Pilatus/Britten-Norman aeroplanes

[treadigraph]

Ah, the days before Google Earth!

[dixi188]

Originally Posted by Herod

dixi188. Have you a date for that incident? A colleague was well known for flying low enough to get wave-lift off the sea. That's less than half a wingspan I believe. Years later I spoke to someone who was offered a lift from Aberdeen to Norwich. He said they had to climb to cross the Norfolk coast!!

The story related to me was as follows.
The single pilot operation was a newspaper flight SEN-AMS-SEN. The pilot fell asleep and the aircraft descended and bounced off the sea losing one undercarriage leg. The pilot awoke and flew on to make an emergency landing at STN.
IIRC the pilot later flew the F27 for Channex.
Just found this but can't post a link. G-BCCU 1st September 1986. AAIB report 10/86
Dixi.

Just seen Treadigraph has posted the link.

[old,not bold]

My memory of the BN2A Islander was a recommendation in the conclusion of a report of its evaluation by Abu Dhabi Defence Force which said that in the event of engine failure, due to overheating of the remaining engine at max continuous power (needed to maintain altitude) the aircraft should be landed within a few minutes on the first available suitable piece of desert. This applied at any OAT or payload. I think the evaluation was on the Defender version. However, the Gulf Air fleet operated satisfactorily under normal civil rules in the '70s. I don't remember any engine failures, but that doesn't mean there weren't any....

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

[POBJOY]

Performance v all up weight

Originally Posted by old,not bold

My memory of the BN2A Islander was a recommendation in the conclusion of a report of its evaluation by Abu Dhabi Defence Force which said that in the event of engine failure, due to overheating of the remaining engine at max continuous power (needed to maintain altitude) the aircraft should be landed within a few minutes on the first available suitable piece of desert. This applied at any OAT or payload. I think the evaluation was on the Defender version. However, the Gulf Air fleet operated satisfactorily under normal civil rules in the '70s. I don't remember any engine failures, but that doesn't mean there weren't any....

Even in the UK a standard BN2B could struggle to pass its single engine climb test at max weight. It needed the extra bit of flap setting to clear it to 6600. Fine in cool air and no turbulence but at low level with moderate gusts the VSI seemed glued to zero or below. Although it looked like a Transit truck its performance at max weight on one was marginal which was not surprising, and the line jockeys doing base and IR tests were used to it being empty during training. Prob less of an issue up north with Loganair because of the lower air temps. Having said all that the basic lycoming 540 was reliable.

[dixi188]

I remember being observer on quite a few C of A renewal air tests in the 1970s and 80s. An Islander ballasted to Max TO weight would loose a couple of hundred feet in the 5 min. single engine climb but still meet the performance graph. Probably started at about 6000ft.

[stevef]

If I remember rightly, the tip-tanked Islanders gained another 20 feet per minute on a single-engined climb due to the extended wingspan. It's not exactly a slippery aerofoil with all its upper surface 'scab' access panels.

[POBJOY]

As I remember the original design intended to use two 180 HP engines. In practice the product that we ended up with was a sturdy practical machine that could move 9 pax for short distances (with bags). However when selling an aircraft the bean counters need to be convinced of payload, and hence the 'squeezing' starts to get it through the performance system. With the Islander you need an up to date weight report and use the WAT info in the flight manual. Armed thus you can then tell 'ops' how much load can be taken, remembering that the 'performance' will have been undertaken in perfect conditions by an experienced TP. If the weather is c..p then you can make a Pilots decision to ensure it will climb on one.

[Asturias56]

Yes - weighing passengers before takeoff seems to have been a necessity - or shall we say a very wise precaution..

[Herod]

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

[POBJOY]

Soft and Soggy (not to mention slopes)

Originally Posted by Herod

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

Another factor that has to be taken into account was the 'runway' or to be more precise if it was grass how wet or soft it was. No real performance figs for this so one started with a low load and went from there. Ops hated this but it kept us as safe as it could be, and out of the hedge.

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by Herod

IIRC, at least in the mid-70s, the CAA required pax to be weighed on aircraft with less than 12 seats. The Tri was allowed to use standard weights.

We were on a Tri charter out of Southampton with Aurigny in the late 80's and we were all weighed and organised by size - but I guess the reason may have been there were a lot of kids so it was balance rather than load that concerned them

[dixi188]

It was amazing how heavy some lady's handbags were when they got on the scales.

[ORAC]

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/25milli...-at-bembridge/

$25 MILLION DEAL WILL SEE 10 NEW ISLANDER AIRCRAFT BUILT AT BEMBRIDGE

Australian Air Charter Operator Torres Strait Air has indicated that it will order 10 new Islander aircraft from Britten Norman as part of a 5-year fleet renewal programme valued at $25million – and the aircraft will be built here on the Isle of Wight.

Torres Strait Air’s fleet of 7 existing Britten-Norman Islanders form the backbone of the local community and its economy, operating vital sub-regional air transport services across Torres Strait and Cape York Peninsula.

The 10 new aircraft will be amongst the 1st to be produced from the UK manufacturer’s new production line at Bembridge Airport. In June, Britten-Norman announced the repatriation and onshoring of its entire production line of new aircraft to Bembridge, as previously reported by Island Echo.

It was also reported last month that Spirit Air India have ordered 6 Islanders, also to be built at Bembridge. It means a minimum of 16 Islanders are due to be built at Bembridge in the near future, with final assembly taking place at Lee-on-Solent…….

The forthcoming Islander models boast a range of upgrades, including full IFR glass cockpit technology, window seating for all passengers, enlarged and improved baggage access, and a higher All Up Mass compared to their earlier counterparts.

[India Four Two]

and a higher All Up Mass compared to their earlier counterparts.

​​​​​​​How are they going to manage that? New engines?

[ORAC]

How are they going to manage that? New engines?

https://britten-norman.com/britten-n...ucts/islander/

“The aircraft can be equipped with a variety of engine configurations including Lycoming 260hp normally aspirated piston and 300hp fuel injected piston and Rolls Royce 320hp or 400hp turboprop.”

BN2T-4S - RR Turbine:

MTOW: 8500lb (3855kg)

MLW: 8500lb (3855kg)

MZFW: 8300lb (3764kg)……

[Herod]

So there is some good news today. British aircraft being built again.

[stevef]

I trust they've redesigned the elevator trim rod attachment by now. The Service Bulletins on that came out before the Magna Carta...

[ViscountFan]

I flew in them a few times between Jersey and Alderney back in the 1970s. As far as I can recall, passengers weren't weighed, although the pilot did tell people where to sit. Strange how the one sitting next to him was always an attractive female with a short skirt, and good legs. Unfortunately, I didn't qualify under any of these criteria!

[70 Mustang]

reasonable to me!

Indicates great perception, good health, quick thinking, and excellent situational awareness!

Vital requirements in pilots of such 'marginal' aircraft!

😀