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Photo of Pan Am Constellation 88836

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Photo of Pan Am Constellation 88836

Old 24th Mar 2022, 08:39
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Photo of Pan Am Constellation 88836

Can anybody out there advise how to find owners of copyright (RA Scholefield) of a photo of the above aircraft? I have tried to contact them through numerous emails for permission to include the photo in my book. It has to be a photo of the above aircraft.
All ideas gratefully received.
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Old 24th Mar 2022, 10:05
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Originally Posted by Grumpyauldgit View Post
Can anybody out there advise how to find owners of copyright (RA Scholefield) of a photo of the above aircraft? I have tried to contact them through numerous emails for permission to include the photo in my book. It has to be a photo of the above aircraft.
All ideas gratefully received.
I assume you have tried via Air Britain Picture Library which has the facility to e-mail Contributors for permission to reproduce their photographs ? Perhaps R.A. Scholefield has passed ?
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Old 24th Mar 2022, 16:20
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Yes I contacted them. The auto response was that they had forwarded my request to R A Scholefield but I have heard no more.
However, thanks for the suggestion!
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 01:57
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 02:12
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Why the X through the C in NC88836?
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 03:03
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Originally Posted by India Four Two View Post
Why the X through the C in NC88836?
Up to the 1950s, US registrations were displayed including a letter following the "N" to indicate the C of A category. "C" signified a Standard C of A. The requirement to display the category was subsequently removed, although I don't recall any other examples of the letter being crudely deleted as in the photo.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 07:13
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Does not the X signify Experimental? The X is probably tape which would be removed when the aircraft was no longer experimental revealing the C underneath.
I note that the photograph in question is attributed to the "RA Scholefield Collection" which could mean that he wasn't the original photographer anyway.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 08:15
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There's a good chance the original photographer may no longer be with us. I have a number of photographs on various sites which I presume will be out there until the site closes.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 09:36
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
There's a good chance the original photographer may no longer be with us. I have a number of photographs on various sites which I presume will be out there until the site closes.
As far as I know Alan Scholefield is still with us although I have not had any news of him for the last three or four years.....
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 09:39
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
There's a good chance the original photographer may no longer be with us. I have a number of photographs on various sites which I presume will be out there until the site closes.
Any ideas about how one would find out about copyright?
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 11:08
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Have you tried contacting his publishers???
I have one of his books published in 1998 and from one of his dated photographs within he was born in 1936.

Last edited by Brewster Buffalo; 25th Mar 2022 at 15:32. Reason: Birth year of subject..
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 12:53
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This might be helpful, as to generally what you could/should do:

Copyright notice: digital images, photographs and the internet - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

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Old 25th Mar 2022, 16:01
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing View Post
Does not the X signify Experimental? The X is probably tape which would be removed when the aircraft was no longer experimental revealing the C underneath.
Yes, this photo captioned "during pre-delivery tests" would support that interpretation.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 17:37
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Alternatively the 'X' merely cancelled the 'C' (commercial?) when the registration system changed from 'NC' to 'N' for all US registered commercial aircraft.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 22:18
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Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
Alternatively the 'X' merely cancelled the 'C' (commercial?) when the registration system changed from 'NC' to 'N' for all US registered commercial aircraft.
See post #6, now discounted.

The photo was taken prior to entry into service, after which the aircraft wore the NC... registration, the tape presumably having been removed then.
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Old 25th Mar 2022, 23:30
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Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
Alternatively the 'X' merely cancelled the 'C' (commercial?) when the registration system changed from 'NC' to 'N' for all US registered commercial aircraft.
88836 was delivered new to Pan Am in January 1946, their first such aircraft - although not their first in construction number order, and thus very likely to have been used for experimental purposes before delivery. The first non-military Connies of all were delivered to TWA just a few days earlier. The last two digits of this Pan Am batch align with the construction number, 2036, a Pan Am approach on several types of the era. The category letter was ended in January 1949, so it would have spent the first three years as NC.

Is the photo at Burbank ?
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 03:17
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The NX registration prefix indicates that the aircraft is experimental, others were "NC", standard; "NR", restricted; "NL", limited. Can still be used today per the following.
Sec. 45.22

Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.

(a) When display of aircraft nationality and registration marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 would be inconsistent with exhibition of that aircraft, a U.S.-registered aircraft may be operated without displaying those marks anywhere on the aircraft if:
(1) It is operated for the purpose of exhibition, including a motion picture or television production, or an airshow;
(2) Except for practice and test fights necessary for exhibition purposes, it is operated only at the location of the exhibition, between the exhibition locations, and between those locations and the base of operations of the aircraft; and
(3) For each flight in the United States:
(i) It is operated with the prior approval of the Flight Standards District Office, in the case of a flight within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for the takeoff airport, or within 4.4 nautical miles of that airport if it is within
Class G airspace; or
(ii) It is operated under a flight plan filed under either Sec. 91.153 or Sec. 91.169 of this chapter describing the marks it displays, in the case of any other flight.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and
(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N" anywhere on the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph (b)(1) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of this section--
(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless it temporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33;
(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or
[(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 133, 135, or 137 of this chapter.]
(d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for a person to mark it in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33, he may apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...7?OpenDocument
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Grumpyauldgit View Post
Can anybody out there advise how to find owners of copyright (RA Scholefield) of a photo of the above aircraft? I have tried to contact them through numerous emails for permission to include the photo in my book. It has to be a photo of the above aircraft.
All ideas gratefully received.
. . . a simple goggle shows tt picture on various websites [most uncredited] but one shows this:
Pan American World Airways’ first Lockheed L-049 Constellation, NC88836, serial number 2036, photographed at Lockheed Air Terminal, Burbank, California in December 1945. It is temporarily marked NX88836. (Lockheed Martin photograph . . . .

Mr Scholefield may have collected a 'hard copy' of the picture but don't think that gives him copyright. I suggest credit 'Lockheed Martin' and publish and be damned!
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 11:22
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Originally Posted by Fournierf5 View Post
. . . a simple goggle shows tt picture on various websites [most uncredited] but one shows this:
Pan American World Airways’ first Lockheed L-049 Constellation, NC88836, serial number 2036, photographed at Lockheed Air Terminal, Burbank, California in December 1945. It is temporarily marked NX88836. (Lockheed Martin photograph . . . .

Mr Scholefield may have collected a 'hard copy' of the picture but don't think that gives him copyright. I suggest credit 'Lockheed Martin' and publish and be damned!
I agree - the photograph is dated 1945 when Mr Scholefield would have been 9 so it's very unlikely he took it himself...
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Old 26th Mar 2022, 11:59
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May we enquire what the potentially fascinating (with such a photo) book is about ?
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