Llanbedr (North Wales)
 

Does anyone know if Llanbedr is still to close in either 2004 or 2005? I know there was a lot of local uproar as it is quite a big employer for the Cambrian Coast... did this change anything?

For those that don't know Llanbedr, its one of the only places in the country you can find Jindivik target drones, Hawks, Alpha Jets, Canberra (TT18 i think) and last but most DEFINATELY not least an airworthy Meteor D.16.

Many an hour was spent watching some of the training there where a hawk or two would take off and circle whilst a Jindivik would take off aboard its little trolley (no landing gear as such bar a skid). They would then formate and head out over the Irish sea. Never really knew what went on out there but a couple of times the drone didn't return!

If the closure is still going ahead then I would really hate to see the Meteor end up in a museum as it is fully airworthy and to my knowledge it still flies quite a bit (correct me if I'm wrong!) as well as the Canberra(s)...

best close it - it's in wales

dada,

A very inappropriate comment. At least come up with something original or the slightest bit witty about the place if you're going to slag it.
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/splat.gif

He's like that, full of stupid comments! :sad:

Are the Hawks still there? I thought that they got the Alpha jets because the Hawks were being transfered to the RAF to help keep the training schedule moving.

Looks like the rumours are true then QuinetiQ have already shut down West Freugh, looks like Aberporth and Llanbedr are next.

The loss of the Apprentice scheme was a great loss to an area which has little to offer young people, the loss of the bases will be even worse.:(

Back in February, Dr Moonie disclosed that he would consider leasing the base out - apparently Boeing was asked if it was interested!

At that time, he responded to the local MP as follows - I have found no news since this, apart from a mention in June about considering Llanbedr as one of a number of "regional" airports that could be set up in Wales, along the lines of those in Ireland, using EU grants to subsidise this "public" service! Better not hold your breath on this one.

I've heard reliable rumours of spirited attempts to turn it into a technology park, centred around the airfield - with Welsh Development Agency grants trying to lure in aviation and hi-tech businesses.

I must admit, I could think of worse places to live and work. Warton for example :} It could become a sort of British Mojave, acting as a civilian flight test centre, lots of nice open Irish sea to fly over, very little traffic, and a decent airfield facility.


The Jindiviks are / were used as targets or target tugs, mostly the latter. When dealing with autonomous missiles, occasionally you got the tug not the target, hence the use of an unmanned aircraft !

G

Used to love going down that bit of coast - standing on the dunes at Shell Island watching the Meteors, Jindiviks and Sea Vixen. Superb!:D There was always that air of mystery with the place too! Are the Jindiviks being replaced and is the Phantom still on the dump there?

Just heard about this from my Mum this morning

£3 Milion helicopter contract for Aberporth

so not all doom and gloom.

On a trip to Llanbedr in February 1969 there were 21 Jindivik's on site. I seem to recall that you had to guage the tides right to get to and from the 'island' is this correct?

The tide across the causeway to Shell Island "holiday park" could indeed be risky if timed wrong

Spent many happy weeks there with the ATC. The sight of the Vixen , 2 of the most gorgous coloured Canberras ever doing pairs approaches , the then based Hawks tail chasing whilst the runway was closed for the Jindivik to be recovered- great stuff

Flying was sporadic but quality.

Getting in the hangar and clambering over the fleet (Vixen -still in its real colours and not the pathetic circus act scheme at the moment):* Devon, 2 Hawks, 2 Meteors and about 12 Jindiviks.
The other Vixen XS577 had been retired and was sitting outside, this has since been chopped up but I believe the nose was spared - but from previous threads you may have noticed my hatred of that practice!

The two Hawks were XX154 and XX160 - the very first Hawk to fly and one of the pre-production airframes. Due to pathetic short sightedness, the RAF had to reclaim them as there was a shortfall in the number of Hawks available.Surely in the late 80s the question should have been asked- Our Hawks will soon be knackered shall we order some more while were still making them? But no, we wait until 2003 and very nearly buy joint Italian - Russian types!.
We then had to lease the Hawks lesser rival - the Alpha Jet to perform the reserach functions - any comments from BD or Llanbedr on operating these? Has anyone at ETPS performed an inverted spin since the Hunter was retired??:cool:

The Canberras, WH734 and WK128 are both still there but have not flown since April 2002. (Long term storage pending disposal I think).

As I understand it Llanbedr is to close at some point in the near future. Their last lifeline is apparently them bidding for the Air Ambulance contract. The Air Ambulance are currently at Caernarfon and seemingly very happy.....so there is a bit of a battle going on.......

I had heard that the flying activities were going to move down to Aberporth - great shame if that were to be the case. I presume that the Jindiviks will be replaced then as well and things will never be the same............

Don't forget that the RAF gave the Royal Navy some "surplus" Hawks to replace the fleet of FRADU Hunters.
Brilliant decision that :ok:

Jack,

When chatting to the lads in the hangar last December, I learned that severeal vital parts on the Canberras were life expired and replacements were not available.

Elsewhere, I heard a rumour that the two airframes were to be reclaimed to keep 39 Sqn's aircraft in the air; alas, they would be cut=up on site for parts reclamation.

Sad.:(

Chairborne,

"Elsewhere, I heard a rumour that the two airframes were to be reclaimed to keep 39 Sqn's aircraft in the air; alas, they would be cut=up on site for parts reclamation."

39's trusty steeds are PR.9s and T.4s. The T.4's could benefit from some bits from the Llanbedr airframes, but not much - small items, jacks, etc. As I heard it, it's the Avons the RAF logistics (at Wyton) want for the T.4s, but there seems to be some inter-departmental thing going on preventing an easy transfer. :*

Surely if Air Atlantique and the Ozzies can keep a privately owned Canberra flying each , then the MoD can afford a few bits n pieces to keep at least one of their TT18s flying???

Its laughable it really is - I ask you , a couple of poxy Alpha Jets to essentially replace a Sea Vixen, 2 Meteors, 2 Hawks and 2 Canberras for specialist target facilities and support functions!

Incidentally when I was up there in '91-92 (ish) there was talk of converting a couple of ex RAF Phantoms to high speed drone configuration to replace the cvix. Imagine that a red'n yella Phantom - sooperb!

Then the money dried up when the MoD went civilian.

Just another example of the cash-strapped era we've ended up in.... But no doubt we're still pi$$ing money away on the worthless MRA4 and the Bureaufighter - can they get its wheels to go up and down yet?

And as for having to rob what are virtually museum pieces in order to keep the ancient aircraft of the RAF's only PRU flying.....words fail me!

Beeayeate,

For

'There seems to be some inter-departmental thing going on preventing an easy transfer'.

Read

We will sell the spares back to you. (Yes its true)!

hairyclameater

'Surely if Air Atlantique and the Ozzies can keep a privately owned Canberra flying each , then the MoD can afford a few bits n pieces to keep at least one of their TT18s flying'?

Being in the loop I can tell you that both a/c have little problem with spares.

BTW both Llanbedr aircraft have fairly low hours, 3,800 hrs in WK128’s case and WH734 with only1,900 hrs.

Hi "Jack" :hmm: :hmm:

"We will sell the spares back to you. (Yes its true)!"

Yes, that's what I understood, but didn't want to come right out and say it! :E

734 & 128, as I understand it have "major components" that are out of hours rather than the airframe. Seems they are strapped for spares as well maybe!

And there are three ex-RAF Canberras flying privately and commercially in the states - how do they do that, eh? :confused:

(I still think the red lightning's in the wrong position Jack ;) ;) ;) )

Great idea!! Let a proper civilian organisation fly the TT18s and B2/6 on target facilities duties during the week and airshows at the weekend!! Give em the Meteor as well!

Ah so it's not only me who spent half my summer holidays as a kid on Shell Island, like someone said earlier there was a certain amount of mystique about the place, this was increased by having "Photography strictly Prohibited" signs dotted around everywhere ! One night the runway lights suddenly lit up without warning at around midnight and my Father and I was literally pi55ing ourselves with anticipation(Well that was his excuse, I used to notice it everytime he drank Guinness) of what was about to happen next, when suddenly we heard the noise of a Jet engine........come closer........and closer........then we saw the Nav lights........and then the anticlimax, it was only a Civvie Citation ! Humphhhhh back to bed for me & another can of Guinness for Dad !
Hehe, Yeah it may have only been a Citation but it could have easily been a Blackbird,U-2 or even a Stealth a/c (Runway length permitting of course:D) the point I'm trying to make is that it was the kind of place where nothing i saw would have shocked me but in actual fact, nothing is probably exactly what took place their most of the time !

I still stop off their occasionally for a nosey just to pay respect to the place, for without Llanbedr & the interest it provided to me as a kid, I could have ended up as an accountant or something eaqually boring now ! A couple of years ago there was an airship tethered on the airfield carrying out some trails along with another ex Navy Canberra TT18 (WH887) which I presume was there to be scrapped ?
Earlier this year there was no Sea Vixens or Canberras to be seen anywhere on the field inc. the dump (I walked up to the sand dunes) only the Phantom & a couple of Alphajets oh and of course the lovely meteor ('L' I think)sat outside rotting away.

What a terrible waist of a lovely airfield if it does go, please keep us informed if anyone hears more on the subject, I wonder if anyone on the Mil Forum is active their ?

Neg G

p.s A good book on the field is called "Target Rolling" available from Shell island or ISBN No. 1-85780-136-9 price £10.99

WH887 was absorbed into the Llanbedr fleet after it finished its FRADU career in December 1992. Not sure if it ever flew with the Unit or if its main purpose was as a "christmas tree" to keep the other jets flying.

I'm not sure where it is now, does anyone know?

M

Keep em coming
 

Some great replies here, keep them coming if you can!

Neg G, the amount of times I got my dad do drive us all the way from Dolgellau (eating into said parents' valuable holiday time) only to see nothing there but an eerily empty airfield with the hangar doors firmly shut. Any distant rumble from the mountains was enough to try and persuade them to let us stay a little longer....just in case!
Still the place did (and I gues still does) have that air of mystery. Nothing would have been out of place there, especially like you say with all those signs there. Wales' own little Boscombe I suppose.

As for the future, I think I've seen the last of the active Llanbedr. Cant see the helicopter moving there from just up the road. Does the RAF have a Sea King up at Valley? If so then thats too close too. Last resort would be Air Wales (who I'm sure mentioned something when they were looking at starting up) but I think they're too big for that now anyway plus the catchment area really isn't great!

If only!

It is a real shame that it seems to be closing now - I too dragged my parents there on the off chance of seeng something strange and mysterious - it was still worth travelling all the way from Shropshire just to see the Sea Vixen and Meteors. (some how the Hawks were never the same - and the Alpha Jets??). Many a happy day spent sitting on the dunes looking over the airfield.

Neg G - what condition was the Phantom in when you visited??

Is this the end of the Jindiviks too?:sad:

I thought it about time to resurrect this thread after last week’s announcements on defence cuts:( and also my impending trip to Shell Island :D

Has anyone heard anything more about the closure date of Llanbedr ?

I was told via a friends, uncles, cousins second nieces brother in-laws girlfriends Mum's mates husband, that a couple of weeks ago whilst on holiday at Shell Island there were 2 Meteors, 2 Alphajets, 2 Jindiviks, a Hawk and a USAF MH53 helicopter sharing the ramp at the sleepy site !:hmm:

In a very late answer to your question "Shropshire Lad", the Phantom was in a poor state last year IIRC the canopy had been left open with several panels etc... missing.

Please let any news be good news :ok:

Neg G

Neg G, I'll be expecting a report when you return from Shell Island!

And, perhaps a couple of piccies of how it is now?! :ok:

A couple of weeks ago there were a couple of Meteors (I think?) and the Phantom. There were a also a couple of Jindivik drones.

Looked very sleepy.

DeepC

I was looking from the road side high up above the site looking across towards the sea.

nocomment "Does the RAF have a Sea King up at Valley?"

I was at RAF Valley in June and, yes they do.

"No Comment"

You'll have a full report after the weeks vacation, but be prepared for some lengthy reading as this may consist of a total of five possibly six movements throughout the week !:rolleyes: :zzz:

As for the photos.......can't you read the signs ? Naughty boy ;) :D

Yakkers right, there are often three or four Sea Kings based at Valley due to it being home to 22Sqn (SAR) and the SAR helo training unit.

"Deep C" Yes from what I remember its a good viewing spot from the road above, as for the two Meteors, where they both drone coloured (Red/Yellow) or was one a dark colour, possibly Martin Bakers ???

Neg G

The meteors (I am assuming that is what they were as they were partially obscurred and a long way off) were red and another colour either white or yellow.

DeepC

Unless it was Llanbedrs two Red/Yellow Meteors 'L' and 'Z' basking in the sun, though I'm sure 'L' hasn't flown in years:(

Come on, somebody must have some news on this lovely base :hmm:

Neg G

Visiting Aberporth recently there was a lot of work going on building a business park near to the quaint Terminal, plus a based exec (and I use the word adviseably!) operator trying to drum up business for their Navajo. Adverts for flight s to London hid the fact that they wanted £600 for the charter!

There was a German Lynx there but nothing else that I could see. The local press seemed to be considerably upbeat about its future.

I didn't see any comments about Llanbedr.

Its a pity that Llanbedr isn't located in an area that warrants a Buisness park, but I suppose thats what makes the place so nice :D

The best thing for such a remote airfield next to the sea would be to use it for Target drones & missile practice etc..., but then again up until now every government has agreed with that:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Neg G:(

P.S £600 for the charter Isn't excessive considering the location especially if it was return:p

I think that the biggest risk to Llanbedrs future has yet to be discussed. Technology! Waddington is now a world class unit for Air to Air fighting teaching, and they can do with virtual reality pods on jets what the Strike Command Armanent (sp?) Camp [based at Valley but using the Jindiviks] did with live missiles. Simple fact is that missiles are expensive, and nowadays the only need to fire one is for trials / testing of new and upgraded systems. Torpedoes are already trialed in the US, and it wont be long before the cost savings of closing an air base in lieu of the stateside det every now and then are realised. That DERA run the place is probably the only reason that it is still open, for the MOD are very keen to close a lot of airfields within the next 3 years. Apparently there are over 70 active military airfields in the UK.

I would think that either Llanbedr or Mona will go shortly, unless Carnarfon moved its Ops to the better equiped Llanbedr ie Open a civvie side to the field.

PS

Valley has a Sea King `flight` and is shortly to get SKTU move in from St Mawgan. SARTU use Griffin (Bell412) helicopters.

There may be hope yet. Having heard some rumours from home, followed by seeing a drone at RIAT it seems that there may be some substance to them
£21 million investment puts Wales at heart of UAV sector
I'm presuming that the runway layout at Llanbedr will still make it preferable to Aberporth for launching UAV's. Let's hope it's not just smoke and mirrors.

Neg,

The second Meteor seen would have been Martin Baker's. The airframe life on WK800 is now so limited that Llanbedr's Meteor pilots (or is there now only one?) get their continuation training in the M-B aircraft.

WH453 has not flown for over 10 years, I believe.

I understand that the last Meteor flight will be 1st November or thereabouts.

Ah... Shell Island! Spent many happy days there as a teenager watching trials aeroplanes various.. the first Hunter T8M, early Sea Harrier, Sea Eagle Buccaneer, the first drone Sea Vixen being flown from the ground with an FR Test Pilot on board, the Meteor NF11-and-a half... go a long way to beat the Devon joining via a run-and-break though!

Easy for me... got a lift in during school holidays from my father who was one of those lucky enough to do the flying... sat at home on a sunny summer day, he has a few minutes fuel left after a 'range trip'... cue orange Meteor dipping its wings over our house up in the hills... magic!

I'm sensing a Pprune visit before the flying stops!