maybe in Southern Africa? Even if its just fast taxi runs; just to hear those Rolls Royce Dart's screaming away, marvelous!

What an adventure perhaps to get one airworthy and fly her home to the UK? Now there's a thought!

I flew on CAA, Air Rhodesia and SAA Viscounts. Magnificent machines which had personality and charisma. Sadly two of RH's were shot down by terrorist murderers, whose successors are still in power in the country.

I flew on BEA Viscounts a couple of times and worked with them whilst abroad. Great crews and I daren't relate any of the stories on here! Wonder what happened to Capt Bert Orris..?
The Viscount was an infinitely better looking aircraft than the great lard-bag the Trident and must have been the last civil airliner produced in such a large quantity in the UK.

As young-ish SLF I flew to Germany a few times and will always remember those wonderful windows which were the closest thing to actually sitting outside! Would be wonderful to see one flying again...........

Boscombe Down had a rasberry ripple one with a pointy FJ radar nose that used to fly extremely low level over Norfolk/Suffolk back in the late 70's. Anyone got pics of that machine?

And that strident Dart note.......

I also agree that the Viscount was a charismatic aircraft, never to be forgotten once you had flown in one. My initial trip was in 1964 to Guernsey, for a first visit to my new girlfriend's home island. I checked in at BEA's West London Air Terminal in Cromwell Road, South Kensington. That was before the tube link direct to Heathrow was built, and was also well before all the world and his wife started travelling by air on low priced mass package holidays. The feeling of doing something special and dare I say it, "posh", was encouraged by the smart, modern air terminal and the swift dedicated BEA transport to Heathrow, with the luggage already checked in and towed behind the bus ready for loading on arrival.

Most passengers dressed smartly for the flight experience then, and the appearance and aura of the sleek and modern Viscount on boarding seemed to justify that sartorial effort. Big oval windows, comfortable seats, and that thrilling whine from the four Darts all combined to give the short-haul journey a tingling excitement sadly no longer felt nowadays, the novelty having long since worn off. Oh, and I was in a pleasant mood of anticipation at seeing my girlfriend, a student nurse in London, briefly home in Guernsey and waiting to show me around. During that blissful journey I couldn't resist putting down the drinks table and standing a 3d coin on edge on it (the old threepenny bit, pre-decimalisation). This was a popular gimmick to demonstrate the lack of vibration on turbo-props at that time. And it stayed upright, just as it should!

I've never forgotten that first Viscount experience, and like LAS1997 I entered the Brooklands example with a feeling of pleasant familiarity a couple of years ago. What memories it stirred! And I eventually married that young Guernsey nurse, so everything went perfectly ... :)

Captain Bert Orris
 

Sadly Bert passed away a few years ago but still missed by those who knew him.A true gentleman.

BA Viscount 800 farewell tour to Kirkwall March 1982
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LAS1997

G-BAPF was an ex Lufthansa/Condor aircraft and was an 814 whereas the ex SAA machines were all 813s. The story goes that the then Mike Bishop went to SA and put in a bid for either one or two of their fleet and finished up with all seven plus a simulator and several tons of spares which helped keep BMA viable for a good few years.

I agree that they were a wonderful old aircraft. I flew them off and on for twenty years and still (I think) miss them.

Thanks Boris; yes of course the BMA Viscount G-BAPF was indeed ex-Lufthansa. I flew over it a few weeks ago in a helicopter. It now rests at Morton-in-Marsh; the Home Office Fire Training College in Hot Air colours.

Don't want to spoil the party but
 

I know this will get me into trouble (it has in the past) but an ex colleague of mine, who had been Chief Pilot with Aer Lingus (and had a very close association with Viscounts) thought that the aircraft was an absolute dog ‘redeemed only by the excellence of its engines’.

Was he by any chance American trained? There was an American view that, "With 4 good enough engines you can fly a s***house door; you guys have managed to fly the entire s***house". Most of those who flew the Viscount on this side of the pond thought this was probably motivated by professional jealousy emanating from a rival US manufacturer.

We tend to forget what an incredible technical advance the Viscount was in the 50s (800 in particular). Dakota UK domestic block times were halved - often within a few minutes of what current jets achieve - and smoothness and pressurised comfort were simply in a different league. The 800 cockpit was the first in Britain to attempt an ergonomic layout.
As my earlier pic showed, they were still providing reliable service to the islands of Scotland till 1982.
I could go on!

The mainstay of domestic flying during the 60's and 70's and a frequent visitor to most UK airports! So popular with numerous, mainly long gone, operators. Good looking, the unmistakeable sound of four darts and with those splendid windows a delightful mode of transport. Fond memories.

My father used to work on Viscounts at Hurn airport back in the day. I've got some old pictures somewhere.

Radioian,

That last shot was a magnificent picture, with a group of superb aircraft I remember well - and both the Viscount and the VC-10 in what I still think of as their 'proper' colours. When & where was it taken do you know?

The Viscount was one of my favourite airliners, with its large oval windows, lovely noise - and much greater speed & comfort than the old BEA Dakotas, even late on when used by Alidair (?) for oil charter flights to Shetland. (Though I also liked the Caravelle - it amazes me that the Brussels Air museum has an early model hanging from its ceiling ! Smaller than I recalled. )

And - ah VC-10s. Wonderful on the East Africa run.

My wife also flew quite a few times on a BOAC Viscount - "The Scottish Princess" . One of only two as far as I know, the other being "The Scottish Prince". One did the Scottish link runs from Prestwick, the other the Irish one.

Happy days.

Ah Viscount - First time Gibraltar Airways to Tangier back in 1971.

Re Air Rhodesia see:Viscounts in Africa – The Air Rhodesia Story - Disasters - The Hunyani Disasterand The Umniati Disaster. The first of these produced one of the most powerful sermons from an Anglican Minister in Modern times see: The Silence is Deafening

Best of British
 

The aircraft was a major memory of my younger days - will any aircraft ever have such great big windows again? - I doubt it. My Mum returned from Paris on one in the first year of it's service 1953, - and I wish I had a pound for every flight I took on them in the 60s 70s and 80s. BA retired them from their regional fleets in 1985, but I recall two more return trips on this wonderful a/c at later dates.
In the late 80s and early 90s I worked (for my sins) in what is known as 'Corporate Hostility', sorry, correction, 'Hospitality'! and in the course of one of my trips in 1987 I took a group from Gibraltar, where we were staying, on a day trip to Tangier so that they could experience the shortest intercontinental flight twice in the one day. On our return I requested, and was granted, the cockpit jump seat, as any landing into Gib's short runway with the wet stuff at each end is always interesting.
My last-ever Viscount trip was another Corporate Away-Day to Le Touquet from Birmingham in 1990. On our return leg I was seated in the row where you could see all four props (noisy but nice if you're a fan). On leaving the a/c I put my head in the cockpit and told them that in the descent the no. 2 prop hub had iced up - and my last memory of this wonderful a/c as I walked away to the terminal was of the skipper peering out of the open cockpit window at the F/O now down on the ramp with his hand on no. 2 spinner to check if it was heating up!
Great airplane - Great Memories of the dear departed days when airline flying was a pleasure, unlike the post 9-11, crass, "security" dominated, "race to the bottom" missmanaged mass-misery experience de nos jours.
'Night all.

"The 800 cockpit was the first in Britain to attempt an ergonomic layout"

And what a dismal failure that was ! :(

Emeritus.

They made amends with the Guardsvan - the flight deck was as big as a football pitch!

And what a dismal failure that was ! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/sowee.gif

Would you care to qualify that? Compared to what?
It might depend on what stage in the life of the Viscount (or your own) you experienced it. But in the 50s, it was a considerable advance over anything else available at the time.

I'm in the no doubt enviable position of seeing this little darlin' (D-ANAF) every time I go in to 'verk' here and if you like original smells, then this one has them time-warped into the original seating! She's had her inboards removed (no doubt to prevent escape attempts...:E) but is still used for basic mechanic training (no longer cabin staff, they have their own sims across the road).

It was a British Eagle Viscount that brought me here in 1965 (G-ATDU), and a memorable trip to Berlin that December took FOUR of B.E.A.'s fleet to get there, due to two fog diversions at destination, first back to Frankfurt and the following day to Hannover (G-AOHI, W, L and M)! Of course we missed our planned meeting, and a phone call to East Berlin in those days could take forever, or they charged treble. It worked out in the end, but we were still able to enjoy 'Those Magnificent Men...' at the Zoo Palast (with Gerd Froebe the only actor who wasn't dubbed!).

Happy Cold War days....we were happy to come in from it......;)

cheers
ATB

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Opssys thank you for posting that. Very poignant to me as I lived in Rhodesia when those two aircraft were shot down. It's unfortunate that the world considers them 'disasters' because they were acts of cowardly terrorism of the worst kind, not disasters.

I first saw D-ANAF on 30th May 1962 on its way out of London Airport (I think they call it something else now!). Nice to know the old girl is still standing...

This is a view out of one of those lovely large windows on my first trip to Frankfurt from LHR on 25 June 1965, aircraft was EG's G-ANRS.
Apologies for the poor quality, the print I scanned is as old as that memory!

http://www.english-for-flyaways.de/a..._June_1965.jpg

By way of qualification...

the Viscount cockpit showed very little in the way of ergonomics.

Cramped,poor visibility,controls scattered and not grouped made for a high workload and the lighting was woeful.

It certainly was successful from a passenger point of view but the airconditioning was totally inadequate in warmer climates.

From a working enviornement (?) point of view the DC4/6 was far better.

Thats my view after 4 years on 720,747 and 816/832 types often all types in one duty period.

720...switches up for on. 747...switches down for on ! Go figure :ugh:

Try switches towards the horizon for on (DC9). Worked ok for me. Perhaps you have underlined why current multi-type rating wasn`t such a good idea.

The Viscount had two distinct types of cockpit on both 700s and 800s. Whilst the "American" type on the 814 was a distinct improvement over the older type cockpit which still struggled through on the BEA 800s and even the 832 if I remember correctly, I have to agree with you generally and in particular about the aircon which was non-existent until after take off.

"That last shot was a magnificent picture, with a group of superb aircraft I remember well - and both the Viscount and the VC-10 in what I still think of as their 'proper' colours. When & where was it taken do you know?"

I haven't seen an answer to that so will opine that its Manchester Ringway and in the late 60s / early 70s.

Vrp jodrell bank
 

I agree - Manchester Ringway - I believe that you can see Jodrell Bank Radio Telescope through the mist - centre skyline.

The first Viscount I got up close to was at Heathrow in October 1953 at the start of the London to Christchurch (NZ) air race.

G-AMAV in BEA colours took part with race number 23 as seen here in my photo taken at the time.

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My first ever flight was in a Channel Airways Viscount (a 700 series I think) in about 1966, from Southend to Rotterdam. I was hooked on flying from then on.

The last one I went on was with London European from Luton to Amsterdam in 1985, it was a pleasure to look out those large windows again. What a wonderful sound those dart engines made.

I was lucky enough to be seconded to BEA in 1964 flying the Viscount 802/806 (my day job was flying Argosys). I remember it as being a pleasant aircraft to fly and, with roughly the same engines but having a MTOW of about 65% the weight of the Argosy, we thought it went like a bit of a greyhound.

If I remember rightly, the 802 engines were measured in JPT and the 806 in TGT. The toilets were also in a different place but apart from that, the two versions were very similar.

One thing that I remember was the layout of the centre pedestal. The four throttles were on the left and the four HP cocks were on the right. Behind them were four "fire channels" evenly spaced containing the LP cocks, the fire buttons and the feathering buttons (I think).

So it was that the No.3 fire channel was immediately behind the No.2 HP cock so it was quite easy when shutting down No.2 engine to shut down No.3engine at the same time! This I managed to do one day - fortunately in the simulator.

That particular arrangement was not very ergonomic!

Those windows. One BD stewardess shared with me that when she served the window seat across the row of three, she felt that she could easily fall out. The lovely Kim Lerner, who left us far too early.

I loved the way the whole airframe resonated with a deep groan when the first engine spooled up. It didn't happen with the others for some reason.

Growing up close to Castle Don., Viscounts were part of my everyday life. Then, studying at Leeds, I lived under the 32 centreline, and felt like saluting the BD418 every tea time.

We tend to think some transport machines will be around forever. However, I'm not so sure that we'll be as nostalgic about the 737-800.

Concerning ergonomics, there were at least two incidents during training related to engine failure drill, so I understand, both resulting in loss of the aircraft. I wonder if cockpit layout was a contributory factor?

I'm probably being a bit lazy asking this question on here, but is anyone aware of any dvds featuring the viscount.....preferably UK operators?

viscount flights
 

first time i flew on a viscount was a sports charter to holland on a euroair viscount fantastic noise huge windows but what made me laugh was the size of the seat belt what fantastic memorys.

A Viscount landed wheels up at Aldergrove one night by mistake on a training flight. Apparently it was the only aircraft on the fleet that didn't have an undercarriage horn.

Anyway, the trainee captain and his instructor got out OK and the story was that the first thing the trainee captain did was to call his wife and tell her not to spend any more money!

Can anyone explain (I've been wondering for years) the distinctive whine on the RT whenever a Viscount pilot (no jokes please) asked me for start clearance....this disappeared after start up.

Helen49, if your after a DVD with plenty of Viscount, including UK examples, you need to get your hands on "Vickers Props FAREWELL" produced by Airside with AVION.
PM if you can't find it on the web and I'll send you contact details - [I]don't want to upset the moderators in case its classed as advertising.
Hope that's helpful:)

and....
atb1943:D"Fantastic":ok:Remember it being their in 1994 when I was a Tech Rep for Airbus based at Frankfurt.
Any more pics?
Can't remember how functional from a systems perspective it was. Remember the Lufthansa apprentices working it in the hangar - also it being towed around, including towbarless tugs getting practice (which were a new and shiny idea then). If you have any influence over Lufthers please make sure it gets a good home when the time comes - it must surely be one of the most original, unmollested examples left - and if there was to be a flyer....well:8

Have to say if you want a good surf re Viscount past & present have a look here: Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount
and the book of all books:
The Vickers Viscount by Rayner GC Kittle, publisher Air Britain.
(ISBN 978-0-85130-401-4)
PFR:ok:

Thanks for the great photos. Like Capetonian and Opssys, I've mixed memories of the Viscount, which I only flew in as SLF. These date back to 1956, when the first of five CAA dash-748Ds (with slipper tanks) arrived at Salisbury. Considering the fatal main-spar failures that had grounded their Vikings, CAA may have had some misgivings about their second Vickers type. They soon became a regular sight and sound over our house, flying domestic and international schedules, including London.
In 1957, after the long flight SAY-LBG in a UAT DC6B, we completed the trip to LHR on a BEA 700-series: my first flight on a turbine-powered aeroplane.

An early tragedy involving the CAA-purchased Viscounts was the 1958 accident at Benina (Benghazi). VP-YNE was operating the "Zambesi" service from SAY to LHR, and hit a hill on a night-time, visual, straight-in approach to the north-westerly runway. There were some survivors, but we lost a family friend, who was returning to the UK to attend his father's funeral.

In the early 'Sixties, returning to school from the UK, I managed to include the trip from NBO to SAY via Mombasa and Dar-es-Salaam. Those massive windows on the 700-series – every one of which was an emergency exit I think – provided magnificent views of Kilimanjaro and the East-African coast.

My next flight in one, which could hardly have been a more different experience, was in 1970, when I was a copilot on Dart Heralds. Despite sharing similar engines, the Viscount was a hot ship compared with the Herald, and a lot prettier. Jack Jones (Channel Airways) had several 800s at Southend, and my crew had to position JER-SEN in one. Being a charter operator, Channel had fitted an astonishing number of seats, so leg-room was minimal. It was shortly after, I think, that one of them over-ran a very wet Rwy 06 at Southend, ending up on the railway line. For weeks after that, the wreckage remained in close view of departing aircraft approaching the Rwy 24 holding point.

In later years, on holiday from the UK, I took my wife to Vic Falls and Kariba on Viscounts, by which time they were in Air Rhodesia colours. A few years later, I awoke to hear Mr Nkomo laughing on the BBC Today programme when called to account for the actions of his ZIPRA forces in shooting one down (by SAM) on a scheduled flight from Kariba, and the massacre of survivors. Prior to "9/11", I cannot remember being as sickened by any atrocity involving aviation.

Chris

Loki

I have no knowledge of the Viscount electrical system, but in general any regulator supplying something like the radio would regulate better when a generator rather than the battery is supplying the bus in question. So you might get a fair ripple voltage at the inverter frequency when running off battery, but as the regulator's input voltage increases when the generator is running the line regulation (output voltage change for a given input voltage change) improves enormously once the input is above the drop out voltage limit. I'm assuming here 28V DC on generators as opposed to 24V from the battery, or similar if running of different supplies.

Anyone who really knows can contradict me if I'm wrong, 1940s electronics is a bit before my time but the same general principles apply.