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Airfield near Weybridge
Passed this place on the train today. Looked on Google Earth and the satellite picture revealed a VC10, Caravelle, Hunter and a couple of others.
Coordinates for this on Google Earth :- 51*21'16.33" N 0*28'00.44" W. Anyone got any ideas??? |
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Brooklands was the Home of Vickers and then BAC. Notable contributions to military aviation TSR2 and the VC10 and many others. The Concorde nose was built there as was the VC10 and BAC 1-11. Have a look on google earth for nearby Wisley airfield (now the Ockham hold) from where the moving map and Decca nav was trialed. Did Wisley have a military history?
Brooklands was a small airfield so getting a VC10 in there must have taken great skill. So if theres anyone out there that achieved such a task let us know how it was done. |
The VC10 at Brooklands - A40AB - was flown in during the 1980s. A former colleague of mine who lived at the time in the undershoot was at home when it 'arrived'. They had to lop a few trees near the threshold. He told me that it was VERY low on arrival and was obviously pretty light, though if you go on board now and see all the panelling etc all that interior must weigh quite a bit!
I don't think that with the further serious erosion into the runway length available that any more a/c movements by air will be possible. Super museum, well worth a visit (or 2). Apparently a lot of a/c built at Brooklands during and after the war were flown out to Wisley for fitting out etc. This airfield is a great unused aviation resource but the locals are absolutely against any kind of disturbance to their peace & quiet (never mind the 6-lane highway thundering past...) Cheres, TheOddOne |
Didn't the VC10 at Brooklands have a serious structural failure to its undercarriage a while back?
Also, haven't they now been moved off of the main airfield site (across a temporary bridge) to the main museum side as the airfield is being developed on? |
Sorry, it's still the birthplace of modern motor racing to me. The first permanent road circuit in the world!
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Wisley had a pseudo-military history, as it handled aircraft ssuch as the VC10 and Valiant, which couldn't operate very comfortably out of Brooklands.
However, it would be wrong to sugest that the VC10 needs acres of runway -it was designed to have a very respectable short field capability. Brooklands... never mind racing cars, what about Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines... good ol' Terry Thomas! |
I can't resist commenting on the notion that one of the most significant contributions to aerospace made by Vickers was the TSR2; in actual fact, it was the involvement of Vickers (after EE was effectively forced to merge with them by the stupid government) that contributed to the spiraling cost and eventual cancellation of the entire TSR2 project. If Vickers had kept their sticky fingers off it, the TSR2 (which was essentially an EE design in the first place) would probably have survived.
On the other hand, Vickers did produce what was undoubtedly the best (or at least the most practical) of the V-Bomber designs, and produced the magnificent, but grossly under-rated, Varsity! |
Tim
I learn something new every day. I didn't know that TSR2 was an EE design. Did Mr Petter have anything to do with it? Not wishing to digress but did Wisley make any contribution to the protection of London buring the blitz? Or was it solely Vicker's airfield? By the way has PC forced the name change of the Black Boys pub nearby? |
As far as I know, Wisley was only ever used by Vickers - I don't think any military units were ever based there.
The TSR2 was very much an EE project (albeit under other names) but I don't think Petter had anything to do with it (at least as far as I know offhand). Vickers only got involved after the merger, and gradually took on more and more of the project until the whole programme became an endless saga of committee meetings to discuss which company produced which bit, causing the project to become hideously expensive. I don't think anyone ever quite worked out how the TSR2 wasn't built at Salmesbury or Warton in the first place, but cynics would say that it was all about big "southern" companies believing that they knew better than "backward northerners"... But as we all know, the TSR2 story is a sorry tale no matter how you look at it! |
RE:AIRFIELD NEAR WEYBRIDGE
Carevelle ?? Where was Your train ??..
But seriously... Brooklands Aviation started in 1908 with A.V.Roe and carried on with the likes of Sopwith, Hawkers, Vickers, BAC, BAe. etc.... Alcock and Brown's transatlantic Vickers Vimy was built there, The first Hawker Hurricane flew from there, all the VC-10's were built and did there 1st flight's from there, Vanguard's - all of them!, some 1-11's,... I could go on and on .....! Oh.. and major chunk's of Concorde !!! I am a Volunteer there and help maintain and preserve the Aircraft especialy our BAC 1-11 G-ASYD the test and Development aircraft. Sadly there is no runway left as already pointed out, the airfield was never owned by the museum and is now being developed. The VC-10 flew in in 1987, the 1-11 in 1994 on the 500m left and so did the Vanguard in 1996. Cheer's P.S the google system is well out of date!!.. how many varsity's can You count !!. |
In his defence, KennyR's aircraft (or AFV for that matter) recognition skills were never that great. Anything more puzzling than another Gazelle he'd pass over the cockpit to his Aircrewman.
:E |
He's forgiven !!
He was closer than the people that read the sign then board the aircraft and say "Isn't this a Trident?" !!.. The normal response is "Go outside and count the engines and then think of the word TRIdent " But this sadly is only said in our thought's!!.. The VC-10's and 1-11's during the production years had no real problem getting in and out of brooklands as long as they were empty.. I have seen a couple on VC-10 land and a few 1-11's and even A40-AB arriving in 1987 stopped with plenty of room. The Runway was still full length then but in the early 90's a road was built across it and that left us with the 500m to get the 1-11 and Vanguard in... Cheer's |
P.S the google system is well out of date!!.. how many varsity's can You count !!.[/QUOTE]
Holy Cow! If you can count more than one Varsity (in the museum), then Google must be out of date by about forty years - as (unless I'm seriously mistaken) that would be the very latest that any other Varsities were at Brooklands! In fact fifty years woud be pushing-it? |
How many Varisties? More than one Vanguard as well I think; I'd say Brooklands is made up of two different images, taken some time apart, which have been merged together by Google - between the two, those ever helpful Brooklands folk moved their aeroplanes around! :p
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RE: Airfield near Weybridge
Treadigraph,
Yep.. 2 Varsity's and a couple of shadow Vanguard's plus the real one!!.. And if You remove the square'ish white box You would get a suprise!!.. Lurking underneath is... Concorde 202 G-BBDG...!! I think we've confused Google enough so have stopped moving the aircraft around (for the time being!!).. Cheer's |
Originally Posted by TheOddOne
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Apparently a lot of a/c built at Brooklands during and after the war were flown out to Wisley for fitting out etc. This airfield is a great unused aviation resource but the locals are absolutely against any kind of disturbance to their peace & quiet did Wisley make any contribution to the protection of London buring the blitz? |
The aerial picture on Windows Local Live is different (http://local.live.com/ find it on the road map then click "aerial"). Is that one more up to date than Google?
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My Action Stations Vol.8 tells me that Wisley was discovered by accident by Mutt Summers (Vickers Armstrong test pilot) who had to make a forced landing and "found an open space behind the woodland that fringed the A3 London to Portsmouth road and which was only three miles from from the Vickers Armstrong factory at Weybridge".
"Two or three years later the site was surveyed and work was started to develop it into a relief airfield for the nearby factory. Wisley came into use in 1943 as a grass airfield and was used for the the remainder of the war". It apparently closed in 1973 by which time it had sprouted a 7,500 ft runway. |
The runway at Wisley is still visible, but in case you're tempted to try a landing there, it has no less than three sets of ARMCO barriers across it deliniating public rights of way.
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im amazed. thought i knew the area pretty well, (worked in esher). but ive never seen that runway before!
nor even heard of it. |
Please remember also that Wisley is most definatly Private Property.
THe Runway is in amazing condition for something that has not been maintained for 30+ years. The length of the runway taken from a document I have in front of me is 6,690ft. This document details one of the test that our BAC 1-11 at Brooklands was going to do in 1970 whilst it was the 500 series prototype. The gravel test conducted was to see the stone trajectories before the aircraft was converted to the 475 series prototype. Off topic but anyone coming down to the Dunsfold airshow on Sunday 27th ?? . M5DND |
An aside on events at Wisley.
1963? One afternoon( I think during the school holiday period), I was overlooking the airfield at the Martyr's Green end. BAC One Eleven G-ASHG turned finals, came very close as a/c did at that end, landed, reverse thrust was selected, the a/c swung off the runway to stbd and disappeared in a cloud of dust. Port thrust reverser failure? Does anyone have any info about this incident? Will look at my log book for the period to determine the date. |
Kieron - first observation - you are an older git than me. But no shame in that, I wish I'd been born a few years earlier!
Second is, just dis-intered a book from loft - G-ASHG appears to be BAC's prototype 1-11, c/n 4. FF 29/8/63 -eh? also says 20th Aug? - W/O Chicklade 22/10/63. Presumably the Mike Lithgow deep stall accident? March '64, c/n 6 G-ASJB w/o Wisley. No details in my book (spotters production list), could this be the Lithgow prang? Details please oh my knowledgeable brethren... |
There is an excellent book available called "Silent Swift Superb, The Story of the Vickers VC10". The text details the development and building of the VC10 at Brooklands and flight testing from Wisley. There are many good photos from both locations to support the text. The book also describes route proving and in-service experiences from various operators. Well worth a read.
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Thanks Treadigraph.
Yes I am older than you, blame my parents for that! G-ASHG was indeed the prototype BAC One Eleven. I have the most vivid memory of the event, but my log book does not indicate which day, except that I saw G-ASHG three times at Wisley: 28th September 1963, 12th October 1963 and 19th October 1963. Can anyone shed any light on this incident? The crash which killed Mike Lithgow involved G-ASHG on 22nd October 1963. |
From a BAC 1-11 website:
G-ASHG BAC 1-11-200AB Flying Prototype. Rolled out 28-7-63. F/F 20-8-63. Time in air 27 mins. Pilot G.R.Bryce. Cr at Stonehill Copse ,Chirklade,nr Tisbury ,Wilts .22-10-63. Seven on board killed. Cause was found to be that the a/c ,carrying out stall recovery tests,entered a stable stall and fell 16000 ft in a stable horizontal attitude with little forward speed . Recovery was impossible. |
G-ASJB was involved in the accident in March 64 when the flight crew got into the pilot induced oscilation problem 3 times but the ground got in the way all 3 times.
The aircraft was seriouly damaged but the crew were all OK (show how strong the 1-11 is ! If You have seen the pictures You will know what I mean!!). It was then transported to Weybridge (Brooklands) for rebuild but wasn't completed. I have spoken to some of the crew who were onboard and it sounded quite an event.. At Brooklands Museum We have part of the port wing of SJB on display. |
M5dnd
Do you know how much of Victor Mike is going to Brooklands from Cosford? Originally I heard it was the cockpit section, then the tail as a spare for the Brooklands Standard VC10, now I hear more spares are wanted. It's tragic to see VM broken up. Can you cheer us up with any news that more will be saved? |
<<G-ASHG BAC 1-11-200AB
Flying Prototype. Rolled out 28-7-63. F/F 20-8-63. Time in air 27 mins. Pilot G.R.Bryce. Cr at Stonehill Copse ,Chirklade,nr Tisbury ,Wilts .22-10-63. Seven on board killed. >> This surely cannot be correct? "Jock" Bryce was still alive and kicking in 2001. Or could there be two similarly named test pilots? |
Flt.Lt. G.R.Bryce OBE was CTP Vickers Armstrongs until 1964 so could not possibly have died in the prototype One Eleven crash in 1963.
Lt.Cdr. M J Lithgow RN OBE DSC was piloting the ill fated One Eleven in 1963. Do not believe everything you see on the internet, even on this forum! |
Weybridge and TSR.2
I have childhood memories of the area around Weybridge as my father worked on the design of the TSR.2 (and previously the DH110).
He saw the cancellation coming and left first (in 1966), moving back to his native Scotland. From there I moved to Australia but I'm planning on visiting the UK this Christmas and I hope to see one of the preserved examples. The question is, Cosford or Duxford? |
History of Wisley & One-Eleven accidents
Wisley was first discovered by Vickers' CTP Mutt Summers in 1941 and developed as a flight test centre for use by the firm in 1943 with a grass runway and large hangar.
In the War years and its aftermath a number of unusual types were based there for trials of "Highball" a smaller version of the Barnes Wallis "Upkeep" Dambuster bomb. Post-War for the development of Vickers guided missiles various non-Vickers aircraft including Meteors, Canberras and a Washington were based at Wisley. The Washington was written off in a spectacular accident in 1955 when a Valiant collided with it. Some Vickers types made their maiden flights from there including the Valiant (on grass!) and the Viking and the Viscount. However generally in later years Vickers types made their maiden flights from Brooklands into Wisley. The prototype One-Eleven made its first flight from Hurn on August 20, 1963 with BAC's CTP Jock Bryce at the controls. A few flights later it relocated to Wisley but crashed killing all seven on board on October 22, 1963 with Mike Lithgow (by then Vickers Deputy CTP) at the controls. The aircraft had entered a deep stall from which it was unable to recover. The second production One-Eleven G-ASJB crashed at Wisley on March 18, 1963 as a result of a loss of control by the pilots . The undercarriage came off and one of the engines was virtually severed from its pylon. There were fortunately only minor injuries. The aircraft was dismantled and the fuselage returned to Hurn with the intention of rebuilding it but this was abandoned. Wisley continued in use for the VC10 and One-Eleven trials but as these came to an end there was nothing to replace them and Wisley closed on April 14, 1972. |
For those interested in Wisley, this is a good start:)
WISLEY the story of Vickers' own airfield an AIRFIELD FOCUS special by Stephen Skinner ISBN 1-904514-30-8 £9.99 Hope that helps.............:) cracking read, makes one realise what we had..........lost:ugh: Also for those mourning all things Vickers/BAC, the authorised biography of Sir George Edwards OM, by Robert Gardner is a compelling read. ISBN 0-7509-4389-0 Whatever must he be thinking - casting his eye from a far - as BAe sells off the last vestige of the once proud/innovative civil a/c industry:hmm: Shocking:* |
I was also out and about on Saturday - the other airfield near Weybridge...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Shefftim/Wis.jpg |
Tim, were you perchance leaning out the back of a Chinook to take that?
Hey it's a good runway still, sort of... when I win the Euro Millions on Friday I could realise my dreams, buy it and turn it into a Duxford rival... Or Airborne Artiste could make me do a parachute jump and realise my nightmares... |
...more like sitting on a freezing cold ramp of a Chinook brrrrr!
Poor ol' Wisley is doomed, thanks to the local Nimby population that evidently thwarts any attempt to conduct any aviation activity on the site:( |
It might look in good condition, but as I said before, those footpaths crossing it have ARMCO barriers either side; I know if at least one guy who had engine failure nearby, landed safely on the runway, then wiped off his undercarriage on the said barrier.
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WISLEY
Chevvron, which incident was that then, landing and hitting the barriers? There is a big bus rally held on there around early April each year associated with the nearby Cobham Bus Museum. I know they only just scraped by to get approval for that for a day. Also, just opened on part of the former Brooklands site is "Mercedes Benz World", did anyone else see the searchlights in the sky last night? The site opened to the public recently and is mostly owned by Mercedes Benz. Brooklands is majorly re-developed now, shops, offices, warehouses, car parks etc etc. |
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