I saw the Vulcan flown into Catterick. They closed the A1, lightened the old thing as much as possible, and it had enough fuel to do 2 approaches and get back to Leeming. The chute was streamed over the raod and we lost her in a cloud of tyres/brakes/runway smoke. Despite the place being tight for gliders she was hauled to a stop before she got an early bath in the River Wharfe. .:eek:

Then they threw her on the crash dump:ugh:

No runway smoke. Not on a grass strip. Dust and grass maybe. I think the strip was about 4 500 feet and it was technically feasible to takeoff on as the takeoff run was about 4200 feet. Landing minimum was under 6 000 feet although 6 was the operating rule with a mandatory brakechute stream.

Mandatory that is unless there was a crosswind that prevented a stream. It was extraordinary but we never had in-limits crosswind landings on a 6 000 foot runway on a landaway. Can't think why.

Mind you the skipper streamed on the 11 000 foot strip at Goose and we couldn't understand that either. Especially as the whole ish dumped, in its valise, as soon as the drogue pulled the bag out of the stowage.

Pont N

Methinks I was not making myself clear. Catterick had, still HAS, a tarmac/concrete runway. It's still there but the Army are building all over it. The gliders winch off the parallel grass strip.

GF, I bow to your better knowledge. Although I had the priviledge of doing a one week course at Catterick, squeezed in to 4 weeks, including time on the airfield, I obviously missed that stretch of tarmac.

The 'smoke' you saw was probably dust. I was scheduled to deliver the ac, but subsequently it was decided that a trapper would do the job because of the short runway. Never mind that we had practiced back at Scampton and could stop well within the distance [can't remember the figures].

It was agreed that we would shut down on the runway and the ac towed to the dump - the taxyways were very narrow and in poor condition. Anyway, said trapper was smarter that everybody else and decided to taxy it round. It took the annoyed staff at Catterick a long time to dig the bogie out of the grass, where he put it as he turned off the runway. Pratt.

Was that the GSU person with the French-sounding name?

(Edited to add: I don't mean dear old Joe L'Estrange!)

Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
 

I have a quick question...

Will 558 ever get finished and back in the air? All it seems to do is miss every deadline by miles and the next one set months away, by an even greater margin.

Is there any hope?

I support the charity but am geting a little fed up with keep hearing excuses and not the mighty birds engines spooling up for flight.


Any realistic update anyone??

As much as I would love to respond to this thread in great detail... :rolleyes:

May I suggest you visit http://www.tvoc.co.uk and do a spot of digging for yourself?

You should find the answers to most of your questions there, from people who do actually have an idea as to what is going on with XH558.


Flipflopman

Lets just say that I'm quite confident about not having to buy any roses until Valentine's Day...;)

Go Here and you can watch it being worked on.

http://www.camvista.com/england/othe...tothesky01.php

Could be cold, wet and windy rather than just wet and windy.

Hope it is earlier or pray for fine weather.

The problem is that there are too many so-called 'experts' who front up this project, who frankly know diddly squat! I was told personally by 'Rusty' that the aircraft would definately be at Waddo, although she did say it wouldn't display, just static. She also categorically told me that it would fly and display at RIAT, guaranteed. Well guess what?

Of course neither happened, and you end up with further frustration at a team that appears to be ruderless and makes promises they cannot keep. The result is a public that is once again rapidly running out of patience.

At RIAT I asked the 'official' Vulcan stall if they had any memorabilia to purchase and was told that they only had some damaged compressor blades at some ridiculous amount of money. But i could make a donation please! Yeh, right.

I'm afraid that all you get is this never-ending plea for more money, promises that never materialise and a total lack of credibility from an organisation that should and could do so much better.

Robert Plemming never responds to posts on here, in fact he has never responded to one of the letters I have written to him and I know many others
have also written to him with no responce. But unless something happens fairly soon, the project will again come under threat and perhaps fold. Its time for them to stop poncing around and showing off in their 'freebie' 4x4's and get something done, that the puiblic can see.

With only one 'major' type airshow left in the UK this year, it looks highly unlikely that the public will see the old girl fly this year, or maybe not any year, who knows?

Kind regards
TSM

...and there I was the other day wondering if Tombstone was practising his Salsa and getting various (previously unseen in public) bits waxed and touched up? :cool:

There are so many variables, that if, for example, the delay with the PFCU motors, that it is nigh on impossible to pin down an EXACT flight date. There are so many things to go wrong and they are at the mercy of so many suppliers/OEM's that no one can say for sure when she'll fly. :ugh:

As Flip Flop Man said, go to the website forums, ask the question, and an engineer will give you the answer. Quite simple really... :}

Don't worry, Tombstone - Primetime Joanna will supply both camera crew and rose......

Part 2 of her Vulcan to the Sky trilogy (yes, I know) is now out - a very good DVD indeed - you can see a preview on the www.tvoc.co.uk website. Please buy one and support the project - part 3 should be out in August, with luck. And a 4 part boxed set later in the year.

And VIP tickets have now been won (not by me :sad:) to view the first flight.

Expect to hear the purr of 4 x Olympussies very soon now!

I'm hoping that I will have to make an arse of myself as I really want to see the lady fly however, I don't think I will anytime soon...:{

The season will be well and truly over long before they are ready to launch, according to my well placed contact. Shame.

Tombstone, as for iank's post, fair turned my stomach.

Apart from FlipFlopMan we never get any sense from this outfit. Let me guess just how long they've known that re-certified PFCUs were a 'rather important' ingredient. :mad:

Anyway, is it the PFCU's or the PFCU motors? If it's the motors just how long does it take to re-cert an electric motor?

...and there I was the other day wondering if Tombstone was practising his Salsa and getting various (previously unseen in public) bits waxed and touched up?

WAX! Who mentioned wax?!? Rose thorns yes, wax no. That would simply be :mad: wrong, wrecking any (hmmm) street cred I'd have left after producing said rose and going hands free...

Touched up... Well, if there are any pretty ladies out there who are willing...:ok:

One of the things I learned very, very quickly as a techie was to avoid giving an estimate of how long as job was going to take at all costs, because someone, somewhere would treat your word as a cast iron guarantee of job completion :* Aircraft maintenance is not always an exact science, and with the number of systems that this aircraft has, and their age and complexity, the team must have been faced with a daunting task in restoring her to flying condition.
In her day this old lady would have been maintained by a mass of experienced techies with spares on demand, full sets of APs, manufacturer support, and of course she wouldn't have been laid up for years doing nothing, gathering dust, moisture and corrosion in her vital parts. The team are having to re-learn old systems and also train up people who have never seen a Vulcan fly in their lives. I am actually amazed that they've got this close, and always thought that the estimate for flying her this year was optimistic, especially when I saw the state she was in last year. Missed deadlines are part and parcel of the job of getting her up again, keep the faith as I'm sure they'll do it.

I am very surprised this thread has aired itself on what is a aircrew dominated forum, surely you guys should understand that such a laborious and critical task of restoring this particular type of aircraft can only be done one way and that is the CORRECT way !

These things take time, for the sake of 558, her crew and her fans, let the restoration take as long as is necessary.

Thank you......

Just a very quick one, as this is not really a thread in which I wish to become entrenched,

Forget,

Thank you for your kind words, however, I must set the record straight regarding the PFCU motors. These were sent away to OEM over two years ago. The question of how long does it take to certify a set of motors, is a very pertinent one indeed. This has been completely out of the hands of TVOC, and has been entirely due to hold ups with the OEM. There have been issues with the motor bearings, then with the shellac for the windings, the list truly goes on. Return dates have come and gone, and unfortunately left us up the proverbial creek. The PFCU motors are unfortunately not the only components we have had OEM issues with, however, sadly, beggars cannot be choosers, and when you are having the work carried out for free, or at vastly reduced cost, you cannot simply go shouting the odds, especially when the support of the same OEM is critical to the CAA permitting the aircraft to fly.

I can assure you all that we are truly working as hard as is physically possible to return XH558 to the air as soon as possible, recently working anything up to an 18 hour shift in order to 'get the job done' however, sometimes things are out of our hands. I would like to ask for your continued support and a little faith in the fact that we are actually doing everything physically possible to return XH558 to the skies as soon as is humanly possible.

Finally, Tombstone, I can quite happily tell you that your well placed contact is quite wide of the mark, and I rest happy in the knowledge that when you are soon 'making an arse of yourself', you were actively looking forward to it :E

Thanks chaps :ok:


Flipflopman

I must say that my original scepticism that this was a "do-able" project was based on my memory of how hard it was to keep the Vulcan fleet in the air with full support from all the OEMs and a fairly huge workforce. In forty years its still the most unreliable and labour intensive aircraft I've ever encountered bar none - even the Shack. I think its amazing that the restoration has got as far as it has. The boundless optimism that leads the team to miss deadlines is in fact the same optimism that keeps the project going.

Getting 558 airborne is of course only the beginning; keeping it airborne is likely to be even more expensive and time consuming. Even though I don't share the team's boundless enthusiasm, I do hope they succeed.

Can't remember which of the following papers ran this (Times or Mail I think), but on Saturday en-route somewhere I remember seeing the chance to fly in the Vulcan being advertised

I didnt keep the paper in question and wondered if anybody else saw this?

Or was I just dreaming it all????

The competition was to win a flight to fly in another aeroplane alongside the Vulcan, not in the Vulcan itself.

flipflopman RB199

The problem as I see it, is not the fact that delays occur (anyone with any understanding would expect that) but with the folks who 'front up' your organisation, and keep making promises that constantly fail to materialise.

When things don't go as 'promised' and the aircraft dosn't pitch up at Waddo or RIAT, it is those at the 'front' of your team who then blame everyone else for the delays, OEMs in particular.

This is what is getting people annoyed and frustrated with this entire project, constant promises from ill-advised so-called experts, who frankly wouldn't know one end of the aircraft from the other! Please tell them to just shut up and keep quiet and tell them they MUST stop making wild and unrealistic promises that do your cause more harm than good.

TSM

Thanks for that BEagle........I was scanning the instruments far more intently than I was the paper....obviously! :O

Granny and eggs not intended here - but was/is the electric motor in question unique to the Vulcan PFCUs? Unlikely I'd have thought.

Hmmm. Perhaps a little too far gone to be used as spares. :hmm:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/pfcu.jpg

If you buy a copy of Joanna's new DVD, you will see that the aircraft is being rebuilt to a much higher standard than original. That's because the legislation of today requires it. The VOC will effectively be running to a one aeroplane airline standard.

The team are replacing anything and everything which requires change. The also discovered evidence of poor workmanship in the first place (such as the bomb bay heating system) and also had to remove some components which were never expected to need removal (such as oxygen pipework). Just watch the guys worming their way into the bowels of the jet to get at the parts which needed inspecting or changing - that's dedication for you.

The OEMs promised what they could - but they could not reasonably be expected to put aside revenue generating normal work when the necessary work (such as elevon repairs) proved to be more than was originally anticipated.

Yes, perhaps a better update and information system should have been in place. But rest assured that the first flight will be quite soon now - and please remind folk that any contributions are always welcome. Incidentally, £65K was raised by VTS Club members applying for the 15 pairs of VIP tickets to the first flight viewing, so there is definite interest in seeing the aircraft fly still out there!

See www.tvoc.co.uk for the latest information - and please be patient for a little while longer!!

You seem to be quite closely involved BEags, are you down as one of the pilots?

No, I'm not. Much as I would love to be, the fact is that I've had so few days in the UK this year that I wouldn't have been able to help much, even had I been fortunate enough to be considered.

But I keep in touch with People Who Do Know - although you won't get any sneak previews from me as I have promised total confidentiality.

Not after any previews, just idle curiosity.

I look forward to seeing it airborne (and a certain person doing something with a rose).:)

Not really wishing to cover old ground or be too pedantic regarding tantalising snippets about were and when 558 would or would not appear surley anyone with a grain of sense must understand the phrase 'Subject Too Servicability'.

558 is currently not servicable simple as that, when it is then the groups calender will advertise the dates that it 'May' appear and when they do I am certain that everyone involved will do there best to ensure those dates are kept.

So in the absence of a fixed date for first flight we must all rely on the engineers having the time too update the website or answer questions on the TVOC Forum with regard too how things are progressing.

Beyond that speculation is a rather futile occupation.

But why the need? I thought that XH558 was now "owned by the nation", and therefore an open attitude is more appropriate. Not having a go at you Beags, if you've been asked to keep stumm, then naturally you must keep your promise. But I suggest an aura of secrecy is not conducive to attracting continued financial support from Joe public.

There is concern that the Bruntingthorpe area would be overrun with twitchers if the date of the first flight leaked into the public domain. That could prejudice the safety of the area - the police don't have enough man power to remove idiots and their little aluminium step ladders from dangerous locations.....

And the surrounding airspace im sure they dont want to spend there first flight dodging spamcans by the dozen.

But wouldn't they miss out on a massive PR opportunity by not announcing the first flight date?

If they are worried about safety, why not make it an official event. Sort out parking on the airfield and charge the spectators a small nominal fee to see the aircraft getting rolled out, made ready for flight and then the taxi and the take off. Any monies made could go to the fund. Invite the press.

I'd rather turn on the news on BBC/ITV etc and hear ".... and thousands turned up to see the historic Vulcan Bomber XH 558 take to the skies again" rather than a damp squid in the form of "And finally an old RAF bomber flew again after restoration"

Presumably it's dipped a tentacle (or two) into the water first, just in case it doesn't like it? :hmm:

If you go on the website, they're VERY concerned that any large crowd immediately transitions the first flight from a "test flight" which is allowable, to a "display" which it will not yet be certified to do. Doesn't matter that it is not billed as a display - it appears that the presence of large number of the public will make it so under CAA rules.

I’d wonder just how Bruntingthorpe plans to ‘keep secret’ the first flight of 558? The aircraft will be pushed in and out of the hangar for a week at least, for engine runs etc, before it finally launches. It wouldn’t take a 60’s ex Kremlin employee, probably still in the black Zlin that used to park on the A15, to predict within an hour or two, just when the nose will point skywards.

Trying to keep the event secret is just inviting problems. Probably almost the same number of people, but complete anarchy rather than crowd control.

This needs a re-think Hoskins! :confused: