Handley Page Hermes IV
 

In the 1950's I worked at Lockheed Air Service at New York's then KIDL (now KJFK). We handled a lot of "nonskeds", etc plus scheduled foreign and domestic carriers. Rarest bird I ever worked was a Hermes IV. Came in with a replacement merchant ship crew for a ship in NY harbor.

Rode on the taxi over from old IAB terminal to Hangar 7 and noted that air brakes require some engine revs to maintain pressure. Got to uncowl one engine and replace some spark plugs which to my American eyes were strangely located in the top of the cylinder heads. I know that was due to the Bristol Hercules sleeve valve design. Also the aft of the cabin was empty of seats as I was told the Hermes was a rework of the H.P. Hastings which was a tail dragger. This apparently made the Hermes rather tail heavy, hence plenty of room for the biggest and most luxurious lavatories in the aft end but no seats in the cabin for at least last ten feet. Flight engineer's panel had a lot of very large diameter gauges.

Does anyone know who the operator of the aircraft was? I lost my notebook where I logged the odd ones we worked. Airwork seems to be in my head as the airline. Even better, anyone know the registration of the aircraft? To my knowledge it was the only Hermes ever to come to New York.

BOAC were the original operator of the Hermes, in the early 1950s. Yes, it was a thoroughly unsatisfactory design and they got rid of them after just a few years. They mainly got used on shorter trips to East/West Africa. The tail-heavy aspect was never overcome and apparently they presented a curious nose-high view air-to-air. Alas the prototype was so unstable in this respect, compounded by a miscalculation of the elevator rigging, that it crashed on the maiden flight, killing among others Jamie Talbot, the Handley Page chief test pilot.

They were never looked on favourably by BOAC and were sold off to UK independents operating mainly long-haul military charters, a major business in the 1950s, to points such as Aden and Singapore. Such independents were not allowed foreign currency to buy US-built aircraft, so it was the Hermes or nothing. Airwork was one of these operators, along with Skyways and Britavia, and later Air Safaris.

Airwork got a licence to operate cargo services from London to New York in 1955 but had no suitable aircraft for regular transatlantic operation, so chartered Transocean DC-4s for the route. It never worked out and they gave it up after a few months. I am surprised they managed a passenger charter because that involved all sorts of further licences, but I wasn't there to see it and you were :)

The various Bristol Siddeley sleeve-valve radials were known for their smoke on startup, when controllers in the tower would joke about "LVPs for the next 10 minutes". The engine manufacturer had a long although abortive relationship with such engines, Armstrong Siddeley luxury cars in the 1930s having the same style of sleeve-valve engine (although not radials of course).

It would be unkind to call the Hermes just a version of the Handley Page Halifax bomber (which my father flew in WW2) with a pressurised fuselage, but that's basically what it was.

The operating period for Airwork's fleet was from February 1952 to late 1959. The fleet comprised seven aircraft G-AKFP, and G-ALDA/B/C/F/G/O. DB and DF were both lost in 1952 within months of introduction, AKFP was a replacement, itself lost in 1957, and DG its replacement that year, so there were never more than five at once, and mostly four.

The Wikipedia page on the Hermes is pretty straightforward.

I found this in Propliner 87.
Britavia Hermes G-ALDU operated a passenger charter from Blackbushe to New York on 14Nov1955.

Very good. A little more detective work gives an account of the journey published in Flight magazine at the time

jersey airlines | air france | 1955 | 1698 | Flight Archive

My deepest appreciation to renfrew for digging out the date and information on the charter. The time fits as I was working there then. Interestingly enough, the maintenance people had to taxi the aircraft - apparently the pilots had already left for the hotel leaving the flight engineer who strangely wasn't authorized to taxi the aircraft. So he started the engines for us, did the taxi prep and set the radios and we drove it over. It was during the taxi that he told us to rev the engine a bit as the air compressor wouldn't charge the brakes at low rpm's. Seemed peculiar to me to have to rev the engines to stop!

Anyway, an interesting looking aircraft indeed - at first glance (at night on ramp) it looked like a DC-4. I was always on the lookout for different aircraft or airlines.

One other rare bird I saw (didn't work it though) later at KJFK was a Trident belonging to an Arab airline. It was taxiing on the outer perimeter taxiway and again, I did a double-take thinking it was a B727 and then seeing the offset nose gear and boom in front of the horizontal stabilizer I realized what it was. That was the only Trident I ever saw at KJFK.

Looking through Google I remembered that Bahamas Airways had a few Skyways Hermes for a short time.
I wonder what route they took on delivery?

I am amazed at the depth of knowledge of PPRUN'ers. Thanks for the article WHBM and I am a little proud that I correctly remembered it was a mechant ship crew exchange after so many years. I copied the text of the article below for others information. Didn't know at the time I was taking a small part in such a historic event. ;)

I suspect that any ferry flights to the Bahamas would have staged through Bermuda rather than New York.

TRANSATLANTIC HERMES

One of the six Handley Page Hermes operated by Britavia. Ltd.,

Although a bit before my time I have always thought that the Hermes IV was one of the best looking propliners. Despite being a flawed design it proved a useful aircraft in the end.
I believe Falcon Airways also performed a US charter with one of their Hermes, & as already mentioned Bahamas A/W (Skyways) operated three of the type into Miami.
The engineers panel!
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...-panel-sml.jpg

GAZIN
 

What led you to that opinion ? The Hermes was a real crock in any operators book:ugh: Nice shot of the Spanner's panel though:ok:

Just checked out my bible, "British Independent Airlines since 1946" there is no mention of this flight ! But there is this photo by Micheal Stroud.

Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...0props/ldu.jpg

A six foot plug in the front fuselage, a modified fin and the Hermes could have been quite successful. Despite the complexities of the sleeve valve arrangement the Bristol Hercules radials were the mainstay of the Royal Air Force transport units until the mid sixties. It's successor, the Centaurus, still shows its mettle at the Reno air races. A real nightmare, or how many bits can you get inside an engine block, is the sleeve valved H24 Napier Sabre.

Are any of the Sea Furies being raced with the Centaurus engines? I thought they replaced them with modified R3350's where they use the power section of the turbo compounds less the power recovery turbines. I know an Australian group is trying to resurect a Centaurus to running order and having problems.

Wonder how they got the C.G. so screwed up on the Hermes? Enormous waste of cabin space. One would think that could have been corrected as mentioned with a cabin plug. Douglas certainly stretched the DC-4 fuselage enough through the DC-6 to DC-6A/B and DC-7 to DC-7C as did Lockheed did with the Constellation.

Also, the crash of the prototype Hermes as noted above eerily echos the crash of the prototype Avro Tudor where they crossed the aileron controls and killed the designer along with the crew.

So both of the Brits hopes for a four engined transport to compete with the Connies and DC-6 had crashes of the prototypes. I don't think the Tudor had a hope as a taildragger but the Hermes at least looked promising. The Britannia originally was to be Centaurus powered but went to the Proteus early on but strangely, went back to pistons in its reincarnation as the Argus at Canadair. And then regrew turboprops as the CL-44.

From what I have read the Hermes project was dogged by delays & indecision on the part of BOAC, a critical delay involved the interior layout, particularly the galley, this resulted in the wing position & incidence being less than optimal. Remember also that this was a so called interim airliner based on bomber wings. A pretty big compromise to start with! The engine performance wasn't what was expected either, contributing to a tail down cruise attitude.
There was little or no interest on the part of the various ministry's responsible for aircraft production in accommodating the needs of any airlines other than BOAC & BEA, so no money for further development.
The more I read about this period in British aviation the more amazed I am that our manufacturers managed to build any decent airliners. They seem to have persevered despite intolerable restrictions.
I have been told that Air Safaris put a rear galley in one of their Hermes (G-ALDA) & after the addition of more windows forward of the wings, quite a few extra seats.

The original tail wheel prototype Hermes was still flying in the late sixties.
It visited Ballykelly 1967 ? I believe it was employed by the Radar trials
people at Pershore.

Boeing of course used the wings from its bombers on various of it airliners with considerable success.
The B.314 boats used the wings and cockpit section of the XB-15 but of course upgraded to R-2600 engines.
The Boeing 307 used the wings and empannage from the B-17 and in fact near wars end some of them swapped out the wings with those from the B-17G model. One difference though, the B307 wings were fitted with fixed slots outboard due to the crash of the prototype during a demonstration flight for KLM.
The B377 Stratocruiser used the B-29 wing and engines in the prototype and then upgraded to the B-50 configuration.

Re Sea Furies and Reno, I believe they are all R3350 driven these days, with the exception of "Dreadnaught" which boasts an R4360 nailed to the front.

Tonytech2, you mention an Arabic Trident - Iraqi Airways and Kuwait Airways both operated them in the 1960s - New York seems a long way from home for them though!

Wanna see another Hermes? The fuselage of G-ALDG is preserved at Duxford. I well remember it between the British Caledonian hangars and the A23 at Gatwick in the 1970s, used for Cabin Crew training.

Re Centaurus Sea Furies,No one in Europe since Hoistler Gmbh in Germany,has an interest in maintaining Sleeve Valve Engines.Ricardo in Shoreham did the last RNHF Overhaul,and it cost so much the Engines now go to the States.However,the States as already stated are putting anything from 3350 t0 4800 P&W' s in ,because the remanufacture of the Sleeves is not financially possible.Getchell Ellesworth has looked at it at length.In the 70s when I was heavilly involved with this,I received a midnight knock on the door,to find both Frank Sanders and Getchell standing in the rain,asking to come in.The RTO from Rolls Bristol,Johnny Danes and Buster Paine ,and myself were looking at cobbling one seviceable engine from 3 Time Ex Ex Hoistler ones.They had civilianised the Spec to replace the long Piston with oil control ring below the gudgeon pin,with the Slipper type from the Bristol Hercules,which was identical in bore and port profile.This meant a lot less stress in the rotary gear that operated the sleeve drive,that caused so many failures.They looked at the pistons we had extracted and miked them up,and went off to find a source for Hercules Pistons.The Americans (Lloyd Hamilton),had tried chroming the bores,like P&Ws,but after ground running for hours on end,could not get the engines to bed in,even with cast rings.The Sleeves did not appear to be concentric ,but had a slight polygonal inner surface,like modern semi automatic pistol barrels that have no rifling,and thus are incredibly difficult to remanufacture.The only alternative was to fit a Corncob derivative.Frank and Lloyd were the first to do this,and everyone else followed,except Getchell Ellesworth who has perservered.There is another problem,and that is lubrication.Sleeve Valve engines use a very different spec oil-100U-A heavy detergent oil which allows burnt oil dross to stick to the clearances of the moving parts,and fills its own gaps,without having to have tighter tolerances.Thus the complexity of the moving parts is kept together.If a straight oil is used ,or even a W,this Oil residue is flushed out into the filters and is lost,thus a lot of metal to metal movement occurs ,causing too much wear.Shell has not made this for decades,until a batch ordered from Chris Fear by me,for RNHF in '76 ,coinciding with a RNZAF Order for their Freighters,and RNHF again in 2000.The mod for fitting P&Ws is quite straightforward,but can only use the Hamilton 4 Blade Prop.They have a never ending supply of these,so that is the only way Sea Furies can be maintained.The other Sea Fury problem the the Bag operated Pneumatic brakes-These are the same as Meteors,and no longer exist,apart from M&B at Chalgrove.Thus Lloyd and Frank modified F102 Brakes and Wheels(Same section and diameter),and the rudder pedals to give Hydraulic Brakes and a safe landing.Sorry this is a bit off thread,but Sleeve Valve knowledge is dying out ,so I have tried to explain the problems.Stephen Grey may have the wherewithal to remedy this,as he goes to great lengths to be original.

Happy to hear at least a Hermes fuselage is preserved.
Question though: What is the connection between the H.P. Hastings and the H.P. Hermes. I thought the Hermes was basically a Hastings that grew a nose gear and was civilianized a bit. Was the Hastings pressurized?

Granted its off thread but sleeve valve engine history is getting lost. Thanks so much for a lesson in realities of operational problems.
Back when I was turning Britannias around at KJFK, I talked a bit with the Bristol rep who helped us with the Proteus engines. He had a lot to say about sleeve valved engines. He was not an enthusiast. They certainly were quiet enough and superbly constructed but he had some interesting tales of trying to start some of TransCanada's Bristol Freighters in dead cold of winter up North.

I would love to see some of this sleeve valve info spread to the Aircraft Engine Historical Society. The gearheads there will eat it up. There has been quite a bit of mooning about the superiority of sleeve valves over poppet valves. It would appear there may be some theoretical advantages but practically speaking, Father Time sorted it out and poppet valves persist.
AEHS Home

Regarding the Arab operated Trident I saw - I believe there was a big affair going on at the United nations in New York so it was undoubtably bringing in a delegation. Used to see some Russian airliners in for the same reason.

On my way to school sometime in the mid fifties, I saw a Hermes at Southend Airport that was rather tail high (about 40 degrees), unfortunately, it had buried its nose in the Southend (Victoria) to London (Liverpool Street) railway line after running of the end of the runway. I dont think there were any serious injuries, but the operator's name was soon painted over to cover their embarrassment.

I can't remember the operator or if the line had been electrified by this time, but it would have been very near to the 24kV overhead wires if it was!

This would be G-ALDC, operated by Falcon Airways, which aquaplaned and pitched in at Southend on 9 October 1960, returning on a holiday charter from Barcelona. Several of the Hermes losses, from quite a small fleet, were on landing, I get the impression it was quite a handful.

Going back to the start of this thread, this aircraft had also performed a couple of charters across the Atlantic earlier that 1960 summer, transiting via Keflavik. Not stated what its ultimate destination was, but it seems several Hermes ventured over there through time.

That railway line was electrified in 1956. I come overhead it from time to time myself on the Southend 24 approach; even when right on the PAPIs you still feel quite close to the wires ! There are special guard wires on short poles at the railway fence on both sides of the tracks which, if broken, set the railway signals to red and cut off the power. I presume if the Hermes aquaplaned and ended up against the railway they must have been on 06. I believe its not the only aircraft to have ended up there.

Thanks WHBM,

Yes, I remember now it was Falcon, but it was later than I thought. I agree that their record indicates they were a handful on landing, but in this ones defence, it was very wet at the time and I think that 06 wasn't very well drained, because I can remember seeing a Bristol Freighter doing a bit of train spotting a few years before and a Viscount had a close call too around the time of the Hermes accident. The old grey cells are now recalling that there was talk in the local paper of an earth ramp and a trip wire to cut-off the overhead power, but I think that lessons were learnt about aquaplaning and the runway draining was improved. Althought it would have been interesting to see Ski-Jump type takeoffs!

Tonytech2, the Hermes 1 & the Hastings look very similar, they were essentially the same apart from the windows. The Hastings was not pressurized & I'm fairly sure that the Hermes 1 wasn't either. The Hermes 2 was longer & pressurized but still a tail dragger, it was the Hermes 2 design that was modified into the Hermes 4. The sole Hermes 2 outlived the last operational Hermes 4 by 4 years.

FAStoat that was fascinating & rather worrying info on the Centaurus. I hope they can be kept viable for a few more years, despite the obvious advantages of the US engine conversion the sound of a Centaurus with its five bladed prop is simply to die for.

I started my apprenticeship in 1961 with a now distant airline that had a Bristol Hercules overhaul line which at that time was all for third parties. I spent a lot of time in the various sections comprising the line and deveoped a great deal of respect for the designers. We also had a low rate P&W R2800 overhaul line but I think I preferred the Hercules as a machine. Assembly of the Hercules was very simple and two experienced mechanics and an apprentice churned out an engine to the test cell every 10 working days without raising a sweat. Timing of the sleeve drive gears was a piece of cake. As far as I can recall we never had a serious failure and all engines ran to their overhaul life on wing. By this time Bristol seem to have resolved any sleeve lubrication issues.
In contrast there were some nasty, expensive failures with the R2800's eg. master rod cylinders blowing off, crankshaft failure.
One particular beauty of the Hercules was the elimination of lockwire inside the crankcase. Everything was locked by tabwashers or split pins. In contrast the R2800 used lockwire everywhere and one had to be very careful not to overtwist the wire which fatigued it and could result in an premature engine removal due to "lockwire in the filters". I recall a senior apprentice being very downcast after he had spent 1 or 2 days lockwiring all the valve gear in a front case only to have it all rejected by the inspector for overtwisting (no more than 5 twists per half inch rings a bell).

My father flew various marks of Halifaxes from 1943-1950. Going through his log books it seems that losing an engine was a fairly common occurence. Not that they stopped going but that they would start 'gulping' and would be shut down before they ran out of oil. As a child at Aldergrove I used to watch the daily Bismuth trip come back with one feathered more often than not. He had two go at one time but he managed to drag it back to Shannon from somwhere in the Atlantic and received the AFC.
Fast forwarding to Labuan in 1966 and it was still a problem with Valettas and Hastings. Clutching cans of Tiger with the SEngO revealed that there was no reason for it. Fill it up with oil and it would carry on on for hundreds of hours without doing it again.

The old man was a Flight Engineer on the Hermes for Airwork out of Blackbushe.
Being very young I dont remember much about it all but I do remember he was not too impressed with the engineers position facing rearwards!
I believe it was common to shutdown the wrong (opposite) engine when commanded from the sharp end!

SFD

Here's someone on PPRuNe a few years ago quoting a BOAC staff magazine article about the Hermes. Obviously not the writer's favourite aircraft.

Hermes
 

My father flew Hermes with Airwork from start to finish, he flew some 'hot and high' trials with Hedley Hazeldon who was Handley Pages Chief Test Pilot at the time.(they also served together in 49 and 50 Squadron during the war flying Hampdens). Father always said there was not much wrong with the aircraft, just the pilots who flew them. One of Airworks was put down in the sea off Malta, and one in a French cornfield mainly due to over heated engines. My father was Chief Pilot and Training Captain with Airwork and never had a problem with the Hermes, although he did have to shut down the occasional engine due to over heating. I flew on several trips to EGYPT during the Suez crisis when the Hermes had RAF registrations, they certainly didn't like the sand around Fayid.

That would be a Pprune mate of mine in Australia who goes under the username of Centaurus. He is a bit old now and certainly has "running order problem" to the toilet several times a night :ok:

As Treadigraph says, the only surviving Hermes fuselage is at Duxford. Having admired it for many years from the outside, I now find that public are allowed in it. I was astonished to find that the flight deck was complete, and was delighted to be allowed to sit in the Captain's saeat. Well worth a visit.

Can anyone post a photo of the Hermes as a cabin trainer at Gatwick. Goodness knows how many times I passed it on the A23 but never took a photo of it!

Sorry fauteuil volant, I do not have a photo of her on the A23, but do remember it very well !
I do have photos of her at Duxford as she is now !

Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i.../101207040.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i.../101207038.jpg

Airwork Hermes
 

Hi My Names Geoff Milner.my Mother Was A No I Air Stewarddess On Airwork Vikings And Then On Hermes Aircraft.she Was No1 On Board Hermes G-aldo That Shot Off The Runway At Paya Lebar Airfield On 29th Oct 1957.the Aircraft Ended In A Ditch.the Toilets Broke Open And All The Contents Ran Down The Aisle.my Mother Let Me Copy The Photos Of The Crashed Aircraft.the Aircraft Was Repaired And Flown Back To Blackbushe And Burnt On The Firedump.what A Waste.my Mother Was 83 On 14th Feb 2009.her Maiden Name Was Barbara Hey.she Probably Flew With Your Father.the Captain Was Bill Winsland.my Mother Has Lent Me A Photo With An Airwork Hermes Flt Engineer Called George Piper Taken Down At Ankara,turkey.your Father Would Have Known Him.what Was Your Fathers Name?my Tel No Is Horsham 01403-241238 If You Would Like To Chat.mymother Married My Father Who Was A Pilot Flying Lancs,then Lots Of Other Militaary And Civil Aircraft.speak Soon I Hope....

Hermes Cabin Staff Trainer
 

fauteuil volant:

BUA:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SR...mesBUA_LGW.jpg

Caledonian/BUA:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SR...esCABR_LGW.jpg

British Caledonian:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SR...esBCAL_LGW.jpg

The above are copyright Caz Caswell and are published with his permission.
Freddie Laker 'rescued' the airframe from the fire dump when MD of BUA and it served generations of Cabin Crew as a trainer. Despite being 'in service' as such for most of its life once the takeover occurred and moved to Duxford, misplacing its Fin in the process, it reverted to the original operator scheme:

BOAC at Duxford Minus Fin:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SR...esBOAC_DFD.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SR...esBOAC_DFD.jpg
I am not sure of the copyright on these two.

I know I wrote some extensive notes on this aircraft G-ALDG, but I think it was for a Closed User Group and therefore is not generally available, although as I seem to get into trouble with the Mods when I publish a link to my sites that probably is fortunate,
Opssys
Edit to correct Registration!

Notes on G-ALDG - Hermes Cabin Trainer
 

Found Notes:
The Handley Page HP.81 Hermes 4 which ended up as a Cabin Trainer for 26 years and is currently a Museum Exhibit, was orignally built in 1950 as part of an order for BOAC with constructor number (cn) 08. On completion the Aircraft was registered G-ALDG and was delivered to BOAC on the 9th March 1950, when it was Named: 'Horsa'.
In August 1957 the Aircraft was sold to Airwork, and subsequently sold to Falcon Airways in October 1959.
Almost immediately the Aircraft was passed to Britavia/Silver City, being delivered to the Manston Base during December 1959. The Aircraft was renamed: 'City of Chester'. However the Aircraft's flying career was nearly over and was withfrawn from use (wfu)in September 1962 and was listed as scrapped at Gatwick in October 1962.
Although not the last operational Hermes 4 (G-ALDA lingered on to 1964 and operated the last commercial service in Air Links colours on 13th December 1964 and the last ever Hermes flight when it was ferried to Southend for scapping on the 22nd December 1964), GALDG was the most fortunate and whilst the rest of the type were reduced to produce and then totally scrapped (the last one, G-ALDM being scrapped at Hurn in May 1968 after being wfu for a number of years), the Fuselage was rescued to become a Cabin Services Trainer for British United Airways.
Over the years the Colour schemed Changed in line with the current livery, until 1971 when post the Caledonian takeover of BUA it was painted in the Caledonian-BUA Scheme, which fortunately soon became BCAL.
When the Security fence was built, the Airframe was moved (making photography more difficult).
Post the British Airways takeover the Airframe was moved to Duxford to be part of the British Airways Collection, in the process loosing its vertical tail.
The Aircraft was repainted in its original BOAC Colour scheme, complete with the Name Horsa.

Handley Page Hermes 4 Known Cabin Configurations
BUA/CA-BUA/BCAL : - Unknown - can anyone advise?
Handley Page PR: - 63 Passenger - 7 Crew
BOAC: - 40 Passenger - 5 Crew
Airwork - 68 Rearward Facing Seats (Trooping Requirement)
Bahamas Airways Ltd - 78 Seats
Air Links - 82 Seats

Handley Page Hermes 4 General Specifications
Engines: 4 x 2,100 h.p Bristol Hercules 763.
Span:- 113 feet, - Length:- 96ft. 10in. - Height:- 29ft. 11in. Tare Weight:- 55,350lbs - All-up Weight:- 86,000lbs
Max Speed:- 350mph. Cruise Speed:- 276mph
Ceiling:- 24,500ft. - Range:- 2,000miles
Production: Hermes 4 - 25 Aircraft:

Handley Page Hermes 1,2 and 5 Brief Notes
HP.68 Hermes 1 - Crashed on First Flight the most similar to the HP.64. Hastings - 1 Built
HP.74 Hermes 2 - Development Prototype (Tail Wheel) - 1 Built.
HP.84 Hermes 5 - Turoprop Powered Development and Test Aircraft for MoS - 2 Built
Opssys

Did the Hernes have a pressurised cabin?

Nearest competitor was probably the Dc4 but wonder how the specs compared in terms of speed, ceiling, payload and range.

Yes the Hermes was pressurised, although 4 aircraft flew without it to wards the end of their careers. Handley Page liked to compare it to the DC6, had it received the same level of development it probably could have competed with it. But the Hermes was designated as an interim development, being based on the Halifax wing, therefore I doubt that there was any intension to take it further. The Britannia was going to be Britain's world beating propliner!
It's nice to see some positive recollections of the Hermes on this thread, keep them coming:ok:

Some figures from the Observers book of aircraft 1955 edition;

Cruising speed.
DC4, 246mph. DC6, 313mph. HP81, 266mph.

Weight empty/loaded lbs;
DC4 40,806/73,000. DC6 51,495/97,200. HP81 55,350/86,000

The range is not given in the Observers book, but the absolute max range for the DC6 & HP81 are given as 2,811 & 3,080 respectively, in the book Hastings & Hermes by Victor. F. Bingham.

There has been a myth that UK was required in 1942 by US to exit airliner design, thus putting headwinds on the Brabazon-suite's development. No. Priority in production would be bombers/UK, transports/US, not to inhibit new US bombers, nor Cabinet Committee on Reconstruction Problems from airliners. War Cabinet Minutes W.M.(43).35,25/2/43, SecState for Air, approving Brabazon Committee Types: “We will not accept a solution (to Civil Air Transport) on the basis that we won’t build any a/c and we want authority (to) plan some production”. A US/UK Conference on International Air Transport, 3-7 April,1944 set technical matters which became UN (ICAO) standards; to strengthen UK's stature there, MAP issued ITPs 4/5 April,1944 for Brabazon Interim Type III Empire H.P.88 (Halifax-derived, evolving as Hermes IV) and Avro 687/XX (Lincoln-derived, morphing in Sept.’44 as Avro 688 Tudor I). Commercial issues (to be the Eight Freedoms) were to be addressed in Chicago, Nov.,44. To prepare for that a Ministry of Civil Aviation was formed 8/10/44, to be the sponsor of $ export-earning/import substitution types. Should they have Theseus/Clyde turboprops to dish C-54/C-69 and US' raft of gargantuas like L-89 Constitution? HP and Avro schemed such things, while prototyping their Interims.

What went wrong was this:
1. BOAC finessed "used" L-049, B.377, and part-£ DC-4 (C-4M), and lost any yen for feeble UK Interims;
2. The need for B-29 pressurisation caused (Garrett)AiResearch: all Brabazon Types "leaked" until we sorted this out, structurally, and by Westland licence as Normalair;
3. From late-1946 HP and Avro became distracted from BOAC/BSAAC's Empire business by the prospect of a jet Medium Bomber, won end-1947 by (to be) Victor and Vulcan. Tired Halifax/Lanc retreads took junior priority. Bristol, with zero large structures expertise, was in a field of one for son-of-Type III, Medium Range Empire. BOAC succeeded in dumping Tudor, very nearly ditto on Hermes, and extracted scarce $ for proper equipment, which, they told Ministers, would be self-financing (Bring Over American Currency).

Handley Page Hermes
 

Flew home from Habbannia in a Britavia Hermes Nov 1955. As for memories , saw red hot cylinder heads through the gill openings .
Ice clanking down the side of the fuse as the deicing system worked overtime during the bad weather that tossed us all over the place . At least it was better than the out bound flight in a York, two and a half years previous . Am I right, that one of the letdowns of the Hermes was its incompatability of its electrical system when it came to the general handling, different from most types of that era
Merv

Merv, you are correct about the electrics, the Hermes used 125 volt ac generators, but the world eventually settled on the US favoured 115 volt ac elec. systems. I believe that there were other voltages used for various components that also failed to become industry standard.
I hadn't realised how hot those engines could get, it has been mentioned a couple of times on this thread.

Thanks, opssys, for the images of G-ALDG at Gatwick. They certainly brought back some memories. I chuckled to see the perimeter road as it was. I used regularly to ride along it on my bike. I suspect that I would cause a major police incident if I tried that nowadays. How times change!