Slingsby T53B
 

Have been following some comments about early experiences with Slingsby T53B. I've got a T53B N1664 S/N 1688 which flys regularly. Find it a good performer, pleasant and undeserving of the slings and arrows. Welcom any and all comments, photos, stories, experiences and references anyone can provide.

Tom Holland
Serendipity Soaring
Baker Cuity, OR USA

I have to admit that I only flew the T-53B (XV951) once in 1971. It was a long time ago and I remember not a lot about it except that I wrote in my log book "dreadful aircraft".

It certainly was not a success and the rest of the military order (XV952-990) was cancelled. I don't remember anyone else lining up to buy them either.

One friend, who had a lot to do with testing the thing and who was one of the very few really natural pilots that I ever met in my long aviation career described it as being the most expensive method known to man for raising a decent canopy above the ground.

Mind you, if you are used to 10 knot wave conditions then it is probably fine.

I think you are being rather unkind, JW411. Possibly the ATC demo one was not typical of the few civilian ones. Terrible compared to the Cadet Mk III it was intended to replace? We operated an instrumented one for Met research at Reading University 1969-71. It was used more for developing the instruments and software than data gathering (the instruments then did several years serious research on a Slingsby T61 until the Research Coucil ran out of money the last time Labour drove the economy into the ground).

My logbook shows around 50hrs with a longest sortie of 3 hrs. Initially the 'bonk' noise the wings made as you pulled into a thermal was amusing but soon faded into background noise. The way the aerotow rope jumped from one side of the nosewheel to the other with the compromise hook and no nosehook. I wondered why the stick was about 50% longer than necessary for comfortable stick forces. Good view from both seats, and plenty of room for comfort. It seemed to perform better than the looks would initially indicate.

I agree with you Fitter2, it certainly wasn't the nicest handling glider I have flown but it wasn't the dog that some make it out to be.

I once flew one in a formation display at an airshow as number two; the leader was in a Bocian. I think from memory the book numbers showed that the T53 had an edge in glide ratio and sink rate, but our two were virtually identical.

I had forgotten about the "bonk" noise. :)

Like JW411 I flew '951 for a couple of trips with Duggie King in the back seat. My main recollection was when turning, the slightest amount of aileron caused massive adverse yaw which required a bootfull of rudder. Eventually of course you learnt to 'lead' with rudder, but I accept this was an evaluation aircraft for Air Cadets and not necessarily representative of production T53s built for the civil market.
By the way, the story at the time was that HQAC really wanted to buy a batch of Blaniks which were readily available, but the Whitehall mandarins wouldn't fork out for aircraft built in communist countries so Slingsbys were asked to produce a 'copy' ie all metal with swept forward wings.

Fitter 21:

"I think you are being rather unkind".

Not really; I did say that I had only flown XV951 once and that I remembered little about it except that I had written in my log book "dreadful aircraft".

I never ever had anything to do with the Air Cadet movement (apart from getting my "A" and "B" in 1957 with the ATC) but I was afforded the opportunity to fly XV951 in my capacity as CFI of an RAFGSA gliding club. (I was also a long standing training captain in Mrs Windsor's 4-engined transport fleet at the time).

I suppose I was comparing it with the ASK13 and the SZD Bocian (which I loved - particularly for aerobatics). (I never really had a great love for the Blanik).

"Terrible compared to the T-31 that it was supposed to replace"

Now that cannot be a serious comment. I remember Chris Wills (son of Phillip Wills - the great grand father of British gliding) saying to me in the gliding club bar one night in the 1960s:

"The T-31 is not a glider old boy; it is a device" - how very true.

chevvron:

"Adverse yaw"; now that has jangled a bell with me. The controls were not at all well harmonised and you are right, XV951 suffered badly from adverse yaw.

I also remember the clanking from the wings.

tholland53:

None of the above really matters. If YOU are happy with your bit of kit then be happy with your bit of kit. In fairness, you did ask for comments so you must accept what comes next be it good or be it bad.

My good friend DSB who invited me to fly XV951 was an extraordinary flyer of extremely modest proportions. For example, he was on 111 Sqn when they used to loop no less than 22 Hawker Hunters in very close formation, he flew Lightnings, he was the UK glider aerobatic champion and finished up as an L1011 captain. There was not much that DSB did not know about flying machines.

It was he that made the "expensive canopy" comment.

I have already told the story on another thread of the day that Slingsbys arrived at Sutton Bank (a hill site not far from their factory at Kirkbymoorside) with the first T-53 in a trailer. They started rigging it, and, to my and everyone else's astonishment, mounted the tailplane before they had even put a single wing on.

You have already worked out what happened next!

They dropped the fuselage with the tailplane attached with expensive results and that was the end of that for the day. Off they went back to the factory.

Come to think of it, perhaps that is why it suffered so badly from adverse yaw?

How many T-53s were actually completed?

17 completed, of which 15 were T53B (1 protype T53A and 1 T53C)

4 under construction were detroyed by fire.

Yorkshire Sailplanes built at least 1 YS-53, with extended fin & rudder.

JW411 - would DSB have been Dougie Bridson? (I think OPSEC no longer applies to this). The most 'intrepid' pilot I had the pleasure to fly with. Quote 'It was a relief to go solo - my instructors seemed determined to stop me killing myself'.

Fitter2:

Having recently been banned for a week from pprune for apparently "outing somebody" (who had already outed themselves) I dare not confirm your suspicions or I shall be banned for ever more.

However, DSB knew more about flying aeroplanes with finesse and flair than you and I will ever learn.

He owned the prototype Skylark 2 (especially beefed up for aeros). He never ever landed out in it and frequently appeared going past the gliding club bar, along the taxiway upside down at not a lot of feet, about one hour after we had closed the hangar doors and he would then set about doing a wonderful display having been gone for most of the day.

His aerobatic displays in the Bocian were beyond belief. I can remember him coming on after the noise and the razzamatazz of 4 Lightnings at a Battle of Britain display.

Despite the total lack of noise and razzamatazz of DSB in the Bocian, he got a standing ovation from around 25,000 spectators. His perfect square loops were a wonder to behold (not easy without an engine).

DSB was beyond the normal categories of "Above the Average", "Exceptional" etc. etc. He was one of that rare breed called "Natural Pilots". Whatever aeroplane he happened to be flying, he put it on like a "ratting jacket" (for our colonial friends, that means that he wore whatever machine he happened to be flying as if he had been born in it).

P.S. I quite enjoyed my week of being banned from pprune and so did my local landlord. My sex life improved also!

Yes, that's DSB. Square loops in the prototype Dart 15 at the South Cerney World Gliding Championships in 1965. As he disappeared at the closing ceremony display between the hangars (to land on the sport's field out of sight) Andy Gough was on top of the offices behind the hangar with a pile of scrap boxes to push over for a sound effect. Unfortunately at the critical moment a passer by stood underneath to ask what he was doing.

DSB had a splendid air-to-air photo of his Skylark 2 inverted with Cranditz in the background in his quarters loo.

I watched him from on top of an air raid shelter at MiddletonStGeorge passing by below in the Blue Diamonds solo Hunter.

I endorse your opinion above.

Sorry for the thread creep. Incidentally, the YS-53 prototype was modified from the first production T53B (previously XV451).

Hi Tom
Have you got any photos of your beast ??
I had a half share in the YS53 back in the mid 90's !
I thought she was very pleasant to fly ,the added fin/rudder area probably helped.The wings were ridiculously over engineered LOL,from memory there was a rib every 9 inches...ooh my aching back !!
My syndicate partner always said we should remove half the wing ribs - I did not disagree but thought that the BGA might complain LOL.
She had been flipped over in the gales of 1987 so had been modified with a K13 ish canopy
sorry about the poor quality pics,I dont have any better ones.

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ker/YS53-1.jpg

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...r/YS5314-1.jpg

T53
 

You can see a short film promoting Air Cadet Gliding showing pictures of the T53, and the aircraft it was "designed" to replace on YouTube here.

Those were the days! Enjoy.

Just been doing some memories in me old log book,we had a fun flight in sep 95 (my synd partner + me) of 3h 40m,my last 2 flights in sep96 were 2h 16m and 3h 17m,so easily soarable even in britain.
Istr that because she was a heavy old girl - you didnt want to get slow on finals because she would 'mush' at the flare if you let the speed get slow.
She glid quite well at fairly high speed but back in the circuit the airbrakes were pathetic (mounted way too far back on the chord) and one got used to 'discussions' about low approaches LOL.
But as to general flying she was pretty good,I dont recall any unusual adverse yaw etc - very comfy cockpit - great vis !!
As fitter 2 said - I could never figure why the stick was so large either ??
We used to leave her rigged from march to october,the effing wings were just too heavy for regular derigging,a Hawk canopy cover 'borrowed' from work covered the whole fuselage from nose to base of fin L/E.

Found this pic of the YS53 - copyright Martin Pole,looks like she still has same paint but with some added lines etc.
Shows to advantage...loads of headroom with the K13 type canopy,but not as sleek as the original !
I believe taken at Haddenham

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ker/ys53-3.jpg

When I first saw pictures of the T53 in Flight, I remember being very impressed with the visibility from the rear cockpit, but not with the non-tapered wings. What were Slingsby thinking of? I presume the cheapest possible manufacturing costs.

I see from the pdf attached to this page - http://www.apss.org.uk/projects/APSS_projects/T53/history/index.html - that they put servo-tabs on the T53C to help with the aileron stick forces. Servo-tabs on a glider? :rolleyes:

Same with the Skylark 3b...I flew a 3b fairly extensively in zimbabwe ,this a/c had original ailerons without tabs...result the ailerons were pretty ineffective.- istr that the 3f had aileron tabs fitted (also larger ailerons ?) to make roll control easier,i believe many 3b's were modified to have tabs retrospectively.
I know people tend to call them servo tabs but of course they are good old fashioned balance tabs,a true servo tab is directly connected to the wheel on large a/c.

Just had a quick look in the sailplane directory to compare the T53/Blanik !

T53b empty wt = 354kg/780lb
Blanket L13 empty wt = 292kg/644lb
I would guess much of the wt difference was in the wing design,big shame and missed opportunity there for slingsby,i think if they could have reduced the empty weight then it could have had sales potential esp usa/australia.
The T53 fuselage design (my opinion LOL) was much superior to the blanik,lets face it - for a fairly tall person the blanik rear seat was not a comfy place to be !!
As to the wing shape,slingsby did a fair bit of research/liason with american manufacturers...the T53 looks pretty much like a 'Hershey bar' type -built for ease of manufacture rather than form.

edit...could not get these links to work earlier,but ok now

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...crcNauDK6JZoBQ

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...9HAnSo11vQVOsQ

great cutaway showing why the wing was so heavy (how many ribs ? LOL) and why the airbrakes were so ineffective.
I loved the comment about the airbrakes being as good as a skylark !!...yeah right !! more in the standard libelle class I would say.

LR,
That makes much more sense, but still, having to put tabs on a glider's ailerons indicates a pretty serious basic design flaw.

Reading the Flight article you posted, it looks like Slingsby were influenced too much by the HP-14 design. The Blanik's ailerons are much larger and the forces quite reasonable.

I was amazed to see the empty weight - 150lb more than a Blanik - and the correspondingly higher minimum sink speed - 48 kts compared to 39 kts. Also, the wing loading is 23% higher!

Politics aside, Slingsby and the ATC would have been much better served by license-built Blaniks. There are many L-13s still providing basic training all over the US and Canada.

Hi IFT
I think many of us involved in ATC gliding at that time would have been extremely happy to get K13's !!what a fantastic all rounder that is - much superior to the blanket in my view.

I've never flown a K13 but I have often heard complimentary things about it. I was offering the Blanik as an alternative all-metal aircraft

I have a few instructional hours in Bergfalkes and 2-33s, but quite a lot of time in the backseats of the Lark and the Blanik. The Blanik has the worst backseat view of the lot, but you get used to anything after a while. Just make sure the towplane's wings are sticking out of the student's ears. :)

Hmmm yes Istr that the Bergie seat wasnt all that comfy either LOL.
The K13 really was (almost) a 2 seat K8,and still a very widely used club 2 seater over here.
The blanik was strange because the front seat was like sitting in a tin armchair (very comfy) but the back seat was cramped and uncomfy.
Some of the students in zimbabwe had trouble converting from the Blanik to the Slingsby Swallow,one minute in a tin armchair - the next ...in a little wooden thing with (seemingly) no nose,a few just could not cope with the change,but the 2 seaters were too valuable to risk on early solos.
Much easier to use the german system of Ka7 or K13 and then into a Ka8 where you felt quite at home.

rgds baz

T53B pictures
 

Notice you are online now..
I've had a heck of a time getting pics posted- Happy to send e-mails til I can get the ^*&^@@ website updated and able to post photos-

e-mail me at [email protected]- maybe you can post photos I can send.

Tom Holland

A few T53B changes
 

The "bonking" noises are what I call "character".. Enjoy having those groans and oil-canning. Kind of nice to have the glider talking. We also hear "mooing" from the bakelite guide blocks on elevator push-pull tube in the aft fuselage.

Mine has a nose hook as well as CG hook so there's no rope cutting on takeoff aerotow.

Tom

Hi Tom
I always thought the Blanik was worse for 'oilcanning' noises but yes I agree that it is the aircraft 'talking' to you,I would be happy to post a couple of pics for you - I usually use photobucket because its easier and you get a bigger image.
Will email you now

rgds baz

email sent tom,wish I had known about you back in 2003,I drove within about 50 miles of where you are...

rgds baz

Here are some pics sent by Tom...

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...0us/T53us4.jpg

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...0us/T53us3.jpg

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...0us/T53us2.jpg

Pix etc
 

Thanx for the offer. Maybe others would like to see the old girl still flying.

The pix show the terrible replacement canopy that the previous owner installed- I'm in the process (yes, expensive canopy is the right term) of drape molding replacement near original one piece compound curved front canopy. Should have it installed this week. I'm absolutely certain that pesky yaw string will stay centered with my "improved" canopy. My control stick is of normal length. Some adverse yaw but not unmanageable. No aileron tabs are installed. I wonder what the difference is on mine vs the stories I'm reading from the early days. Control forces are quite normal for this heavy glider. BTW mine stays rigged year round! Those wings are BUILT!

Tom

Yes Tom those wings are BUILT,if you click on the first of my 2 links on an earlier post there is a cutaway drawing of the wing structure,reminded me of why we left ours rigged all 'summer',they look like they were built by John Browns shipyard on the Clyde !
edit...yes I saw a pic of your a/c some years ago,i remember the odd canopy - she will look really nice with a new canopy.

Here is a link to the APSS website who have a T53 C at Portmoak in scotland,I found this beautiful picture taken by Wallace Shackleton (copyright) at Portmoak

edit ...oops forgot link...actually IFT has already linked to it but there are some more pics on the website

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...twSs361e_9NjKQ


http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...moker/T534.jpg

I found another lovely Wallace Shackleton (copyright) picture taken at Portmoak


http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...moker/T535.jpg

Hi Tom
I found this pic of the YS53 just after we bought her...talking canopy stuff...this a/c had been flipped over in the big gales in 1987,the main canopy had been replaced by a K13esque affair,but as you can see the rear canopy had been replaced by a plywood cover with 3 portholes.Over the winter I cut away the front half of ply and replaced it with 3mm acrylic sheet,you can see that in the other pic i posted earlier,the remaining ply was still silver primer at that time,my syndicate partner was impressed by the vis improvement :ok:

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...20us/YS531.jpg

Slingsby T53
 

My memory of this machine is based on having some aerotows in it at Swanton.At the time i was still a staff cadet with a P2 or C cat, and may well have been there for an upgrade.
Up to that time i had only flown the MK3 T21 Prefect and Swallow.
The briefing consisted of making sure the canopy was locked,and this was to be my first a/tow.
I therefore could only compare it with what the ATC were operating at the time.
These flights were to be "my handling" for my appreciation, as the upgrade flights in the Fretwork Fighters would be the normal "hands off".
I do not recall any really negative points from t/off to landing including stall/spin and any a/drag was easily compensated and although some changes in operations would be needed i looked forward to seeing it replace the MK3 at least.Also not having to "dress up" for the cold would be nice.I agree that we did not "push the envelope" with these flights but it should be remembered what it was replacing.Any "fine tuning" would have taken place in the normal course of ATC service and it certainly would have made a good interim machine before the glass ships arrived.It also would have been far better for "Air Experience" work as the schools were being tasked for more of that.
Ok not a Blanik,but in the end we got nothing and the Fretwork Fighters soldiered on for nearly ever. (boring everyone to death)

Pobjoy (Dart 15 amongst other toys) (yes i know it does not do the "weak thermal" thing like a K6E, but it has crisp handling,and is fun to fly) (and its British)

Hi Pobjoy
Nice to get some more input,I think some of the problems with the T53 for the ATC were also that the normal winches and cables struggled with the weight of the a/c - and also I believe (bearing in mind how many years have passed) that it was flown (at Halton ?) the whole length of the runway with the airbrakes fully open ( they were that bad !!).
As I said previously - I think if they had managed to redesign the wing and reduce the weight then the ATC might have got them ,but I think they genuinely worried about letting 16 yr olds loose on them.
When we bought ours -my partner had asked me about the a/c characteristics...I just said ''they are heavy with cr@p airbrakes'' but he was told by the previous owner that the brakes were ''as good as a K13''...anyway he did his first approach 'K13 style' and actually had to 'go around' and try again 'libelle style'...I did not resist saying ITYS !!

T53
 

I refer the honorable gentleman to my earlier post...........

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...e-glass-9.html

Arc :}

T53
 

Whilst it is easy to find fault with what in effect was a prototype (possible replacement trainer) for the Air Cadets i have to say that there was no lack of interest in the staff instructors (or cadets) at Swanton to fly it on a regular basis.I believe that the final "nail" was when it went to Boscombe for evaluation,and was "frowned upon" due to stall recovery in certain "trim" conditions.It should also be remembered that at that time a cadet could go solo after 19 launches + 2 (check rides) and on a continous course (Centre and Schools) would do so on a regular basis.
They did so in a machine that was an upgrade from the "single seat" tutor.
At about the same time the RAF was doing (all jet) training and therefore the introduction of a basic glider that had a better performance and looked to be slightly modern was not such a bad idea.Apart from anything else it would have been able to give "AE trips" on windy days when the barges had to stay indoors.Poor old Slingsbys had relied on the ATC for so long they had never needed to "look to the future" and the sport (and the manufacturers) in the UK were never supported (subsidised) to enable a competitive industry to expand.Given time Slingsbys would have caught up and no doubt produced a satisfactory product,but with a workforce used to chisels and glue it was not going to happen overnight. So the ATC eventually went from an all British equipped system to not even able to produce the Winch.(at least the Landrovers survive).
In fact the system worked well as with such basic machines it meant that very few people did not go solo, plus also having a huge amount of fun at the same time.Even roaring around in Landrovers on retrieves was a big improvement on parades back in the Squadrons. So RIP T53 you tried to bring us up to date and at least sowed the seeds for the future (no shame in that)

Pobjoy

I think you have made a load of valid points there. Sad about the T53 but as you say, maybe it sowed the seeds for the future.

Arc

T53 RIP
 

Just before we put this one to bed a little thread creep is called for.
When you look at a picture of a T53 in its original "civvy" scheme and a proper canopy against a Mk3 (the defence rests its case m'lud)
As for "handling" well, is someone going to suggest that a MK3 had pleasant "fingertip" control, so no contest there.
With adjustments in both instructor and cadet training it would have been quite safe to take over the MK3 role.
We then would have avoided the FARCE of the "intercom" mod and the waste of huge sums of money on a useless piece of kit (and headsets) that cost more than the aircraft they were fitted to.
The Wild winch was more than capable of being "upgraded" as the basic structure and "winch gear" would have taken an increase in power with ease.
The usual "in service" use would have bought out ongoing modifications that would then be incoporated into new machines.
The ATC would have then provided the civvy clubs with a flow of members that had been trained on similar types.
The British glider industry would have had a chance to improve their capability and provide an "in house" product suitable for the clubs.
I suspect the flying hours in the winter would have increased.
The MK3's could have been raffled off to misty eyed luddites that loved them so much and kept on the schools for old times sake.(having gone back to a proper training command "silver & yellow scheme" )
We could have then settled down to a proper all weather operation with some soaring, the odd loop and even some "mini" cross countries, sounds ok to me
Regards
Pobjoy (very slightly TIC)

I havent got time for a long post this morning,but just thought I would add on the handling front that certainly the YS53/later T53 had pleasant handling characteristics,much better in my view than the Twin Astir we had at one of my clubs.
Personally I do not think the T53 would have been a very good glider to take over the Mk3 role...the K13 would have been ideal,being easy and safe to fly and with good vis from the rear seat and also would have fitted in ok with the standard launching gear then in service.
But I agree the 53 would have been good for the AEF role.
rgds LR

Definately K13 every time - but then I'm biased as Longer Ron knows............

T53 is the only glider I've derigged with a copper hammer !!!! :eek:

Mind you we had fun in the T21 at Kenely didn't we Baz :ok:

Arc

Yes open cockpit gliders are fun Stu (on a warm day LOL),shame I didnt visit Kenley more often !
Only ever did a couple of thermal rides in my ATC days,but I wasnt doing the flying ...I was out of gliding 1972-83 and even when I restarted ...I struggled to master the 'art' of thermalling,then one day it just clicked and after that it was easy ...funny old world innit !!

I ws sure I had some old T53 pics, but the only one I could find was in the family photos.

http://i49.tinypic.com/ncav7c.jpg

Time moves on - the dark haired 'instructor' is now the father of my 4 year old granddaughter, and the fair haired 'pupil' is one of the British Team at this year's World Gliding Championships.