CAHC Closure - More Ac Losses?
So the council that is kicking them out is the one they have to apply to for planning permission for the new location! That's a bit worrying.
It certainly is, see here: https://flyer.co.uk/cornwall-aviatio...diate-closure/
In short, the council doesn't want to work with them and is asking them to leave the premises by 11th April.
In short, the council doesn't want to work with them and is asking them to leave the premises by 11th April.
Not asking but insisting, demanding, etc. in a few days over the Easter weekend with no prior notice.
I believe that there are varying degrees of stupidity, but by any standards, councils are always at the very pinnacle.
I believe that there are varying degrees of stupidity, but by any standards, councils are always at the very pinnacle.
"The Centre has had since October 2021 to finalise their plans to leave the site. In order to assist the centre, the Council extended their lease by a further 12 months in 2022, to the end of March 2023, for that purpose." and of course they have tenant ready to take the space.
Given the financial pressures they're under I see where they are coming from.
Given the financial pressures they're under I see where they are coming from.
Depends on which side of the story you're looking at. CAHC have been throwing all kinds of proposals at the council, only to have them all turned down or ignored. Now that this last lease would not be extended, the petition and all the attention have led to a new location and over a million pounds to fund the move, but the council do not want to play along. Surely they understand that moving something like this is not a two-day job? Have a look at the article on Flyer I linked to, it provides a bit more information.
The problem is that CAHC seem to think that the answer is to use social media to deal with this issue.
The situation has been building up for a long time and the Airport have not done anything 'suddenly' or without trying to 'enable' a better outcome.
The CAHC knew what was on the table some time ago but have tried to push the issue onto the public arena without disclosing the actual facts of the situation.
Cornwall Council are not a charity and indeed have to account to ratepayers with regard to the Airports operation. The operating 'loss' at the airport is covered by ratepayers who themselves are struggling with lack of affordable housing in a low wage area. I can confirm that CC have been extremely helpful in trying to assist CAHC with the situation, but the simple facts are that Cornwall Council are tasked to be a responsible public body for the benefit of the local community as their prime duty.
By ignoring reasonable business practice CAHC have placed themselves in the current situation, and trying to play out the situation on social media has only made it worse. The RAF are already removing the Tornado aircraft.
The situation has been building up for a long time and the Airport have not done anything 'suddenly' or without trying to 'enable' a better outcome.
The CAHC knew what was on the table some time ago but have tried to push the issue onto the public arena without disclosing the actual facts of the situation.
Cornwall Council are not a charity and indeed have to account to ratepayers with regard to the Airports operation. The operating 'loss' at the airport is covered by ratepayers who themselves are struggling with lack of affordable housing in a low wage area. I can confirm that CC have been extremely helpful in trying to assist CAHC with the situation, but the simple facts are that Cornwall Council are tasked to be a responsible public body for the benefit of the local community as their prime duty.
By ignoring reasonable business practice CAHC have placed themselves in the current situation, and trying to play out the situation on social media has only made it worse. The RAF are already removing the Tornado aircraft.
"Cornwall Council are not a charity and indeed have to account to ratepayers with regard to the Airports operation"
And the Financial Officers are no doubt sweating that NOT accepting the offer to lease to someone else would put them in the firing line.
It sounds as if CAHC had no effective Plan B
I know another organisation (not flying related) who are negotiating to stay on a site on advantageous terms whilst the landlord wants a near market rent. They're negotiating but they also are working full time on a possible move.
And the Financial Officers are no doubt sweating that NOT accepting the offer to lease to someone else would put them in the firing line.
It sounds as if CAHC had no effective Plan B
I know another organisation (not flying related) who are negotiating to stay on a site on advantageous terms whilst the landlord wants a near market rent. They're negotiating but they also are working full time on a possible move.
Ignoring the obvious
"Cornwall Council are not a charity and indeed have to account to ratepayers with regard to the Airports operation"
And the Financial Officers are no doubt sweating that NOT accepting the offer to lease to someone else would put them in the firing line.
It sounds as if CAHC had no effective Plan B
I know another organisation (not flying related) who are negotiating to stay on a site on advantageous terms whilst the landlord wants a near market rent. They're negotiating but they also are working full time on a possible move.
And the Financial Officers are no doubt sweating that NOT accepting the offer to lease to someone else would put them in the firing line.
It sounds as if CAHC had no effective Plan B
I know another organisation (not flying related) who are negotiating to stay on a site on advantageous terms whilst the landlord wants a near market rent. They're negotiating but they also are working full time on a possible move.
This has been on the Council website since 1st September 2022.
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council-...-cahc-closure/
Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (CAHC) has been a tenant at Newquay Airport since 2015. They signed a disclaimer at that point acknowledging there was no right of renewal when its lease expired in 2021. However, in order to assist the centre to find a new site, the Council extended the lease by a further 12 months. Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay are not responsible for the operation of a private business and securing a site on which to operate is the responsibility of the management of the centre. Cornwall Council has made it clear to CAHC that we will consider assisting them to move to a new location when a credible, costed and deliverable proposal has been developed. However, this remains the responsibility of the centre.
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council-...-cahc-closure/
Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre (CAHC) has been a tenant at Newquay Airport since 2015. They signed a disclaimer at that point acknowledging there was no right of renewal when its lease expired in 2021. However, in order to assist the centre to find a new site, the Council extended the lease by a further 12 months. Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay are not responsible for the operation of a private business and securing a site on which to operate is the responsibility of the management of the centre. Cornwall Council has made it clear to CAHC that we will consider assisting them to move to a new location when a credible, costed and deliverable proposal has been developed. However, this remains the responsibility of the centre.
https://democracy.cornwall.gov.uk/ie...Id=11540&Ver=4
has a the Minutes of the Council Meeting on 21st Sept 2022 where several members of the public asked a number of questions. The critcal ones follow-----------------------------“I would like to start by thanking Mr Raymer for his question and being clear that Cornwall Council is not trying to force the closure of CAHC. Indeed, the Council has already extended the lease by 12 months in order for the Aviation Centre to find a new location.
However, Newquay Airport is an operational airport which is vital to the region’s connectivity to the UK.
The airport is currently subsidised by the Cornish taxpayer by over £3 million every year and we have a responsibility to minimise that figure. In order to achieve this, Cornwall Council is committed to develop the airport in a way which minimises this subsidy and continues to develop the site as a key part of Cornwall’s transport and business infrastructure.
The airport team have reviewed CAHC proposals to remain on the airport site in the context of the latest plans to develop the airport estate, minimise the Council’s subsidy and increase the economic benefit and high value employment opportunities for Cornwall. Against these criteria, the CAHC does not meet those objectives for sustainability.
We want to attract high paid aerospace jobs to an operational airport.”
“Thank you, Mrs Watkins, for your question. I don’t think that the Council has said that the Aviation Centre doesn’t attract visitors or that we want it to cease operating. However, it has no operational requirement to be part of the airport estate. It currently occupies 7,000 square feet of that operational space for a rate which is below the commercial value and a further 57,000 square feet free gratis. The lease the Aviation Centre signed seven years ago which included a disclaimer acknowledging the “no right of renewal” was clear when it would end, and the Council has continued to work to those contractual leases.”
“Please will Cornwall Council explain why it has not responded for 11 months to the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre’s repeated requests to discuss the relocation proposals that they submitted at Cornwall Council’s request and no Council representative responded to their requests to visit their site to learn about their operation?”
The following response was provided by the Cabinet Member for Economy:
“In 2015 CAHC signed a disclaimer acknowledging there was no right of renewal when the lease expired. CAHC did not find a new wite within the original and clear timescale of the lease. However, in order to assist CAHC to find a new site the Council extended the lease by a further 12 months. The extension I still in place and will not expire until the end of March 2023 providing further time for CAHC to identify an alternative site.
A formal response to the CAHC proposals was made in August. This response was less that three weeks after CAHC actually signed their tenancy extension, meaning they could operate on the site with the appropriate licensing and leases in place.
The response to CAHC made clear that the proposals did not provide enough detail to evaluate or justify taxpayers subsidising them. There were nine proposals; six of them proposed staying on the airport estate and I have already explained why that does not represent value for money; one of them the CAHC itself considered, “not practical” and the other two involved moving to a nearby location. Airport staff investigated this option and the current landowner said it was not possible.
Airport management are well aware of the operations of CAHC. The Cornwall Council Service Director newly responsible for the airport already has a visit scheduled.
As I have already said the offer to submit a robust proposal is still in place and I will ensure that if a further proposal is made to relocate the Aviation Centre to a new location, it will be evaluated and replied to in a timely manner.”
has a the Minutes of the Council Meeting on 21st Sept 2022 where several members of the public asked a number of questions. The critcal ones follow-----------------------------“I would like to start by thanking Mr Raymer for his question and being clear that Cornwall Council is not trying to force the closure of CAHC. Indeed, the Council has already extended the lease by 12 months in order for the Aviation Centre to find a new location.
However, Newquay Airport is an operational airport which is vital to the region’s connectivity to the UK.
The airport is currently subsidised by the Cornish taxpayer by over £3 million every year and we have a responsibility to minimise that figure. In order to achieve this, Cornwall Council is committed to develop the airport in a way which minimises this subsidy and continues to develop the site as a key part of Cornwall’s transport and business infrastructure.
The airport team have reviewed CAHC proposals to remain on the airport site in the context of the latest plans to develop the airport estate, minimise the Council’s subsidy and increase the economic benefit and high value employment opportunities for Cornwall. Against these criteria, the CAHC does not meet those objectives for sustainability.
We want to attract high paid aerospace jobs to an operational airport.”
“Thank you, Mrs Watkins, for your question. I don’t think that the Council has said that the Aviation Centre doesn’t attract visitors or that we want it to cease operating. However, it has no operational requirement to be part of the airport estate. It currently occupies 7,000 square feet of that operational space for a rate which is below the commercial value and a further 57,000 square feet free gratis. The lease the Aviation Centre signed seven years ago which included a disclaimer acknowledging the “no right of renewal” was clear when it would end, and the Council has continued to work to those contractual leases.”
“Please will Cornwall Council explain why it has not responded for 11 months to the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre’s repeated requests to discuss the relocation proposals that they submitted at Cornwall Council’s request and no Council representative responded to their requests to visit their site to learn about their operation?”
The following response was provided by the Cabinet Member for Economy:
“In 2015 CAHC signed a disclaimer acknowledging there was no right of renewal when the lease expired. CAHC did not find a new wite within the original and clear timescale of the lease. However, in order to assist CAHC to find a new site the Council extended the lease by a further 12 months. The extension I still in place and will not expire until the end of March 2023 providing further time for CAHC to identify an alternative site.
A formal response to the CAHC proposals was made in August. This response was less that three weeks after CAHC actually signed their tenancy extension, meaning they could operate on the site with the appropriate licensing and leases in place.
The response to CAHC made clear that the proposals did not provide enough detail to evaluate or justify taxpayers subsidising them. There were nine proposals; six of them proposed staying on the airport estate and I have already explained why that does not represent value for money; one of them the CAHC itself considered, “not practical” and the other two involved moving to a nearby location. Airport staff investigated this option and the current landowner said it was not possible.
Airport management are well aware of the operations of CAHC. The Cornwall Council Service Director newly responsible for the airport already has a visit scheduled.
As I have already said the offer to submit a robust proposal is still in place and I will ensure that if a further proposal is made to relocate the Aviation Centre to a new location, it will be evaluated and replied to in a timely manner.”
Do not spoil a story with the FACTS
This has now invaded the Military Aviation thread under a 'petition', but still continues to trot out the usual rubbish not based on actual facts.
As alluded no one 'wanted' to see this situation occur, but the CAHC under its head in sand 'leadership' has just ignored reality and is trying to rewrite the background.
Shame they did not use the time to prepare for the future and utilise this to get organised. Remember this situation started when the Classic AIR FORCE hopped back up north when faced with the REALITY of having to pay for facilities, and left the 'museum' part behind. Sorry but Councils are not charities, and have to account for public money. Cornwall Council took over the airfield side of RAF St Mawgan when the RAF finished with it, and that was a big undertaking for a Council in a low economy (seasonable)area. If COVID had not blown the customer income and reduced movements the operating deficiency was on a steady reduction, but they certainly have not been the cause of the CAHC situation. For myself I see a large tract of the old airfield still in MOD ownership but they do not appear to want the CAHC in that area, not that the area is teeming with activity !!!!. According to companies house CAHC is a PLC, so who 'owns' the collection as far as assets are concerned.
As alluded no one 'wanted' to see this situation occur, but the CAHC under its head in sand 'leadership' has just ignored reality and is trying to rewrite the background.
Shame they did not use the time to prepare for the future and utilise this to get organised. Remember this situation started when the Classic AIR FORCE hopped back up north when faced with the REALITY of having to pay for facilities, and left the 'museum' part behind. Sorry but Councils are not charities, and have to account for public money. Cornwall Council took over the airfield side of RAF St Mawgan when the RAF finished with it, and that was a big undertaking for a Council in a low economy (seasonable)area. If COVID had not blown the customer income and reduced movements the operating deficiency was on a steady reduction, but they certainly have not been the cause of the CAHC situation. For myself I see a large tract of the old airfield still in MOD ownership but they do not appear to want the CAHC in that area, not that the area is teeming with activity !!!!. According to companies house CAHC is a PLC, so who 'owns' the collection as far as assets are concerned.
Last edited by POBJOY; 10th Apr 2023 at 19:16. Reason: content
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As I understand it, RAF St Mawgan were open to helping but were prevented based on legal issues regarding the use of that land. The nature of some of the adjacent facilities, even those that are mothballed, was probably also a factor.
The 'Spaceport situation' may offer temp solution !!!
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