Hawker Hunter through Tower Bridge
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Gents,
At Tangmere museum 2 ' simulators ' are set up with a choice of flights, using specially written appropriate aircraft ( Lysander, Speed Hunter WB188, etc, and the most popular choice ; ' The Tower Bridge Challenge '.
A copy of the painting & brief description of Mr.Pollock's ' feat ' ( I am not a fan, the consequences...surprised he wasn't jailed, but as I heard it he was hoping for a Courts Martial to air his views, but the RAF just chucked him on medical grounds, a neat side-step) is alongside, and one can have a go at flying through the bridge.
One's go begins at about 2-3,000' over the eastern Thames estuary, a few miles but within sight of the bridge.
If you're quick ( the thing is on a 3-4 min timer ) you can get through v. fast, loop, roll off the top and land at London City Airport - it's based upon MS Flight Sim 2004 - or go through , fast, head about 292 and land at Northolt.
You can buy the add-on software at the museum ( £10 ) but will need F.S.2004 as well.
You can also beat up the mil' dome ( unfortunately not strafe ) and ' do ' Dartford bridge - the whole secret to getting through the bridge of course is lining up as early as possible; those who try any last minute correction inevitably come a cropper.
Al Pollock lives nearby and drops in now & again; he can't repeat his performance !
NB Check museum is open, they have a winter shut down; 01243 790090.
DZ
At Tangmere museum 2 ' simulators ' are set up with a choice of flights, using specially written appropriate aircraft ( Lysander, Speed Hunter WB188, etc, and the most popular choice ; ' The Tower Bridge Challenge '.
A copy of the painting & brief description of Mr.Pollock's ' feat ' ( I am not a fan, the consequences...surprised he wasn't jailed, but as I heard it he was hoping for a Courts Martial to air his views, but the RAF just chucked him on medical grounds, a neat side-step) is alongside, and one can have a go at flying through the bridge.
One's go begins at about 2-3,000' over the eastern Thames estuary, a few miles but within sight of the bridge.
If you're quick ( the thing is on a 3-4 min timer ) you can get through v. fast, loop, roll off the top and land at London City Airport - it's based upon MS Flight Sim 2004 - or go through , fast, head about 292 and land at Northolt.
You can buy the add-on software at the museum ( £10 ) but will need F.S.2004 as well.
You can also beat up the mil' dome ( unfortunately not strafe ) and ' do ' Dartford bridge - the whole secret to getting through the bridge of course is lining up as early as possible; those who try any last minute correction inevitably come a cropper.
Al Pollock lives nearby and drops in now & again; he can't repeat his performance !
NB Check museum is open, they have a winter shut down; 01243 790090.
DZ
Last edited by Double Zero; 5th Dec 2009 at 18:52.
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"What on earth is the matter with the youth of today? In my day we used to fly whole squadrons of aeroplanes through bridges. At Rouen all of No. 1 Squadron Hurricanes flew under the transporter bridge one behind the other." G. Plinston (Sqn/Ldr Ret'd)
Flight International (April '68)
Flight International (April '68)
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I am told that at the last second Al Pollock didn't think he'd allowed for his tailfin; he was lucky, but I agree it's not particularly difficult for a good service pilot to fly through Tower Bridge.
What I do find unacceptable is the huge risk to civilians & architecture; only a sneeze from him or engine, the slightest distraction would have ended in tragedy.
I have attended a test range rather frequently where ' beat-up's ' are the norm, seen an A-10 inverted at less than wingspan height, a Sea Harrier at gable height & high speed between hangars, and a Tornado F3 take off, gear up, then down again, full power towards the hangars; the pilot yanked on the stick, and the thing pointed up but just skidded along, with the afterburners REALLY 10' or so ( less if anything, even experienced people were running ) above the grass.
Eventually it decided to climb, barely missing the hangars - if it hadn't, only a few semi-military personnel would have been killed while the occupants could eject, so that's alright then.
The Tower Bridge episode was stupid to say the least.
What I do find unacceptable is the huge risk to civilians & architecture; only a sneeze from him or engine, the slightest distraction would have ended in tragedy.
I have attended a test range rather frequently where ' beat-up's ' are the norm, seen an A-10 inverted at less than wingspan height, a Sea Harrier at gable height & high speed between hangars, and a Tornado F3 take off, gear up, then down again, full power towards the hangars; the pilot yanked on the stick, and the thing pointed up but just skidded along, with the afterburners REALLY 10' or so ( less if anything, even experienced people were running ) above the grass.
Eventually it decided to climb, barely missing the hangars - if it hadn't, only a few semi-military personnel would have been killed while the occupants could eject, so that's alright then.
The Tower Bridge episode was stupid to say the least.
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Well said newt! 'Twas also before PC came along.
I take it DZ that you have made your views known to 'that chap' who occasionally frequents your museum and has a go on your simulator? As with many aspects of aviation, past and present, there is always a very thin hard line between authorised and unauthorised activity; and whilst acknowledging your altruistic view, there is also another which recognises spirited endeavour. Stand back and observe much of that authorised activity wherein only a sneeze from man or machine or the slightest distraction might end in tragedy, whatever the safeguards. I wager that you have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy such events, auth'd or not. In aviation, ill-disciplined behaviour warrants penalisation - but, along with my betters, I for one will always be happily fallible to turning a blind eye towards those who are holier than me! 
only a sneeze from him or engine, the slightest distraction would have ended in tragedy.
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At or around the same time ( April 68 ) as the Tower Bridge event, was the 1 Sqdn ( F Troop ) 50th birthday celebrations.
At that time I was a J/T Radar Tech on XXX Sqdn Lightning 3s at Wattisham.
I was standing on the wing of an F3 doing the Radar turnaround service which involved the replacing of the VCR Cartridge in the Visual recorder in the Spine. I was on the line facing east when a Hunter appeared very low and fast and trashed the line of 111 and 29 Sqdn A/C at my head height. As the aeroplane passed he opened his dive brake and dumped leaflets all over both lines.
The leaflet read on one side 1 Sqdn 50th birthday, on the other, a picture of a Hunter coming out of the Sun with the Quotation ' Its the ONE in the Sun that gets you'.
Later that evening I do remember packing loo paper into the dive brakes of 2 F3's who if i remember correctly returned the complement at West Rayham.
Happy Days ***
At that time I was a J/T Radar Tech on XXX Sqdn Lightning 3s at Wattisham.
I was standing on the wing of an F3 doing the Radar turnaround service which involved the replacing of the VCR Cartridge in the Visual recorder in the Spine. I was on the line facing east when a Hunter appeared very low and fast and trashed the line of 111 and 29 Sqdn A/C at my head height. As the aeroplane passed he opened his dive brake and dumped leaflets all over both lines.
The leaflet read on one side 1 Sqdn 50th birthday, on the other, a picture of a Hunter coming out of the Sun with the Quotation ' Its the ONE in the Sun that gets you'.
Later that evening I do remember packing loo paper into the dive brakes of 2 F3's who if i remember correctly returned the complement at West Rayham.
Happy Days ***
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At a more sedate pace, I was told that Sqdn Ldr AA (Charlie) Rollo took his favorite C150 under the M62 bridge at Barton early one morning just before he retired from training tyros at the Lancs Aero Club.
It has a large opening over the Manchester Ship Canal so not a huge test of skill and courage at 90 kts, but I do so hope the story is true.
Occasionally, there needs to be some fun and naughtiness in life.
Sir George Cayley
It has a large opening over the Manchester Ship Canal so not a huge test of skill and courage at 90 kts, but I do so hope the story is true.
Occasionally, there needs to be some fun and naughtiness in life.
Sir George Cayley
Jindabyne - well said, sir. Tis a while since we last flew a Hunter together!
There is a big difference between doing something unsafe and breaking rules. You can stick within the rules and be unsafe, you can break the rules and be safe (and spectacular!). One of the arts of display flying is to make the easy look spectacular and the difficult look safe. There is also a lot of discussion currently on-going about a hypothesis that pilots who stick in the middle of the envelope may well come unstuck when something untowards happens as they have a very small comfort zone and a lack of familiarity with unusual situations. However, someone who pushes themselves to their and the aircraft's limits will have far better experience to fall back on when things go wrong.
And as for Al Pollock and Tower bridge, that is one of those events that I wish I could have done!
There is a big difference between doing something unsafe and breaking rules. You can stick within the rules and be unsafe, you can break the rules and be safe (and spectacular!). One of the arts of display flying is to make the easy look spectacular and the difficult look safe. There is also a lot of discussion currently on-going about a hypothesis that pilots who stick in the middle of the envelope may well come unstuck when something untowards happens as they have a very small comfort zone and a lack of familiarity with unusual situations. However, someone who pushes themselves to their and the aircraft's limits will have far better experience to fall back on when things go wrong.
And as for Al Pollock and Tower bridge, that is one of those events that I wish I could have done!
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LOMCEVAK
Excellent post.
Good to see informed opinions being posted to redress the balance.
Agree with you about Al Pollock's feat although, in my case, it's one of those events that I wish I could have seen. (Done, only in my dreams.)
Double Zero
Jailed? 
I would have regarded it as an honour to represent him FOC had there been a need, and am confident he would not have gone to jail.
Are you, or have you ever been, a pilot?
Don't be offended by the question; I'm just curious given the very strong opinions you express.
BTW, LOMCEVAK knows just a bit about being an RAF Test Pilot, operational flying and displaying flying.
FL
Excellent post.
Good to see informed opinions being posted to redress the balance.
Agree with you about Al Pollock's feat although, in my case, it's one of those events that I wish I could have seen. (Done, only in my dreams.)
Double Zero
surprised he wasn't jailed
I would have regarded it as an honour to represent him FOC had there been a need, and am confident he would not have gone to jail.
not an official pilot
Don't be offended by the question; I'm just curious given the very strong opinions you express.
BTW, LOMCEVAK knows just a bit about being an RAF Test Pilot, operational flying and displaying flying.
FL
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DZ
Well, did you?
Of interest, were you ever in Gib?
I take it DZ that you have made your views known to 'that chap' who occasionally frequents your museum and has a go on your simulator?
Of interest, were you ever in Gib?
Last edited by jindabyne; 13th Dec 2009 at 11:46.
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LOMCEVAK
D*** old chap, that was just a tad over 29 years ago, and I can well recall our trip up to Lossie - but can you tell me why I find it increasingly difficult to remember what I did yesterday!!
D*** old chap, that was just a tad over 29 years ago, and I can well recall our trip up to Lossie - but can you tell me why I find it increasingly difficult to remember what I did yesterday!!
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Why do I get the impression I'm being ganged up upon by a few retrospective heroes?
If you are able to examine dispassionately your comments, you will find the answer.
And your reference to 'retrospective heroes' on this forum is, I suggest, not worthy of someone that is privileged to be asociated with Tangmere and those others, well-known to some who post here, that are part of the place.
Great!! For once I agree with Jindabyne!
Deeply offended by the term "retrospective hero" as I suspect are several others on this thread!
Maybe PPRuNe Pop would like to direct DZ to a few more pofiles he has missed?
Deeply offended by the term "retrospective hero" as I suspect are several others on this thread!
Maybe PPRuNe Pop would like to direct DZ to a few more pofiles he has missed?
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jindabyne,
I think I can help you out! Its called getting old, but your mate, and mine, never looks as though he ever going to get old. 
D*** old chap, that was just a tad over 29 years ago, and I can well recall our trip up to Lossie - but can you tell me why I find it increasingly difficult to remember what I did yesterday!!
DZ,
It appears that you have, quite understandably, been deeply affected by one display accident involving a test pilot. However, you do not seem to have a great breadth of experience and there are considerations that you have not addressed.
I can assure you that there are many test pilots who are involved in display flying and many more who would like to be. What you need to realise is that they, like me, display as a hobby and not solely as part of their professional duties. However, when their employer needs a pilot to perform a display they are a natural choice because they already have the requisite skill sets.
Where a problem may exist is when a flight test organisation decides that they need an aircraft displayed for marketing purposes and they nominate a pilot who has no previous display experience to work up and perform the display. I have always felt that there are some interesting risks associate with this case that need careful mitigation. I have seen some excellent displays developed in this way but I know of accidents that have occurred also. In addition to the skills of the display pilot is the experience of the display work-up supervisor. Using a CTP who has no display experience to work up a new display pilot is not smart. However, the British military are very bad in this respect also as they often consider aircrew promoted to Wing Commander to be instant experts in supervising displays even if they have no display experience themselves.
To return to my previous end note regarding my wish to have flown through Tower Bridge, I wish that I could have planned and executed the task in a controlled fashion, much as bridge fly-throughs for several films have been done. But would I have vented my anger by doing it as Al did? No, although I did fancy supersonic under the Severn Bridge in the F4!
It appears that you have, quite understandably, been deeply affected by one display accident involving a test pilot. However, you do not seem to have a great breadth of experience and there are considerations that you have not addressed.
I can assure you that there are many test pilots who are involved in display flying and many more who would like to be. What you need to realise is that they, like me, display as a hobby and not solely as part of their professional duties. However, when their employer needs a pilot to perform a display they are a natural choice because they already have the requisite skill sets.
Where a problem may exist is when a flight test organisation decides that they need an aircraft displayed for marketing purposes and they nominate a pilot who has no previous display experience to work up and perform the display. I have always felt that there are some interesting risks associate with this case that need careful mitigation. I have seen some excellent displays developed in this way but I know of accidents that have occurred also. In addition to the skills of the display pilot is the experience of the display work-up supervisor. Using a CTP who has no display experience to work up a new display pilot is not smart. However, the British military are very bad in this respect also as they often consider aircrew promoted to Wing Commander to be instant experts in supervising displays even if they have no display experience themselves.
To return to my previous end note regarding my wish to have flown through Tower Bridge, I wish that I could have planned and executed the task in a controlled fashion, much as bridge fly-throughs for several films have been done. But would I have vented my anger by doing it as Al did? No, although I did fancy supersonic under the Severn Bridge in the F4!
When doing air tests on the VC10K from Scrapheap Challenge, StAthan, I often wondered about that new Severn bridge.......
An old Vampire QFI once admitted that the Clifton suspension bridge was considered a rite of passage by most of his students.
A fellow UAS QFI was pinched for flying under some bridge in Germany back in the 1950s in a Venom; unfortunately bang to rights as he was identified by his bright red bonedome by a witness standing on the bridge looking down at him!
Re. the 'oomber Bridge, wasn't the Barratts' Homes Jet Ranger pinched for flying under that soon after it opened?
An old Vampire QFI once admitted that the Clifton suspension bridge was considered a rite of passage by most of his students.
A fellow UAS QFI was pinched for flying under some bridge in Germany back in the 1950s in a Venom; unfortunately bang to rights as he was identified by his bright red bonedome by a witness standing on the bridge looking down at him!
Re. the 'oomber Bridge, wasn't the Barratts' Homes Jet Ranger pinched for flying under that soon after it opened?
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BEags,
I believe there was only one attempt to hack the Clifton bridge in a jet aircraft. That was in 1957 by a Fg Off Crossley from 501 Sn (RAuxAF). His Vampire sadly impacted Leigh Woods in the gorge, just beyond the bridge; apparently nobody was dogging among the trees at the time, so all was well DZ.
I believe there was only one attempt to hack the Clifton bridge in a jet aircraft. That was in 1957 by a Fg Off Crossley from 501 Sn (RAuxAF). His Vampire sadly impacted Leigh Woods in the gorge, just beyond the bridge; apparently nobody was dogging among the trees at the time, so all was well DZ.