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Strutter

Old 30th Dec 2022, 14:30
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Strutter

For some reason I hadn't noticed that a replica Great War aeroplane is being built in Scotland until it was featured on BBC TV Bews today.
I'm old enough to have some idea of the types that were in service even though that was 20 years before my time and I'd never heard of a Sopwith "Strutter" before.
What I have heard of is the Sopwith "1 Strutter" which I expect was named after an unusual arrangement of struts in the wing installation. Perhaps someone can explain what a "strutter" is supposed to be. Am I alone in being irritated by it being called that?.
From what little we saw on the News it has a nice post-period radial engine with self-starter instead of the original's hand-swung rotary which may be a necessary mod. these days.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 15:01
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Why should you be irritated by 'Strutter' Allan ??
Both 'Strutter' and '1 Strutter' were used as an unofficial designation

Sopwith Two seater was its official RFC Designation (amongst others )
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 15:03
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Still on the beeb.
Good luck to them , I hope it flies soon.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 15:07
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When flying from ships, the type was known as the 'Ship’s Strutter' and used either a standard wheeled undercarriage or a specially designed skid. It was launched off a platform fitted to the forward end of the ship or sometime later, a gun turret.
​​​​​​​Presumably if the engine was misfiring it would have been called the 'Stutter'
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 15:45
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Originally Posted by Allan Lupton View Post
What I have heard of is the Sopwith "1 Strutter" which I expect was named after an unusual arrangement of struts in the wing installation. Perhaps someone can explain what a "strutter" is supposed to be.
I think you are looking for meaning where none exists - "1 Strutter" was indeed a reference to the upper wing being attached by a combination of long and short struts, no more than that. I suspect that the unofficial name proved more convenient than referring to it as the Sopwith Two-Seater (some variants were in fact single-seaters).

A similar more recent usage would be describing the 727, TriStar, etc as a "3 holer".
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 17:51
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post

A similar more recent usage would be describing the 727, TriStar, etc as a "3 holer".
A description that puzzled the heck out of me for years as I had no conception of engines being referred to as 'holes'. Neither, I suspect, did may others.
I did wonder if it meant some biplane with 3 open cockpits for the crew to lurk in, maybe some derivative of a long-range Wapiti or similar.

Some nicknames really are so esoteric they mean absolutely nowt to those not involved.

On the other hand the one and a half strutter was a name I have known since my earliest days of aviation interest and the meaning was completely, intuitively self-evident, struts being an integral part of a biplane's anatomy.
Utterly unlike 'holes'.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 18:00
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3 Holer = 3 x Intakes
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 18:22
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Originally Posted by Allan Lupton View Post
For some reason I hadn't noticed that a replica Great War aeroplane is being built in Scotland until it was featured on BBC TV Bews today.
I'm old enough to have some idea of the types that were in service even though that was 20 years before my time and I'd never heard of a Sopwith "Strutter" before.
What I have heard of is the Sopwith "1 Strutter" which I expect was named after an unusual arrangement of struts in the wing installation. Perhaps someone can explain what a "strutter" is supposed to be. Am I alone in being irritated by it being called that?.
From what little we saw on the News it has a nice post-period radial engine with self-starter instead of the original's hand-swung rotary which may be a necessary mod. these days.
I'm really irritated! We wouldn't say, "Hawker Hurri", or "North American F-100 Super", so why is "Strutter" being used? I've seen it on modelling forums too. I've also seen people trying to justify its use!
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 18:24
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Why should you be irritated by 'Strutter' Allan ??
Both 'Strutter' and '1 Strutter' were used as an unofficial designation
No they weren't: "Strutter" is a lazy modernism. All WW1 aircraft are 'strutters' for goodness sake!

So please stop inventing a history for some modern laziness.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 18:38
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Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
No they weren't: "Strutter" is a lazy modernism. All WW1 aircraft are 'strutters' for goodness sake!

So please stop inventing a history for some modern laziness.
When flying from ships, the type was known as the 'Ship’s Strutter' and used either a standard wheeled undercarriage or a specially designed skid. It was launched off a platform fitted to the forward end of the ship or sometime later, a gun turret.
I am not inventing anything LOL
Perish the thought that mechanics/pilots in WW1 might want to trim down a long and over fussy nickname.
Now let me see - on a daily basis am I going to say (in full) 'One and a Half Strutter' or perhaps I might shorten it down to just 'Strutter'

Officially the RFC called it 'Sopwith Two Seater' but there will have been other unofficial names used - nothing ever changes.
Also perish the thought that the guys who have invested thousands of man hours in building this beautiful replica aircraft but did not spend 5 minutes researching some of its 'names'
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 18:42
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Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
No they weren't: "Strutter" is a lazy modernism. All WW1 aircraft are 'strutters' for goodness sake!

So please stop inventing a history for some modern laziness.
The strutter nickname was because of the layout of some of the struts - it should really have been a 'proper' 2 bay biplane but sopwith built it on the structurally 'light' side.
Not all WW1 aircraft were 'strutters'
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 19:06
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One-and-a-half-strutter: not 'strutter'. Can you name a WW1 aircraft which wasn't a 'strutter'?

Incidentally, the two-seat 1-1/2-Strutter was also known in period as the "Sopwith 2-Seater", which by the daft convoluted logic shown above, would be called "Sopwith Seater", which is equally as nonsensical as "Strutter".

So only 'Strutter' if you're the sort who's OK saying 'loop-the-loop' and describing every military pilot as an 'ace' or 'Top Gun'. Save it for the Daily Mail.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 19:17
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[QUOTE=Pypard;11356809]One-and-a-half-strutter: not 'strutter'. Can you name a WW1 aircraft which wasn't a 'strutter'?

Fokker Eindekker perhaps? Short on struts but well equipped with wires - and a samson post, which is a sort of strut I suppose.

The Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter was a particularly bonny beast ! Looks quite lightly built, compared to some later machines.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 19:21
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Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
One-and-a-half-strutter: not 'strutter'. Can you name a WW1 aircraft which wasn't a 'strutter'?

The 'strutter' or 'One and a Half Strutter' specifically refers to the layout/configuration of the fuselage to top wing Struts on this aircraft - which was unusual.
You only have to spend a couple of seconds googling to find this out - it was a large aircraft to have this strut layout

​​​​​​​It featured a novel wing strut arrangement in which the two halves of the top wing were braced by a W-form strut system rising from the cockpit area of the fuselage. The outer struts which reached so far outboard that they were regarded as 'half-struts'.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 19:56
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[QUOTE=biscuit74;11356816]
Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
One-and-a-half-strutter: not 'strutter'. Can you name a WW1 aircraft which wasn't a 'strutter'?

Fokker Eindekker perhaps? Short on struts but well equipped with wires - and a samson post, which is a sort of strut I suppose.

The Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter was a particularly bonny beast ! Looks quite lightly built, compared to some later machines.
Yes even the Eindecker was strutted - and seated! But again, using modern laziness, I guess we should call it the Fokker Decker.

The 1 1/2-strutter was one of the first aircraft to feature a dedicated bomb bay as I recall.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 20:12
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tea cup...

storm in a?
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 20:13
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Wasn't there a 'strutter' in the film Oklahoma?
I think the sound track goes like 'when I drive them high steppin' strutters'.

Last edited by chevvron; 31st Dec 2022 at 15:05.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 20:24
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Not a storm in anything. If you excuse things with 'life's too short' cop-outs you may as well give up with all types of learning. Accuracy is key to recording history and excuses are no excuse.

It's still wrong, whether you think it's trivial or not.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 20:34
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Whatever...

Good thing we have you to set the world right.

I will sleep so sound tonight.

Do you call all your friends and loved ones by their full fore, mid and family name each time you speak to them or about them? Never use a nickname? Call a chevrolet, a chevy, with a 327 under the hood? Must call out "cubic inches" displacement each time? With a 4 speed 'trany and a posi-trac in back? OMG! I'm otta control!


Last edited by 70 Mustang; 30th Dec 2022 at 20:53.
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Old 30th Dec 2022, 20:59
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Originally Posted by 70 Mustang View Post
Good thing we have you to set the world right.

I will sleep so sound tonight.

Do you call all your friends and loved ones by their full fore, mid and family name each time you speak to them or about them? Never use a nickname? Call a chevrolet, a chevy, with a 327 under the hood? Must call out "cubic inches" displacement each time? With a 4 speed 'trany and a posi-trac in back? OMG! I'm otta control!
If you're a Mustang driver, shouldn't you be quoting a '351C' rather than one of those terrible GM engines.
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