Whitchurch [Bristol] to Lisbon flight duration

[treadigraph]

Presumably Pundit Code for Whitchurch then?

[ccohen]

Thanks all for your elucidations. From the log book entries the time southbound averaged 7:07 and back 6:51, I assume benefiting from south-westerly winds, but not a lot

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Originally Posted by treadigraph

Presumably Pundit Code for Whitchurch then?

Think you are right. Noticeably absent from log book in plain language.

[Nige321]

Originally Posted by OUAQUKGF Ops

Think you are right. Noticeably absent from log book in plain language.

Up until May 1943 he refers to Whitchurch, from the 10th May 43 entries change to 'JP'...

Odd that it's the only place he uses the code...

[ccohen]

Just seen I missed part of this, how sad about his death

[Mike Lima 01]

Another source of information on these flights is the book, 'Flight 777, The Mystery of Leslie Howard by Ian Colvin,' updated by his son and daughter in 2013. The book is available from Pen and Sword Books Aviation. ISBN978-1-78159-016-4 A thoroughly good read.

[Nige321]

Originally Posted by ccohen

Just seen I missed part of this, how sad about his death

[ccohen]

History is made up of so many sad and almost unremarkable tradedgies

[ccohen]

Mike Lima 01 I've not read it, but it is quoted a dozen times in Esther Eforgan's bio Leslie Howard -The Lost Actor [2010]. I think he was one of the early conspiracy theorists.

[G7FBD]

G-AGBB Flight 777

Hi, Sorry for jumping into this conversation. I came across this site via the G-AGBB registration number. My name is Mat and my amateur radio callsign is G7FBD. Myself and members of both North and South Bristol Amateur Radio Clubs are putting together what Ofcom class as a "Special Event" radio station (open to the public) at the end of the runway which is the only surviving remains of Whitchurch Airport here in Bristol to commemorate the loss of flight 777(a) 80 years ago on the 1st of June.

Although we are planning to operate our special event station from Tuesday 30th to Saturday 3rd of June, the 1st is the primary date for us.

I am currently writing an article for a Amateur Radio Magazine on the flight, those on board and the process of putting on this event. For me, this all originally started back in late 2021 by me being asked by friend and fellow Amateur Dave G7BYN if I had ever heard of flight 777.

Being from Bristol, I was aware Bristol Whitchurch airport had existed but not of flight 777.

This lead to hours of internet browsing for information of the aircraft, then the passengers, then Lesley Howard and finally her crew. It’s been an interesting time and in my view well worth the excise into learning about the events of 1943. The event has grown from originally being just North Bristol Amateur Radio Club to where we are now with the partnership with South Bristol ARC.

If any of you chaps find yourself in Bristol between 30th of May and the 3rd June, Please feel free to come along to Hengrove Park Bristol and come and say Hi, and maybe we could convince you to have a go at operating and help us give some recognition to the loss of the passengers and crew of flight 777.

Also if anyone has any information they feel would be of interest for us to display to the public, I am sure this forum allows private emails etc.

Thanks for your time, and the interesting read you have given me. As we say ’73

Mat

[India Four Two]

Originally Posted by ccohen

Thanks very much: Amazon do have one for about £25 [with free slow delivery from South Africa!]

I'v just found two copies of "Sluipvluchten naar Lissabon" on abebooks, one of which is (still?) in a South African bookshop!

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sea...-Results&ds=20

[Jhieminga]

There are many copies available, but most of them in Dutch or Belgian bookshops. It turns up regularly at prices anywhere between 12 euros and twice or thrice that. Seeing this topic has made me remember the story... I will see if I can dig up my copy of 'Sluipvluchten...' and look up what's in there. To be continued.

[Jhieminga]

I found my copy, here's a page with a navigation chart for the Bristol to Lissabon route. The bit about the war routes is quite extensive. If ccohen is around: could you send me a message or e-mail with your e-mail address? I can share some pages with you so that you can have a look at the material.

[India Four Two]

Originally Posted by India Four Two

Colin,

Wikipedia quotes a cruising speed of 207 mph.

Using Great Circle Mapper, I calculated 4:28 direct, so seven hours doesn’t seem unreasonable, if you are taking the “Ju-88 avoiding route”.

Interestingly, the maximum range is quoted as 1500 miles, which would be 7:15 at cruising speed.

I wonder if these Dakotas had extra fuel capacity.

Following up on my previous post, I put the tracks shown on Jhieminga's chart into http://gcmapper.com.





1045 sm at 207 mph gives a time of just over five hours.

[Jhieminga]

I have only gone over some of the pages rather quickly to get an idea of what is in the book (it has been a while since I read it fully) but I gather that Whitchurch was rather limited in runway length when they started the operations, so they had to incorporate a stop at Chivenor to load up on fuel for the stretch to Lissabon. Sometimes passengers would have to take a bus to Chivenor as they could only get out of Whitchurch with an otherwise empty aircraft. They did the same on the stretch back from Lissabon, refuelling at Porto, as the airfield at Sintra was often waterlogged. There is also mention of using increased maximum weights on the Dakotas to counter this problem somewhat. I haven't found the reason but they were not allowed to fly at night, necessitating completion of the flight before sunset. It may have related to navigation, they were using a combination of sun sightings and radio navigation thanks to the radio operator they had on board. They did operate a cargo run at night using the single KLM DC-2 that ended up in the UK. These things may have changed, but I have only looked at the first bit of the book so far.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

That's a nifty tool that you've got there India.... I've just used it to enlighten myself. Hopeless at Maths - skool forbade me to sit it for 'O Level' said I would bring skool into disrepute......

Regards

[India Four Two]

That's a nifty tool ...

Yes, it's fascinating and very informative. It's particularly useful for looking at Great Circle routes. If you are used to looking at Mercator maps, it's not immediately obvious why your Vancouver to Bangkok flight takes off and initially heads northward towards Anchorage Alaska!



Similarly why does your Heathrow to Vancouver flight take you over Scotland, Iceland and Greenland?

[Asturias56]

"Similarly why does your Heathrow to Vancouver flight take you over Scotland, Iceland and Greenland?"

Because they don't want any survivors if you have to land off base?

[India Four Two]

Good point Asturias.

I like to point out to friends in the UK that half the flight to Western Canada is over Canadian territory and very remote inhospitable territory at that!

[Asturias56]

Yes - remarkably little over the Atlantic really - but if you ever fly Toronto -Calgary you'll know just how big Canada is...................