BAC/BAe One-Eleven first flight anniversary
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BAC/BAe One-Eleven first flight anniversary
Tomorrow will be the 40th anniversary of the day, 20 August 1963, when the One-Eleven took to the skies for the first time. I had kind of expected to see this discussed here (and sorry if I have missed it), and I certainly believe the anniversary should be noted. A pretty fine aircraft, and a product of that creative 1950s/early 1960s period of British aviation, the One-Eleven's potential was sadly never exploited, despite early sales success in the US. I well remember as a kid the excitement of seeing early One-Elevens operated by British United and British Eagle.
Does anyone have any comments, reflective observations, experiences, pictures etc. that they would like to share ? Any events, even a special flight...?
Does anyone have any comments, reflective observations, experiences, pictures etc. that they would like to share ? Any events, even a special flight...?
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This event will be celebrated tomorrow at Bournemouth by a fly past from 1-11 ZH763 from Boscombe Down. It did two practice runs today.
There is also a private (by invitation only) event at Bournemouth on Saturday in relation to this.
There is also a private (by invitation only) event at Bournemouth on Saturday in relation to this.
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5N-HHH
This 1-11 is in as far as I can ascertain VIP interior and has been a SEN resident for about 3+ years may be longer. Of interest is that the last week or three has seen a bit of activity around it and about it by a number of persons. Rumour has it that it has been sold. Perhaps someone can confirm what is happening with it.
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I worked on the 1-11 in service for a number of years. It has to be said that it could be a pig of an aircraft to work on. It felt that a number of components had the aircraft built around them. The Ground Conditioning Fan, Elevator PCA and the Refuel Valves are but a few.
To see a 500 series 1-11 struggling into the air from BAH made you realise the performance, or lack of it of the aircraft. The Water Injection System could be troublesome (Valve open-water on-hopefully) and you had to be a contortionist to get into the Demin Water tank. Loading the barrels of De-min water into the forward hold for system replenishment down route was also a back breaking exercise.
The Stub Wing Panels were regularly removed for TCV and PRV changes and you had to have your wits about you when changing a CASC unit. A shadow board was required for the different length bolts and a fag paper was always useful when checking the gap on the throttle movement.
Hearing the 'Wheeee' as the CSDS drive sheared or opening the cowls to whack the CSDS PRV to get the engine started were also regular occurences.
Many AOG rescues down route helped pay the mortgage and also meant travelling on a variety of aircraft,(Carvair, Belfast to name a couple). I remember an interesting trip to Turin in a Navajo. Over the Alps on Oxygen sitting in the R/H seat was an interesting experience and not one for the week bladdered.
I remember a Rolls Rep telling me about an operator in the Carribean who had reported power loss on one of its a/c. He went to have a look. He noticed that the Turbine Blades were thinner than they should have been. The reason was found to be that the Operator was using Sea Water for his Water Injection.
The 1-11 was my introduction to a BITE system. It was on the Pneumatic System and I thought it was space Technology when I first saw it (I had previously been working on Britannias).
Whilst working at LGW with an operator who had a fleet of
1-11, a chap used to come and do health checks on the Pneumatic System. A few nights with him was worth weeks in the Classroom. He taught me so much about trouble shooting the system. Perhaps this was the 1-11 in a nutshell. You had to really know what you were doing to maintain it. When it was working well, it was great, but when it broke, oh boy did you know it.
The gap between the Scratch Panels and the window occasionally filled up with a few inches of water. I can remember seeing a pane with about 4 inches of water in it and a passenger had drawn fish on the Scratch Panel.
We had a scare when a passengers foot went though the toilet floor close to control cables. I can also remember a wheels up landing during training at STN, but I will leave that for a pilot to relate. CB 14 if I remember rightly.
I can remember looking for a Hydraulic leak in the MLG Bay. The leak was a fine Skydrol mist with the pumps on. The leak was traced to a block which on examination was found to be of 'local manufacture' during its time in South America. It was mild steel with the unions brazed onto it. A genuine 'bogus part'?
The crews flying the a/c were a mixture of young sprogs from Hamble etc or guys with a plethora of experience. One such person was Dicky Martin. He was one of the most interesting people I have ever met. On landing, we would talk and I would try to find an aircraft he had never flown. I didn't find one. Wherever you are Dicky, God bless.
It was a well built aeroplane, it looked elegant, and I look back on it with mixed emotions. We sometimes complain that the airliners of today are 'sameish', impersonnal and take away an aspect of 'real flying'. Was this the case with the 1-11? Was it an aircraft that had such a charisma? I feel sure that many ex 1-11 people will let us know in this thread.
Regards,
Tempsford
To see a 500 series 1-11 struggling into the air from BAH made you realise the performance, or lack of it of the aircraft. The Water Injection System could be troublesome (Valve open-water on-hopefully) and you had to be a contortionist to get into the Demin Water tank. Loading the barrels of De-min water into the forward hold for system replenishment down route was also a back breaking exercise.
The Stub Wing Panels were regularly removed for TCV and PRV changes and you had to have your wits about you when changing a CASC unit. A shadow board was required for the different length bolts and a fag paper was always useful when checking the gap on the throttle movement.
Hearing the 'Wheeee' as the CSDS drive sheared or opening the cowls to whack the CSDS PRV to get the engine started were also regular occurences.
Many AOG rescues down route helped pay the mortgage and also meant travelling on a variety of aircraft,(Carvair, Belfast to name a couple). I remember an interesting trip to Turin in a Navajo. Over the Alps on Oxygen sitting in the R/H seat was an interesting experience and not one for the week bladdered.
I remember a Rolls Rep telling me about an operator in the Carribean who had reported power loss on one of its a/c. He went to have a look. He noticed that the Turbine Blades were thinner than they should have been. The reason was found to be that the Operator was using Sea Water for his Water Injection.
The 1-11 was my introduction to a BITE system. It was on the Pneumatic System and I thought it was space Technology when I first saw it (I had previously been working on Britannias).
Whilst working at LGW with an operator who had a fleet of
1-11, a chap used to come and do health checks on the Pneumatic System. A few nights with him was worth weeks in the Classroom. He taught me so much about trouble shooting the system. Perhaps this was the 1-11 in a nutshell. You had to really know what you were doing to maintain it. When it was working well, it was great, but when it broke, oh boy did you know it.
The gap between the Scratch Panels and the window occasionally filled up with a few inches of water. I can remember seeing a pane with about 4 inches of water in it and a passenger had drawn fish on the Scratch Panel.
We had a scare when a passengers foot went though the toilet floor close to control cables. I can also remember a wheels up landing during training at STN, but I will leave that for a pilot to relate. CB 14 if I remember rightly.
I can remember looking for a Hydraulic leak in the MLG Bay. The leak was a fine Skydrol mist with the pumps on. The leak was traced to a block which on examination was found to be of 'local manufacture' during its time in South America. It was mild steel with the unions brazed onto it. A genuine 'bogus part'?
The crews flying the a/c were a mixture of young sprogs from Hamble etc or guys with a plethora of experience. One such person was Dicky Martin. He was one of the most interesting people I have ever met. On landing, we would talk and I would try to find an aircraft he had never flown. I didn't find one. Wherever you are Dicky, God bless.
It was a well built aeroplane, it looked elegant, and I look back on it with mixed emotions. We sometimes complain that the airliners of today are 'sameish', impersonnal and take away an aspect of 'real flying'. Was this the case with the 1-11? Was it an aircraft that had such a charisma? I feel sure that many ex 1-11 people will let us know in this thread.
Regards,
Tempsford
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Personally, I love the 1-11. That sound as they start up is just unique!
Living where I do, I've seen some impressive 1-11 flying over the years - a single engine take off that nearly took me off my bike many years ago comes to mind, as does G-ASYD doing trials on a wet runway several years ago. Did anyone ever see G-ASYD at any of the Hurn airshows? The 1-11 is a lot more sprightly than you might imagine when empty!!
Therefore, it is sad to report that I've been told that the last three European Aviation machines, G-AVMT, G-AWYV and G-AZMF are all now to be scrapped. These were the last three European Aviation ones to fly. I'm hoping that this is just a rumour but the source seems pretty certain of his facts.
What chance for one more roar into the sky for these as they head off to preservation elsewhere? (Bournemouth already has a 1-11 preserved.)
Living where I do, I've seen some impressive 1-11 flying over the years - a single engine take off that nearly took me off my bike many years ago comes to mind, as does G-ASYD doing trials on a wet runway several years ago. Did anyone ever see G-ASYD at any of the Hurn airshows? The 1-11 is a lot more sprightly than you might imagine when empty!!
Therefore, it is sad to report that I've been told that the last three European Aviation machines, G-AVMT, G-AWYV and G-AZMF are all now to be scrapped. These were the last three European Aviation ones to fly. I'm hoping that this is just a rumour but the source seems pretty certain of his facts.
What chance for one more roar into the sky for these as they head off to preservation elsewhere? (Bournemouth already has a 1-11 preserved.)
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1-11 LHR
I remember two 1-11s arriving at the engineering base at LHR from South America. They I believe were destined for a new start up airline British Mediterrean (nothing to do with present group) and one was resprayed in a great colour scheme. I hazard a guess that this was some 15-20 years ago.
I remember an engineer showing me the undercarriage which he stated was converted for rough strip landing. Needless to say BA was left with a big bill when the outfit went broke prior to operation. The 1-11 decamped to LTN. Anyone any recollections on who it was and any of the history.
I remember an engineer showing me the undercarriage which he stated was converted for rough strip landing. Needless to say BA was left with a big bill when the outfit went broke prior to operation. The 1-11 decamped to LTN. Anyone any recollections on who it was and any of the history.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Vaguely recall those two, think they came back from Costa Rica or Guatamala. The Guatamalan ones, as I recall, were basically in the Courtline "orange and red" scheme, so presumably they had been acquired after Court went under. Perhaps Dan-Air ended up with them?
Putting my anorak on which i am of course proud to wear, c/n 205,206 and 211 were operated by Court Line and then i think Aviateca of Guatemala.
Tempsford, very much enjoyed your stories, any more please.
Tempsford, very much enjoyed your stories, any more please.
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i can remember at least 14 years ago a cargo version of the bac1-11 which belonged to anglo cargo .this aircraft came into luton whilst i was there ,it was about the same time anglo cargo went bust.the airport impounded the plane and it must have been there for at least 5 months,then suddenly one mornining on my way to work i saw it take off over the m1,
considering it was parked up for so long without any regular checks ,it must have been a brave bunch to fly it out.
that was the only cargo version i have ever seen of the 1-11.
was it a factory cargo version or a modified pax version.
can anyone shed some light.
and where is it now.
considering it was parked up for so long without any regular checks ,it must have been a brave bunch to fly it out.
that was the only cargo version i have ever seen of the 1-11.
was it a factory cargo version or a modified pax version.
can anyone shed some light.
and where is it now.
There are three pax/cargo 1-11's still in regular use by the Royal Airforce of Oman. These are model 475 converted by BAC at Hurn by the addition of a cabin freight door to model 485GD. The aircraft is a hybrid, a 400 series fuselage with 500 series wings and 500 series water injected engines. Also they were fitted with a 'beefed up' undercarriage for landing on prepared 'rough' strips. This resulted in a bulge under the fuselage to take the bigger wheels. The BAC video "Landing In The Rough" shows this aircraft under test extremely well and is well worth watching.
I hope this helps,
CC
I hope this helps,
CC
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My own thoughts on the 1-11 were that they were noisey, dirty and one of the worst aircraft I have ever worked on (I have worked on some crap in my time too!). My old Dad loved them though, he paid his house off on repairing fuel tank leaks on them!!!.
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Sadly even the Omani military 1-11s won't be in service beyond the end of 2003 as I understand.
I wonder if they'll be scrapped? It seems as if the market for used 1-11s is pretty small, especially since the Nigerian crash a while back.
I wonder if they'll be scrapped? It seems as if the market for used 1-11s is pretty small, especially since the Nigerian crash a while back.
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British Mediterranean 1-11's
I think the reference to the two BAC 1-11's of British Mediterranean should be to that of Mediterranean Express who acquired two 1-11's from Faucett of Peru in 1987.
The two aircraft in question were G-AYUW c/n 239 and G-AZUK c/n 241. Both were painted in the company's livery which was a great colour scheme of overall white with a stripe made up of orange, red, yellow and blue running down the side.
G-AYUW was broken up in 1988 and the fuselage transported to Bournemouth for use as a test fuselage for water spray mist trials in the cabin by AIM and G-AZUK was sold to Oriental Airlines of Nigeria as 5N-ECI in 1996.
G-AZUK was one of the BAC company aircraft demonstrators being seen at Farnborough in the seventies.
The two aircraft in question were G-AYUW c/n 239 and G-AZUK c/n 241. Both were painted in the company's livery which was a great colour scheme of overall white with a stripe made up of orange, red, yellow and blue running down the side.
G-AYUW was broken up in 1988 and the fuselage transported to Bournemouth for use as a test fuselage for water spray mist trials in the cabin by AIM and G-AZUK was sold to Oriental Airlines of Nigeria as 5N-ECI in 1996.
G-AZUK was one of the BAC company aircraft demonstrators being seen at Farnborough in the seventies.
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In answer to a couple of questions:
The Brits were with Monarch, Lloyd, Cubana, African Safari, Donalsdon, Aer Turas, AeroCaribbean, Redcoat, Katale, Afrek, Geminair, Invicta, AMAZ and a few more, but that is another story.
The 1-11 was with Dan-Air, BIA, Bavarian, Tarom, Monarch, Anglo Cargo (the reg was G-TOMO after Terry and Maggie Oldham I think), Air Cymru, Court Line, BCal, Laker and again a few more.
The Spey has three engine mounts, the trunnion at the side and two at the top. One of the Top links is connected to a 'banana link'. During one engine change, the tech on the job asked if the mount bolts were in at the top. The mech doing the job replied 'yes'. The Tech thought that the mount bolts had gone in easily, what he did not realise was that the banana link was still clipped into the engine nacelle and the mount bolt was straight into the engine mount and in no way connected to the airframe. After a lot of pushing anf shoving the engine cowls were shut and the a/c duly flew for a couple of days before it was on a check. It was then that it was discoverd that the mount was not connected and the a/c had been flying with only two of the three engine mounts connected.
If the cargo door was not rigged properly it could, when opened run down the door guide tracks on opening and continue to drop onto the tarmac.
When returning from an AOG I was sitting in the centre cabin area where the seats faced each other. Being a bit 'grubby' after changing an Electrical Hydraulic Pump in the MLG Bay the Cabin Crew took pity on me and supplied a couple of cans of beer to a very grateful engineer. On taking a sip of ale, I heard a 'tutting' noise. 'Very odd' I thought until I saw two nuns who were not impressed with me or my drinking habits and who were tutting every time I took a swig.
I was with Dicky Martin who I mentioned in my earlier post in Marseille. We had a while before departure so he said 'there is a really interesting aircraft in the terminal old boy' (he talked like that) and off we went to the terminal to have a look. We must have become too engrossed in this a/c as there was a tannoy stating 'could the First Officer and the Engineer for xxxx airlines please return to their aircraft as it is about to depart'.
One thing that I did get from the 1-11 was mild deafness. In the days before PPE and the like it was not unknown to work on Speys at high power with little or no hearing protection. At high power it felt like the ground was shaking. (This activity did not impress the local residents in the middle of the night either. Sounds that they claimed were the worst were Air Start Units,
1-11 ground runs, Darts and Tynes.) I was pleased when I became a Tech and was up the front running the engines instead, but the damage was done. At a recent medical, the nurse carrying out the hearing test laughed when I told her that she would probably hear the high pitch sounds on the headphones when I couldn't. After the test she was shocked to see that my statement was correct. I know, it was my own stupid fault years ago.
In a strange way I look back and think that although it was very hard work it was also a lot of fun as well. I do consider myself fortunate to have been involved in aviation then, even though it was towards the end of an era where there were so many people who had been brought up on 'real aeroplanes' that you could learn from. If they liked you, they would teach you so much, if they didn't, well you got good at card games and uckers.
The lamp has stopped swinging and that is more than enough from me.
Regards
Temspford
The Brits were with Monarch, Lloyd, Cubana, African Safari, Donalsdon, Aer Turas, AeroCaribbean, Redcoat, Katale, Afrek, Geminair, Invicta, AMAZ and a few more, but that is another story.
The 1-11 was with Dan-Air, BIA, Bavarian, Tarom, Monarch, Anglo Cargo (the reg was G-TOMO after Terry and Maggie Oldham I think), Air Cymru, Court Line, BCal, Laker and again a few more.
The Spey has three engine mounts, the trunnion at the side and two at the top. One of the Top links is connected to a 'banana link'. During one engine change, the tech on the job asked if the mount bolts were in at the top. The mech doing the job replied 'yes'. The Tech thought that the mount bolts had gone in easily, what he did not realise was that the banana link was still clipped into the engine nacelle and the mount bolt was straight into the engine mount and in no way connected to the airframe. After a lot of pushing anf shoving the engine cowls were shut and the a/c duly flew for a couple of days before it was on a check. It was then that it was discoverd that the mount was not connected and the a/c had been flying with only two of the three engine mounts connected.
If the cargo door was not rigged properly it could, when opened run down the door guide tracks on opening and continue to drop onto the tarmac.
When returning from an AOG I was sitting in the centre cabin area where the seats faced each other. Being a bit 'grubby' after changing an Electrical Hydraulic Pump in the MLG Bay the Cabin Crew took pity on me and supplied a couple of cans of beer to a very grateful engineer. On taking a sip of ale, I heard a 'tutting' noise. 'Very odd' I thought until I saw two nuns who were not impressed with me or my drinking habits and who were tutting every time I took a swig.
I was with Dicky Martin who I mentioned in my earlier post in Marseille. We had a while before departure so he said 'there is a really interesting aircraft in the terminal old boy' (he talked like that) and off we went to the terminal to have a look. We must have become too engrossed in this a/c as there was a tannoy stating 'could the First Officer and the Engineer for xxxx airlines please return to their aircraft as it is about to depart'.
One thing that I did get from the 1-11 was mild deafness. In the days before PPE and the like it was not unknown to work on Speys at high power with little or no hearing protection. At high power it felt like the ground was shaking. (This activity did not impress the local residents in the middle of the night either. Sounds that they claimed were the worst were Air Start Units,
1-11 ground runs, Darts and Tynes.) I was pleased when I became a Tech and was up the front running the engines instead, but the damage was done. At a recent medical, the nurse carrying out the hearing test laughed when I told her that she would probably hear the high pitch sounds on the headphones when I couldn't. After the test she was shocked to see that my statement was correct. I know, it was my own stupid fault years ago.
In a strange way I look back and think that although it was very hard work it was also a lot of fun as well. I do consider myself fortunate to have been involved in aviation then, even though it was towards the end of an era where there were so many people who had been brought up on 'real aeroplanes' that you could learn from. If they liked you, they would teach you so much, if they didn't, well you got good at card games and uckers.
The lamp has stopped swinging and that is more than enough from me.
Regards
Temspford
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One-Elevens at LHR
As for two One-Elevens arriving at LHR I feel sure that the two 475s originally delivered to Faucett are the ones in question.
After developing the One-Eleven 500 series BAC were unable to stretch the aircraft further because of thrust limitations, so they reviewed the characteristics of the One-Eleven and came up with the 475 series, using the body of the 200/400 but retaining the extended wing, leading edge and powerplant of the 500 series. This provided an aircraft of 80-seat capacity, able to operate from 4,000 feet strips and ideal for hot and high operations. The 475 was fitted with a larger main wheel undercarriage to give a rough field performance.
The 400/500 series prototype G-ASYD was modified as a 475 (it can be seen in this state at the Brooklands Museum today) and carried out rough field landing trials at Waterbeach. The first two production examples were delivered to Faucett of Peru. Based at Lima, the first aircraft began revenue services on Sept 5, 1971, on key Peruvian domestic routes radiating from the capital to serve seven major cities.
Withdrawn from service in December 1982, both Faucett airliners were flown to Van Nuys, California and put into open store and therefore exposed to the elements. There they remained mouldering and neglected possibly until their ultimate demise. However some five years later, Mediterranean Express, a Luton-based charter line pinpointed them and asked British Airways Engineering to assess the cost of repair and return to the UK. An on-site examination was carried out and the BA engineers report stated matter-of-factly that the dents in the centre section were from “llama strikes” when the aircraft had operated from the unprepared strips.
1,000 hours was spent on refitting ‘G-AZUK (back with its British registration) before it could be ferried to Heathrow and a full overhaul. The test flight with Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Chief Pilot Peter Baker (one time One-Eleven project pilot with BAC) went well and she was awarded her British Certificate of Airworthiness. On June 23, 1987 she uploaded her first paying passengers for Mediterranean Express.
Her sister, the first production 475 G-AYUW was less fortunate, she returned to the UK in November, 1987 but her overhaul was abandoned and she was purchased for spares by British Aerospace. G-AZUK served with Baltic Airlines, Loganair, Ryanair and British Air Ferries, and though there was some discussion by BAe Filton of purchasing her to replace ‘SYD, she joined the exodus to Nigeria.
Stephen Skinner
After developing the One-Eleven 500 series BAC were unable to stretch the aircraft further because of thrust limitations, so they reviewed the characteristics of the One-Eleven and came up with the 475 series, using the body of the 200/400 but retaining the extended wing, leading edge and powerplant of the 500 series. This provided an aircraft of 80-seat capacity, able to operate from 4,000 feet strips and ideal for hot and high operations. The 475 was fitted with a larger main wheel undercarriage to give a rough field performance.
The 400/500 series prototype G-ASYD was modified as a 475 (it can be seen in this state at the Brooklands Museum today) and carried out rough field landing trials at Waterbeach. The first two production examples were delivered to Faucett of Peru. Based at Lima, the first aircraft began revenue services on Sept 5, 1971, on key Peruvian domestic routes radiating from the capital to serve seven major cities.
Withdrawn from service in December 1982, both Faucett airliners were flown to Van Nuys, California and put into open store and therefore exposed to the elements. There they remained mouldering and neglected possibly until their ultimate demise. However some five years later, Mediterranean Express, a Luton-based charter line pinpointed them and asked British Airways Engineering to assess the cost of repair and return to the UK. An on-site examination was carried out and the BA engineers report stated matter-of-factly that the dents in the centre section were from “llama strikes” when the aircraft had operated from the unprepared strips.
1,000 hours was spent on refitting ‘G-AZUK (back with its British registration) before it could be ferried to Heathrow and a full overhaul. The test flight with Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Chief Pilot Peter Baker (one time One-Eleven project pilot with BAC) went well and she was awarded her British Certificate of Airworthiness. On June 23, 1987 she uploaded her first paying passengers for Mediterranean Express.
Her sister, the first production 475 G-AYUW was less fortunate, she returned to the UK in November, 1987 but her overhaul was abandoned and she was purchased for spares by British Aerospace. G-AZUK served with Baltic Airlines, Loganair, Ryanair and British Air Ferries, and though there was some discussion by BAe Filton of purchasing her to replace ‘SYD, she joined the exodus to Nigeria.
Stephen Skinner
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can any one remember a RR tay re-engined bac1-11.i seem to remember seeing one at the farnbrough airshow.i think dee-howard engineering in the states were trying to market the re-engined bac1-11.
i have not seen any re-engined bac1-11,only those european airways ones with the big hush kits.
i have not seen any re-engined bac1-11,only those european airways ones with the big hush kits.
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I am sure you are correct as I remember a picture of a 1-11 abandoned at the back of a hangar somewhere in the USA with a brief story that funding had dried up and the a/c had been impounded. That has to be probably 10+ years ago. I believe that the re-engine plus improvments had failed as there was a requirement for a minimum of 30 airframes.