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Old 7th Jan 2024, 15:51
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
I remember the Southern DC-9. Surprised these aircraft weren't UK registered while leased, was there a reason for that?
I think the CAA needed a stall warning upgrade and stick pusher added for UK 🇬🇧 registered
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 15:52
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After the stint at LPL N48075 spent some time based at BHX operating BHX-BRU-BHX-FRA-BHX-BRU-BHX daily Mon-Fri, can't recall how it was employed at the weekend, but I assume plying between JER and numerous UK airports.

The original DC9-15 N65358 eventually (presumably after mods to satisfy the CAA) became G-BMAA but prior to that was operating on the US register for some time, I assume using American crews?
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 16:04
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
After the stint at LPL N48075 spent some time based at BHX operating BHX-BRU-BHX-FRA-BHX-BRU-BHX daily Mon-Fri, can't recall how it was employed at the weekend, but I assume plying between JER and numerous UK airports.

The original DC9-15 N65358 eventually (presumably after mods to satisfy the CAA) became G-BMAA but prior to that was operating on the US register for some time, I assume using American crews?
N65358 was BMAs first DC 9 and she was firstly G BFIH. Dove Dale
Iirc we didn't have any USA 🇺🇸 crews flying either of the N reg 9s.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s the baby 9s flew mainly LHR MME LPL or LGW BFS
plus EMA BRU FRA
JER of course every summer weekends from EMA BHX LTN LPL MME and others

Plus summer night flights to PMI ALC RMI GRO PSA IBZ from MME LPL BHX EMA

Also Lourdes flights often out of LPL to Tarbes for Cathedral Tours
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 18:26
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Originally Posted by rog747
N65358 was BMAs first DC 9 and she was firstly G BFIH. Dove Dale
Iirc we didn't have any USA 🇺🇸 crews flying either of the N reg 9s.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s the baby 9s flew mainly LHR MME LPL or LGW BFS
plus EMA BRU FRA
JER of course every summer weekends from EMA BHX LTN LPL MME and others

Plus summer night flights to PMI ALC RMI GRO PSA IBZ from MME LPL BHX EMA

Also Lourdes flights often out of LPL to Tarbes for Cathedral Tours
As usual I always enjoy reading your invaluable information and personal insights.

I don't want to thread drift.

After reading your previous post's I had a thought. Starting a thread regarding the evolution of service at LHR through the decades would make for an interesting read.

I'm not quite sure as to when or what year BMA initially started operating from LHR.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 20:05
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Just attempting to steer the thread back from British Midland to Airways Cymru (I know there is a link)! Both the 1-11s were designated '304AX'. I guess the 04 was something to do with British Eagle but any clues as to AX ?
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 20:14
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest
Just attempting to steer the thread back from British Midland to Airways Cymru (I know there is a link)! Both the 1-11s were designated '304AX'. I guess the 04 was something to do with British Eagle but any clues as to AX ?
Regarding the BAC 1-11.

I wonder if the BAC 1-11 had more designations attached to it than any other British built commercial aircraft.🤔
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 21:02
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest
Both the 1-11s were designated '304AX'. I guess the 04 was something to do with British Eagle but any clues as to AX ?
MODEL NUMBER AND CUSTOMER CODE
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 06:58
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Originally Posted by thnarg
Much obliged.

Last edited by Mooncrest; 8th Jan 2024 at 10:13.
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 07:15
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
After the stint at LPL N48075 spent some time based at BHX operating BHX-BRU-BHX-FRA-BHX-BRU-BHX daily Mon-Fri, can't recall how it was employed at the weekend, but I assume plying between JER and numerous UK airports.

The original DC9-15 N65358 eventually (presumably after mods to satisfy the CAA) became G-BMAA but prior to that was operating on the US register for some time, I assume using American crews?
British crews with FAA licence validation
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 10:06
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
Regarding the BAC 1-11.

I wonder if the BAC 1-11 had more designations attached to it than any other British built commercial aircraft.🤔
Although the One-Eleven had separate designations for each customer, these didn't give any real indication of differences (or similarities) between them, which became relevant once they were moved on secondhand, and some carriers refitted aircraft to a common standard.

The BEA 500-series fleet were notably oddball, having less range and completely different instrumentation. This had been done to make them consistent with the Trident, but among other things the flight deck switches went the opposite way to other One-Elevens. This was sufficiently a concern to the CAA that when B Cal was merged into BA in 1988, with a substantial "normal" One-Eleven fleet, they were required to keep them separated, with different crew qualifications (possibly engineers as well), which was maintained to the end of their service. The BA standard ones were kept at Heathrow and Manchester, the onetime B Cal fleet at Gatwick and Birmingham.

Did we mention another Cymru One-Eleven, G-AXMU, which they leased through 1984 from British Island while waiting for G-WLAD to come over from Quebecair ? Here it is, BIA fuselage colours, Cymru tail.

G-AXMU Airways International Cymru BAC 1-11-432FD One-Eleven Photo by PEDRO ARAGÃO | ID 958094 | Planespotters.net
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 10:19
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AXMU doesn't look half bad here. Her next lease was to Air UK in 1986, along with her chum AXOX.
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 14:21
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British Eagle were the 2nd UK airline to introduce the BAC 1-11 in May 1966 for both Scheduled Domestic, and International services including Liverpool Newquay Glasgow Luxembourg Dinard La Baule Perpignan Gerona Ibiza Palma Pisa Rimini Tunis and Djerba, in addition to IT Package Holiday charter flights for Tour Operators, such as in-house Lunn Poly and Everyman.

Although they operated a total of 7 BAC 1-11's during their service at least 1 or 2 were out on leases to either KLM SAS or Swissair.
The company initially leased two new 79 seat Series 207AJs from Zambia Airways from May 1966 to December 1967 as G-ATTP and G-ATVH.
This pair did not have the Forward Airstairs option, unlike the rest of the new fleet.
Three new Series 301AGs G-ATPJ/PK/PL were soon to follow in June and July 1966 on lease from the Kuwait Finance Company, being built for Kuwait Airways but NTU.
G-ATPK was the first jet aircraft to fly into Innsbruck.
Two Series 304AXs G-ATPH/PI were ordered new by EG with 84 seat single class interiors and were delivered in April and May 1967, raising the fleet total to seven aircraft.

They all had names highlighting the BAC 1-11 Super Jet age -
G-ATPH - Salute
G-ATPI - Supreme
G-ATPJ - Stalwart
G-ATPK - Spur
G-ATPL - Superb
G-ATTP - Swift
G-ATVH - Serene


The 207AJ series were ordered and built for Central African Airways Corporation in Southern Rhodesia (that would eventually morph into Zambia Airways)
CAAC ordered the aircraft on 26th September 1962 but although completed in the company colours, they were not delivered following the Unilateral Declaration of Independence by Rhodesia on 11th November 1965.
This resulted in the refusal of an export licence following an international trade embargo.
The order was taken over by Zambia Airways Corporation Ltd. These were delivered in April 1966 but immediately leased to British Eagle International Airways Ltd after one of the aircraft was flown to Zambia for one week in May 1966 for a promotional visit.
On completion of the lease, the aircraft were repainted in full Zambia Airways colours and flown to Zambia in mid December 1967.
The aircraft were fitted with uprated Rolls-Royce Spey Mk.511-14 engines with provision for water injection, the only Series 200s so built for airline operation.


In 1968 the BAC 1-11 was possibly the most popular package holiday charter jet seen at European and Mediterranean Airports.
British United, British Eagle, Channel, Laker, and Autair international all flew the new Jets, together with Germany's Bavaria Flug.

Almost 20 years later Airways International Cymru would still be flying 2 of the above 1-11's.
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Old 9th Jan 2024, 19:38
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...not to mention that the 1-11-207s ATTP and ATVH had long service careers with Dan-Air as did the trio of ex-Kuwait/Eagle 1-11-301s. G-YMRU made it into the Dan-Air fleet for one summer (as G-BPNX) still in basic Airways International colours. I'm not sure why they bothered re-registering it to avoid liens when the thing was still painted in pretty recognisable Airways International scheme!
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Old 9th Jan 2024, 19:51
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest
AXMU doesn't look half bad here. Her next lease was to Air UK in 1986, along with her chum AXOX.
In 1988 flew on both of these while they were back with BIA. On the inside at least MU was top notch in a smart beige/pink look which seemed to be the way BIA were going with uniforms etc. OX on the other hand was still in Psychedelic orange and brown from the 60’s which was a bit hard going on the eye and the big black nose tip didn’t make it any more attractive outside!
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Old 9th Jan 2024, 21:59
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Originally Posted by GBYAJ
In 1988 flew on both of these while they were back with BIA. On the inside at least MU was top notch in a smart beige/pink look which seemed to be the way BIA were going with uniforms etc. OX on the other hand was still in Psychedelic orange and brown from the 60’s which was a bit hard going on the eye and the big black nose tip didn’t make it any more attractive outside!
Both AXMU and AXOX were originally new to Bahamas Airways, albeit back in 1969, and may have carried elements of a "Caribbean" colour scheme forward with them. They were orange and turquoise on the outside. They were not bought, they were BAC lease aircraft pending building of ordered series 500 aircraft to the airline, and subsequently worked through various operators, particularly AXMU, for whom Cymru was its 9th operator in about 15 years. I wonder who the owner actually was by this time, whether it was still leased from BAC.
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Old 17th Jan 2024, 19:54
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It's just occurred to me that the 1-11 Airways Cymru leased from BIA bore more than a passing resemblance to a Cambrian 1-11 circa 1969.
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Old 18th Jan 2024, 15:18
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G-AXOX was the first jet operated by Gulf Air, and was based in Bahrain in 1969-70. Had this aircraft first gone to the Bahamas?
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Old 18th Jan 2024, 19:59
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Originally Posted by kenparry
G-AXOX was the first jet operated by Gulf Air, and was based in Bahrain in 1969-70. Had this aircraft first gone to the Bahamas?
Bahamasair 1968
Gulf Air 1969
British Island Airways 1975
Air UK 1978
British Island Airways 1980
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 01:04
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
As usual I always enjoy reading your invaluable information and personal insights.

I don't want to thread drift.

After reading your previous post's I had a thought. Starting a thread regarding the evolution of service at LHR through the decades would make for an interesting read.

I'm not quite sure as to when or what year BMA initially started operating from LHR.
November 1st 1969
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 09:08
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Originally Posted by kenparry
G-AXOX was the first jet operated by Gulf Air, and was based in Bahrain in 1969-70. Had this aircraft first gone to the Bahamas?
G-AXOX was initially part of the BAC "lease fleet", supplied new to Bahamas Airways as their first to tide them over until their first, ordered -500 series was ready. Doesn't seem to have had a UK registration at this stage but went straight onto the Bahamas register. It came back, and then went on to Gulf Air, still in the era when Gulf registered all their aircraft in London, where it spent nearly 10 years, being re-registered locally along the way, before coming back to the UK and resuming that previous G- registration which Gulf had got for it.

If you go to the Gulf Air museum in Sharjah (15 minutes down the road from Dubai DXB) you will find all the old aircraft in their very nice exhibition they have there are G-reg.
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