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BMA Viscount & DC9 aircraft
Is there anyone out there who can help solve a query or two re; Viscount and DC9 aircraft and operations. In particular:-
BMA Viscount operations from Bournemouth Hurn in 1972 (following Channel Airways demise) and early DC9 series 10/15 operations in the late 1970's? I can forward the specifics by PM if anyone has memories that long! Thanks airsmiles |
I have access to ABC Schedules guides going bacK that far but you would have to be specific, they are *very* deeply buried in the archives.
If non-sked then sorry, can't help. |
BMA VC8 and DC9-15
i was duty traffic officer at LHR in ops for BMA 1977-1985
i cannot help you re VC8 ops 1972 although i lived near SEN and channel airways was my local airline but i dont know what happened to them at BOH re BMA picking up their flights... re BMA DC9's -15's when i joined we were just getting the the leased Finnair a/c still with its finnish regn op'g LPL-LHR OY-LYB and our own N reg a/c then became G-BFIH/G-BMAA a/c op'g LHR-MME we had about 9 viscounts operating LHR-LBA IOM MME EMA BHX LPL Friday nights was all viscounts at LHR as the DC-9's went off to op the Jerseys because at weekends in the summer the DC-9's op'd out of EMA and LTN and almost everywhere else we went from to Jersey ! (along with alot of the viscounts too, so Jersey was a major player) with the DC-9 we also did MME-PMI on friday nights and RMI too, sometimes we did LPL-Tarbes, LPL-ALC,PMI,GRO and some other charter places too. we did LHR-PMI occasionally with the DC9.(charter) we also with the viscount did LPL-PMI, BHX-MAH in the summer on night charter flights. a 5 hour trundle through the night lol 6 x DC9 -15's were op'g during my time eventually, G-BMAA/B/C G/H/I 85 then 90 pax seats 2 x DC 9-32 came in too before i left G-BMAK/M 105 seats i think i think thats all i can remember, sometimes when british rail went on strike we used the 707's as well on domestic flights. and they dropped into LHR on fog diversions on early mornings if EMA,MAN or BHX was closed...all holiday charters. all sun tanned punters and the cabin smelled of ambre solaire ! GLA/EDI and BFS came later on whilst i was there. all DC9 services. although the viscount went to BFS sometimes. Photos: Douglas DC-9-15 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-262529.html viscounts in my time were G AZNA/B/C G AZLP/R/S/T (T BECAME G BMAT AFTER LBA ACCIDENT) G AYOX G BFLH was youngest viscount ever flying G BAPF/G |
i forgot to mention that of the pilots were aces and friends
tony belcher kevin hunt ian gilmore pat cunningham nas tatalias helmut popp ian smallwood and many many more nice people wot fun days they were;) |
David Hollingworth
Joe le Page G-BMAA ex KLM |
oh yes those too as well
the names keep coming lol Photos: Douglas DC-9-15 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net |
Thanks rog747 in particular.
Re; the baby DC9's, a friend and I both saw G-BGWP at LHR on separate dates in August 1979. This was ex- OH-LYB, but according to Air Britain the UK registration was allocated but not taken up (in 1979 anyway). It subsequently carried on operating as OH-LYB for a while longer. However, we both know we saw it at LHR as G-BGWP. I wondered if anyone could clear up that long running mystery. As for the Hurn Viscounts, I have a copy of BG Cramps excellent book which gives some detail of the 1972 operation, but was subsequently passed over to Dan-Air sometime later in 1972. I wondered if anyone had more detailed information of schedules, dates of operations and aircraft used. The latter is partly because my first ever flight was on a BMA Viscount [Hurn-Jersey 2.4.1972 and returning Jersey-Hurn 9.4.1972. To complete my flying log I was hoping to fill in the specific aircraft flown. This could been the time the ex-South African viscounts were being introduced into service. airsmiles |
Dc-9 G Bgwp ?
oh lord
i don't remember G-BGWP at all, i am sure it was never used but i am foggy on that one. i sort of now remember something but i cant help you more. i dont think the reg'n was ever used on OY-LYB but you state you saw it...? perhaps it was applied but we were still using 'YB' aug 1979 i may have been on holiday...lol 1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash ! btw in the mid 70's before i joined, the BMA viscounts operated the LHR to NQY and LHR-Strasbourg routes. also LGW-BFS was ongoing in my time op'd by viscount. re the Bournemouth ops try posting in the Bournemouth pprune post. |
G-BGWP was a MBB-105 helicopter.
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Great list of names there, rog747! Real characters indeed.
The -32s were 110Y IIRC, and we used to fill them on the 331. r |
dc 9 32
ah ok thanks
i knew they messed around with 85/90 then 85 again on the dc9 rocket |
Definitely saw G-BGWP land in 27R at LHR and there was another sighting by another at LHR about the same time. I can't explain it, and I agree the registration was officially applied to the Bo105 helicopter, but Air Britain agree it was originally intended for the BMA DC-9. If only digital cameras were around then!
I'm involved with the Bournemouth scene so have pretty much exhausted that source I think. airsmiles |
G-BGWP DC-9 15 nee OY-LYB/G-BMAH
i also found a Douglas c/n and fleet list too with (g-bgwp) in brackets as being allocated to YB's c/n and history,
then it became G-BMAH eventually. so yes i think it was maybe applied to the a/c in paint but very quickly un-allocated, as far as i can tell from memory we never called the a/c 'WP' at any time, Photos: Douglas DC-9-14 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net shown in 9/79 |
HELMUT POPP !!!
What a legend ! It was always a joy to do his loadsheets. True gent. Although I remember the nasty incident in BRU, I think, when he fell out of the service door and broke his arm. Used to see him walking his dogs up and down Park Lane towards the Hall. Other names for you. Geoff Goodchild, Rod Brears, Tony Blades, Chas Anderson (although he was on the ATP....) Remember Roger Markwick, LHR skipper. Could be fierce, but a cuppa aways sorted that out ! Seeing a mixture of 9's on the EMA ramp on a saturday afternoon, all heading off to JER was a guarantee of a very sweaty load controller, cos the ramp car was ALWAYS in MT getting fixed ! Happy happy days ! |
Capt Popp was unmistakable on the R/T.
I once cadged a jump seat ride with him. After a sporting departure off 05 at MME, (with a left turn that seem to take us almost directly over the rail halt), he proceeded to talk to me about mutual friends all the way to just before the MCT, allowing the young F/O to sweat away with everything. He then turned to the panel, and said "now, where are we...?" :-) Ramp cars? My dad, stalwart of MT at Castle Don. until 1984, did miracles with bits and bobs of engines and bodies, as the management were too tight to spend any money. Scrapheap challenge. The pump-out bowser in the hangar belonged in a museum, The ramp at EMA was positively humming in the summer. I had a summer job on traffic, and once had the dubious pleasure of leading passengers off an inbound 707 from way over on the northern edge stands, halting an inbound F27. 211 sauntering "bucket and spaders" stopped everything for ten minutes. No nose-in parking or coaches in 1982. Happy days indeed. The place is unrecognisable now, and infested with lo-co riff-raff, hen parties sloshed at 0630, carrying inflatable male bits, etc. |
rog747
The 'youngest ever Viscount flying' to which you refer was G-BFZL, not G-BFLH, which was a PA-34! Had 2 spells flying her and her sisters out of LPL, then EMA/LBA. Nice old machine. |
good ol helmutt !
tony belcher was superb at whizzing down the Bravo cul-de-sac T1 LHR, in the DC9, turned the engines off and just coasted into B2 or B4 maybe he did leave one on... lol;)...would be frowned upon now i suppose happy days! ian smallwood did jump seat with him friday night EMA-PMI flying time 1 hr 35 mins ! (wheels off/on time.) |
rog747
The 'youngest ever Viscount flying' to which you refer was G-BFZL, not G-BFLH, which was a PA-34! Had 2 spells flying her and her sisters out of LPL, then EMA/LBA. Nice old machine. YES!!! you are quite right !! i was thinking purely from memory, i knew there was L and F in it LOL!!! yes she was nice thing, had a quirky rear door arrangement too |
The ex-Finnair DC9's AH/AI were -14's. They were two of the first built DC9's originally with Air Canada. The remainder AA/AB/AC/AG and N48075, leased for 7 months in 1978 from Southern, were -15's.
AA operated with registration N65358, from August 76 to April 78, before being British registered as G-BFIH. OH-LYD (-14) was leased from Finnair for four months in 1983. |
Excellent photo of OH-LYB landing. About time BMI (as they are now) did the decent thing and brought out an A320 retroject scheme in 1970's livery.
If anyone's still with BMI please suggest it! airsmiles |
I see I went in OH-LYB (BMA colours but Finnish reg) in May 1978 on a midday flight Heathrow-Teesside. Several of the Finnair-registered small DC9s came back and forward over the years. According to another source LYB lasted with BMA from September 77 to December 79, then it went back to Finnair, then returned later to BMA "properly" in 1983 as G-BMAH.
The DC9-10s were an oddball choice for Finnair, they bought them secondhand to replace Convair piston aircraft on domestic services, and didn't find them well suited, hence all the ones they leased out.
Originally Posted by rog747
1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash !
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bargain 7 viscounts for the price of 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rog747 1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash ! I read at the time that Mike went to South Africa with the funds thought needed to buy ONE Viscount, and ended up with the fleet of seven for the same money... Yes, i think the amount was about £100k for the whole lot (7 a/c plus the sim) so i heard ! the tales of all the ferry flights home over darkest africa would probably make a very good book ! BMA was a true airline with a great history from the late 1930's,(air schools, then Derby aviation in 1949) the pioneering times... |
Regarding Bournemouth, Tony Merton Jones' book provides (as ever) more information. After Channel went under in February 72, BMA temporarily picked up Southend, Stansted and Bournemouth to Jersey. The first operation out of Bournemouth was Friday March 3 with Viscount APNE. This lasted for just 4 months until the permanent licences came into force, when BMA kept Southend and Stansted, but Dan-Air took over Bournemouth from July 1 with 748s.
Although APNE was coming towards the end of its time with BMA (it went off to Israel at the end of the summer) this was indeed the time the seven SAA Viscounts were coming on line so BMA would have had spare capacity. Evidently though they were not enough as BMA bought another seven prop aircraft the next year, four Viscounts from Lufthansa and three Heralds from South America. |
As an aside, I was working for SAA at the time BMA bought the Viscount fleet and there was a story doing the rounds at JNB that BMA pitched up thinking they had only purchased a couple of airframes and an FBS sim to find they had in fact got the whole fleet (plus spares) and the sim!!
No idea whether there was any truth in it but knowing SAR&H at the time, anything was possible. |
Viscounts from Lufthansa
WHBM
The 4 Viscounts that you mention, although originally delivered to LH, were actually purchased from Nora Air Services (NAS) who were based at Kassel-Calden, Germany. I seem to remember seeing one at EMA in NAS scheme. Did NAS also operate Nord Noratlas aircraft, presumably as freighters, or is my memory playing tricks? |
I recal flying in a BMA Viscount G-BAPF on many occasions as a Pax, LHR-LBA-LHR during this 1980's. I was so pleased to be flying in a Viscount, and remember those wonderful windows which were so large and those great Rolls-Royce Tynes purring away!
I never worked for BMA, but for a private jet company at LHR, one of our Captain's left in 1989 to join BMA. His name was Johnny Taylor, I remember well the day he joined BMA as it was the day of the crash on the M1 of the 737-400! Did any of you know Johnny and if so is he still with the airline? Johnny was ex-RAF (I think) and flew for Falcon Jet Centre at LHR on their Falcon 20F (G-BGOP) for a number of years. It would be nice to find out if he is still with the airline or moved on, it was 20 years I go, so he may have even retired! PS I also flew in the DC-9-32's as well, this time to MME, great old aircraft! |
Midland331: The place is unrecognisable now, and infested with lo-co riff-raff, hen parties sloshed at 0630, carrying inflatable male bits, etc. I used to take a weekly commute up to EDI on the lovely fully-serviced F70/F100 service. On several occasions on the return leg on a Friday evening, there was a very likeable and attentive (middle-aged) Steward who on more than one occasion would sit down next to me for a while to discuss the wine list in detail and offer recommendations according to what he had available. Very pleasant and helpful chap. Then EMA turned itself into Chav Central and the fully-serviced schedule was culled in favour of BMI-Baby. I recall seeing this poor chap on the same run, but not in uniform any more - resplendent in jeans and lurid-coloured t-shirt - in amongst the teenie-CC, looking well out of place. I could have cried for him. Discussing the fine points of wine one week, and mopping up puke the next. What a way to go... From my perspective, it could not have been worse either - I went from paying around £100 for the weekly return trip fully-serviced, to around £350 for the completely-unserviced trip because of how we had to purchase our tickets. Oh, the irony. I was very glad in the end to finish that job. Sorry about the slightly off-topic post. |
chav central lol
slightly off topic yes lol,
but i do suggest you read my 2 posts in ''flybe, what a shower'' sums up chav central and what has happened to flying today...sigh regards rog re G-BAPF it was a bummer, always tech lol |
I have the BMA book by BG Cramp, which is very informative. Namely:-
Re: South African viscounts: Mike Bishop was in Israel when he noticed in Flight Magazine the advert for the viscounts. He then went down to S.Africa and was told the fleet was to be sold as a whole and not seperately. He only had board approval to buy 2 viscounts and not 7! Unabashed he decided to offer the same cash amount he had board approval, but for all 7. As we now know, he offer was accepted and the rest is history. Re; the german viscounts. These were never as reliable or corrosion free as the S.African ones and they appear to have less successful overall. There's other gems in the book which is a marvellous story of an enterprising independant british airline. airsmiles PS: Viscounts had Dart engines, not the Tynes which were fitted to the Vanguard. |
LAS1997
Johnny Taylor was, I believe, still flying for bmi ex-LHR. I left baby two months ago and hadn't spoken to him for a while. Lovely guy, always had a smile and was always interested in you. |
Viscount engines
LAS 1977 said the Viscounts had purring Tynes!!
The Tyne never purred, the 14ft 6inc prop made sure of that (Vanguard) I think he had better revise his memory and use Rolls Royce DARTS which were a very different kettle of fish!!! tristar 500 |
rog747
Just seen your post #22. Goodness knows how I missed it (and others referring to it). Senility kicking in tonight maybe? Apologies for repeating same story. |
Originally Posted by airsmiles
(Post 5098797)
Re; the german viscounts. These were never as reliable or corrosion free as the S.African ones and they appear to have less successful overall.
Do they ever de-ice in South Africa ? |
Agreed WHBM. 15 european winters must be a pretty harsh environment for an aircraft compared to what I presume was an arid, consistently warm life in South Africa. May be maintenance with Nora Air Services wasn't so great either though.
airsmiles |
Tri-Star 500, you are quite correct of course, they were RR Darts on the Viscount, the Tyne was on the Vanguard!
Just back from a visit to the Brooklands museum where they have a Viscount 800 G-APIM, managed to go on board and have a look around with my daughter. The cabin still looks so spacious, and sorry to bang on about the windows, but very big! That musty aircraft smell was still present too! The flight deck was quite small, but lets face it 1950's design and technology. How wonderful it would be if they could start a Dart up? This Viscount flew with BEA / Cambrian / BA / BAF before coming to grief in a ground collision with a Shorts 360 in the mid 1980's. |
more names and memories
Believe Johnnie Taylor now working part time and living in Cornwall.
The buy 2 get 5 free Viscount story is correct. As well as the VC8 Simulator and the 7 aircraft was a host of spares including engines, for 105K I think. Some of the aircraft needed resparring before being put back into commercial use. Think it was Tony Smallwood not Ian (?). Jim Shaw, Jim Snee and Hard Ronnie are names that come to mind. "Keep attacking son!" The very best of flying and of people it was too. |
yes it was tony smallwood i think, not ian, you are correct!
there was an Ian 'someone' too cant think now lol barnie concannon norman brewitt was another, geoff goodchild yes i remember him, tall chap, very kind i suppose Tony Belcher was the squadron leader LOL:} another lovely chap (tall, balding) flew viscounts took me down to Palma in the middle of the night from LPL one summer for my hols, c1979/80 flying time was about 4+ hours, maybe nearly 5, and he took his dinner down the back in the passenger seats. cant think of his name, a/c had about 40 pax on (held 73) oh those were the days |
There is a new book out "bmi the story: celebrating 70 years in the business of aviation."
bmi the story: |
love the post and any dc9, nostalgia always remember, a late sector into /LHR on a nasty winter Sunday as helmets,f/o,a conversation,about ,the sun news paper, leading ,on to how to spend the night leading,to the most bizarre about the stars and the after life, and many things to sensitive to mention here,even after 25 or so, years:oh:,but all those,characters were just that;,as for.engine off taxing,one of them did hit the peer.and one flew a sector in a crash helmet,because the window was cracked,to make a statement to the engineers,with out a thought for depressurisation,irreplaceable times,many names and stories,,TONY SMALLWOOD,i believe is correct,there was a IAN GRAHAM
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yes it was ian graham who flew viscounts and took me to palma one night !
thanks for that!!! |
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