Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Dan-Air Skyways

Old 8th Mar 2022, 19:01
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LEEDS
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dan-Air Skyways

I was very young when all this happened so please indulge any inaccuracies, no matter how whopping. When Dan-Air acquired Skyways International, the Skyways HS748s received an additional red cheatline (why is it called that ? It's a stripe, FGS) alongside the turquoise, the tailfin was repainted white and received the customary compass and pennant logo, although not encircled at this time. Also, the new hybrid name 'Dan-Air Skyways' was applied to the fuselage. Question: did the existing Dan-Air HS748 fleet receive the same treatment (for the sake of commonality) or were they left as they were in the regular 1972/73 livery?

Thankyou.
Mooncrest is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:12
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somerset
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cheatlines

Got me wondering too..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery
"The etymology of the term stems from "cheating the eye" because the first cheatlines aimed to streamline aircraft visually by reducing the staccato impact of their cabin windows."
Watson1963 is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2022, 09:08
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LEEDS
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Watson1963 View Post
Got me wondering too..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_livery
"The etymology of the term stems from "cheating the eye" because the first cheatlines aimed to streamline aircraft visually by reducing the staccato impact of their cabin windows."
Wouldn't work on a stocky aircraft like the 748 or early 737. A stripe is a stripe!
Mooncrest is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2022, 14:03
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did these fly over the channel from Lydd ?
BACsuperVC10 is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2022, 14:48
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BACsuperVC10 View Post
Did these fly over the channel from Lydd ?
Dan Air Skyways absorbed Skyways International, formerly Skyways Coach-Air and the HS748 operation was from Ashford (Lympne). They also flew a small schedule from EMA (then of course CDD) to Beauvais for a number of seasons between the late 1960s and early 1970s. They flew Coach-Air services from London to Paris flying Ashford-Beauvais. Then there was Skyways Cargo Airline that I seem to recall flew from Lydd to Beauvais using a fleet of DC3s. I believe that they worked closely with a French freight forwarder, Beauvais Transport SA whom I would up working for some years later - long after the DC3 operation was history, and nightly trucks were flavour of the month.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2022, 16:19
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I did that Coach-Air route London - Paris via Lydd and Beauvais in April 1975. We flew from Lydd on a Dan-Air Viscount G-BBDK which they leased (in full Dan-Air livery) for a while. Unfortunately coming back two days later the Viscount went tech and we had to hang around for a 748 (G-ASPL) which took us back from Le Bourget to Gatwick at around 2am. I can still recall the landing at LGW in a horrible gusty crosswind in rain - one of the few times I have ever been worried for my own safety in an aircraft.
possel is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2022, 17:24
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by possel View Post
I did that Coach-Air route London - Paris via Lydd and Beauvais in April 1975. We flew from Lydd on a Dan-Air Viscount G-BBDK which they leased (in full Dan-Air livery) for a while. Unfortunately coming back two days later the Viscount went tech and we had to hang around for a 748 (G-ASPL) which took us back from Le Bourget to Gatwick at around 2am. I can still recall the landing at LGW in a horrible gusty crosswind in rain - one of the few times I have ever been worried for my own safety in an aircraft.
I guess that the coach-air operation moved away from Ashford when the Viscount replaced 748s.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2022, 17:28
  #8 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,425
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I remember seeing Skyways Cargo DC-3s at Gatwick in the mid to late-70s. They faded and Intra Airways/Air Atlantique perhaps picked up some of the fleet? One I recall went to Ethiopia and subsequently crashed.
treadigraph is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2022, 10:28
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: kent
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The coach-air service moved to Lydd. was operated by HS748, then leased Viscounts of first Air Bridge then Alidair. At one time BAC 1-11s were tried.
Happy days.
tonyb is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 07:11
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 4DME
Posts: 2,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The photos below might help with your timeline.
Aviation photographs of Registration: G-ASPL : ABPic
N707ZS is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 19:00
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I certainly remember seeing Dan-Air Skyways 748's in Jersey and plain Dan-Air 748s's but can't remember if that was in the same period or later.
Flap40 is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 19:16
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: same planet as yours
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Then there was Skyways Cargo Airline that I seem to recall flew from Lydd to Beauvais using a fleet of DC3s.
They also flew on an almost daily basis Ashford (and later Lydd) - Antwerp. Still remembering G-AGYZ as one of the DC3's registration, confirms my long term memory is still intact (compared to the short term memory )
DIBO is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 22:13
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: By the Cathedral just outside Syerston circuit.
Posts: 27
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was at school near LBA in ‘73 when my dad was promoted & the rest of the family moved to Glasgow.
Pater busy , Mater looking after wee sister?
You can fly home Dan Air!
As a kid fascinated with aircraft who hung around LBA every weekend , it was great news-tho’ having to travel as a ‘UM’ miffed me somewhat!
Many a year ago but I’m convinced it was Dan Air Skyways , with the ‘Skyways’ part always on my ticket , announced for boarding etc.
The paint scheme sounds as I recollect it.
Always a ‘748 , I was sometimes the only passenger , but one time the aircraft went ‘tech’ & I travelled alone on a ‘111!!
Great excitement , as ‘111s were rare at LBA at that time.
Aer Lingus flew one every Sunday ( I think ) , but we saw a lot of Viscounts....
Flugzeug A is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 22:55
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think the 748 fleet became somewhat mixed after the merger. Skyways operated from Lympne (pronounced "Lim") airport, alias Ashford, which was a grass runway, and the 748 was about the largest type that could operate there. I believe Skyways physically owned it. When periodically waterlogged, or after the merger when larger Viscounts took over from the 748s, things were transferred down the road to Lydd. This was aided by their principal traffic being London to Paris "Coach-Air" services, with road coaches from each side. The 748 seated 48, which was the same seating capacity as typical road coaches of the era. They also did quite a lot of holiday IT charters on the same route for travel companies doing coach holidays to the continent. Their several 748s were notably intensively used shuttling to and fro on summer weekends, the scheduled service alone being roughly hourly. Lympne, despite being grass, must have had full lighting, because they scheduled to operate until midnight.

The original 748s transferred to Dan-Air were some of the first built, for Skyways in 1962, and after the 1973 merger then had amazingly long lives with Dan-Air, some through to 1990. Regarding livery consistency, well, this is Dan-Air. Were any two aircraft ever painted the same ? . The 748 fleet at both organisations was notably fluid, with aircraft leasing both in and out. Skyways, being a very seasonal operation, worked significantly in this way.

The 748s, pressurised and on a somewhat longer run, flew over the top of the Silver City (later BUA) car ferry shuttle's Bristol Freighters operating from Lydd to Le Touquet.

Skyways were an absolute pioneer independent from the end of WW2, and in the early 1950s one of the largest. They started the Coach-Air operation with DC3s. The mainstream airline eventually morphed into Britannia Airways (I'm shortcutting notably here), while Coach-Air continued with the name as a separate company - they probably always were required to badge as Skyways Coach-Air. After selling out (maybe for 1 - plus all the debts) to Dan-Air their longstanding MD retained a few all-cargo DC3s, which ran on for some years in the 1970s, separately again, still from Lydd but also inevitably at the time from Aberdeen as well, often indeed in competition with Dan-Air there, before finally closing down in the early 1980s.
WHBM is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2022, 22:01
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My very first cross channel trip Lydd - Beauvais school trip, summer of '67 in a DC3 and we stayed in a deserted Versaille girls' school.

In those days that counted as glamour for me...
Rob
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 08:13
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 51
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What short of instrument approaches did Lympne have?
Mickey Kaye is online now  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 09:09
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Northampton, England
Age: 62
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mickey Kaye View Post
What short of instrument approaches did Lympne have?
The Wikipedia entry says Decca Radar. No mention of ILS.

My 1974 publication UK & Eire Commercial Airports says Plessey 424 radar, NDB and VASI.
Airbanda is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 10:18
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In the late 60s Skyways had 5 or 6 748s each summer, often leasing in for the period. One did daily shuttles Lympne to Beauvais, managing six round trips. A second also ran the route, doubling the schedule, on peak days with another six round trips; Fridays and Sundays were the peak days.

A third did the longer haul runs from Lympne; the route through Clermont Fernand to Montpelier and back took all day, and in the evening supplemented Beauvais and could do an intervening trip from there to East Midlands and back, all these three ending up back at Lympne close to, or after, midnight, which meant the coach got passengers to London Victoria around 2am, which in that era must have been pretty inconvenient for those on a budget, where night-rate black cabs were the only onward option.

A fourth aircraft did the inclusive tour hops from Lympne across the Channel, to Beauvais again or Ostend. One, sometimes two, aircraft spare or on maintenance. Probably no crews got weekend days off in the summer.
WHBM is online now  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 18:12
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 8,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Skyways International also flew a scheduled service between Luton and Ostend in 1971
LTNman is online now  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 19:36
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Skyways International also flew a scheduled service between Luton and Ostend in 1971
The name change from Skyways Coach-Air was shortly before they ended operations. These schedules, a few times a week, were a "W" Lympne-Ostend-Luton and back. Skyways only attempted intermittent scheduled service to Ostend, but did a good number of IT charter flights there from Lympne for Continental coach holiday operators, as Ostend was a significant centre for touring coach operators running all over Europe.

Skyways Coach-Air had been half-owned by its London coach company connector East Kent buses, the local mainstream bus operator in Kent, which became nationalised and thus the airline ended up half state-owned. When the ministry turned down a request for winter funding that was the end, and I believe they shut down for a couple of months before Dan-Air took them on. Eric Rylands, longstanding MD from back in the major Skyways company in the 1950s, then started again and took on the cargo DC-3s, funded by some major cross-channel freight forwarders as described above, carrying on initially the same services as before - this had always been a separate but parallel Skyways area of business, to Beauvais, Antwerp, etc, sharing the night operations at Lympne.

Last edited by WHBM; 10th Apr 2022 at 19:56.
WHBM is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.