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Britannia Airways 737-200s.

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Britannia Airways 737-200s.

Old 27th Aug 2021, 22:17
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair bought 6 of the Britannia 737-200s in about '93/4. They were all ADV -15 55 tonners, i.e. the most recent and best of the fleet.
I joined Ryan in '97, and they were still chuckling over the price they got them for.
G-BJCV became EI-CJC
G-BKHE " EI-CJD
G-BJCU " EI-CJE
G-BTZF (or BKHF) became EI-CJF
G-BGYK became EI-CJG
G-BGYJ " EI-JCH
The last time I flew an ex Brit 73 was in OCT 2005 (CJG). They were then being phased out, as the 787-800's took their place. My last flight before retiring was 19 DEC 05, which was one of the last 732 flights by Ryan.

I always felt Britannia missed a golden opportunity when they got rid of the 73's and went all 757/767. They had a number of good, recent 732's which they sold, flooding the market and so not getting a good price. They got rid of a lot of pilots, paying out on redundancy deals.. Brit was up until then running a cheap "no-frills" schedule between Luton and Belfast, and, selling every seat.
If they had kept the best aircraft, kept on pilots to operate them, and expanded the no frills routes, they could have had a good thing going, using their buying power to keep costs down on fuel, handling, etc. Ryanair may never have expanded as it did, and Easyjet may never have got started.
Not sour grapes on my part - I did very well out of the redundancy, and spent the next 12 years flying ex Brit 732's fot different outfits, including Easy, when it started with two aircraft leased in, and later with Ryan.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 00:24
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Quote.
“I always felt Britannia missed a golden opportunity when they got rid of the 73's and went all 757/767”.

My understanding was that Britannia traded in the B737-200’s to Boeing to get a good deal on the B757’s and Boeing ‘sold / leased’ them on.

Agreed about the pulling back on the Scheduled routes. LTN BFS LTN could have been the start of something else.

A phrase for those who were there by the then MD, was ‘the wrong kind of profit’ ………if only

Last edited by mustbeaboeing; 28th Aug 2021 at 08:48.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 11:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest View Post
. Also about terminating lease or finance deals early in order to obtain more attractive terms on essentially an identical aircraft. Only possible without stiff penalties for early termination, I expect, or if the benefits of a new deal offset any penalty.
There's no such thing as a standard set of lease terms, all depends on individual negotiation and how the market is. Commonly there are break points when you can more readily hand back, which themselves become times for further hard-nosed renegotiation. There's normally an exec at most carriers who is the expert at this.

Originally Posted by mustbeaboeing View Post
A phrase for those who were there by the then MD, was ‘the wrong kind of profit’ ………
Indeed. One has known several organisations whose accounts show them profitable every quarter - until they go bankrupt.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 11:50
  #24 (permalink)  
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I guess by about 1972-73, i.e. when BADP and BADR were delivered, the Advanced was the standard production variant. Did any other early 737 customers, e.g. Aer Lingus and Braathens, also order the Advanced ? Both these airlines were regular or semi-regular users of LBA's short runway in the 1970s, albeit not flying long distances. Their early 737s should therefore have been able to cope.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 12:20
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Sure, the Advanced became the standard production type. Both Aer Lingus and Braathens bought later aircraft, they both had integrated local short-haul networks with substantial IT flights to the Mediterranean, which particularly for Braathens from Scandinavia stretched the aircraft as each improvement came along.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 12:23
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Britannia traded in the B737-200’s to Boeing to get a good deal on the B757’s
G-BECG and G-BECH were apparently owned by an American pension fund - I believe for dentists. When they left Brit, they were taken on a 4 year lease by the Independent Aviation Group, who were a firm of seat brokers ( not the other IAG). It not being economical to have an Air Operator's Certificate for 2 aircraft, they were put on G.B.'s AOC, and G.B. recruited extra pilots to cover them. These pilots did not just fly CG and CH, but all GB pilots flew both these and GB's other 732s, which were British Airways pattern.
IAG found various charters to use the aircraft on, including work for Sterling in Denmark and Sobelair (SABENA's charter division).
In 1995, IAG got the contract to start Easyjet, with flights commencing in the November. At that pont, Easyjet consisted of the two aircraft and two routes, LTN-GLA-LTN and LTN-EDI-LTN. G.B provided the pilots and senior cabin crew, and Easyjet the remaining cabin crew.
This involved the expense of crews travelling from their LGW base to LTN and back, and ocasionally hotel accomodation in LTN, so in July 1996, the aircraft were transferred to Air Foyle's AOC in LTN. Air Foyle recruited pilots, some transferring from G.B., the others being largely ex Brtannia.
Once it was seen that there was the demand, Easyjet started to acquire their own aircraft and crews and add routes. Early additions were Inverness, Aberdeen and Amsterdam..
In April 1997 IAG's contract with Easyjet expired, and they switched to a contract with Virgin Express. CG and CH were based in Heathrow, operating LHR- Brussels, and on to other Virgin Express destinations, usually Nice and Milan (Malpensa).
This continued until early October 1997.
At that pont the lease on the aircraft expired. To renew it would have required IAG to pay for them to be hush kitted, so it was not renewed.
I believe both aircraft ended up in Argentina, and were scrapped about 10 years later.
.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 13:38
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest View Post
I guess by about 1972-73, i.e. when BADP and BADR were delivered, the Advanced was the standard production variant. Did any other early 737 customers, e.g. Aer Lingus and Braathens, also order the Advanced ? Both these airlines were regular or semi-regular users of LBA's short runway in the 1970s, albeit not flying long distances. Their early 737s should therefore have been able to cope.
Aer Lingus bought three Advanced 737s new: EI-ASL (-248C) and EI-BEB/BEC. A further, secondhand, acquisition was also of the Advanced model, viz EI-BDY (a series -2E1, ex-Eastern Provincial). For reasons of standardisation across the airline's 737 fleet, all were fitted with -9A engines.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 14:39
  #28 (permalink)  
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Thanks all. I remember seeing EI-BDY in summer 1987 when Britannia had her on a damp lease from Aer Lingus.

I've often wondered if the Britannia and Braathens 737s and 767s were more or less identical ? My theory is based solely on the adjacent Boeing customer codes, -04 and -05!
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 14:54
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The B767-200s both of Britannia and Braathens were the only ones to my knowledge that had twin over-wing exits.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 20:10
  #30 (permalink)  
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So checked my log and flew the following BY 737's:

10.02.83 LTN-GVA G-BGYL
17.02.83 GVA-LTN G-BFVB (named Sir Thomas Sopwith)
15.02.92 ZRH-LGW G-AVRN

It has always provided me with a bit of nerdy amusement that my first BY 737 flight was in a G-BG reg aircraft, and my last, some 9 year later, was in an "original" G-AV aircraft.....

'YL of course ended her days plummeting into the Panamanian jungle, with COPA, in what was "suspected" as one of the early rudder hard over incidents



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Old 29th Aug 2021, 07:01
  #31 (permalink)  
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G BMMZ was a nightmare of an aircraft. Useless weather radar.
I had smoke in cockpit on flight from Nice to Luton, landed at Lyon and waited for engineers from Ltn to fix it.
Latter when a B767/757 Captain I too took redundancy in 1994 and worked as expat for the last 9 years until 60.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 11:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TCU View Post
'YL of course ended her days plummeting into the Panamanian jungle, with COPA, in what was "suspected" as one of the early rudder hard over incidents
I thought that one had been shown to be an artificial horizon failure on a dark night?
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 12:19
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Originally Posted by DH106 View Post
I thought that one had been shown to be an artificial horizon failure on a dark night?
Me too. And the failure was attributed to the connecting cables found being installed overtight and short-circuiting (identified by the FAA/NTSB/Boeing in the USA). Likewise the CVR was failed because the tape had snapped. Both pointed to the last time they had been maintained/reinstalled, which had not happened during the lease. The form of the loss of control also looked more like following a failed horizon rather than a jammed rudder. The aircraft still belonged to Britannia, who sent personnel to the accident scene and the enquiry. It had been leased to Copa Panama just 8 weeks beforehand, and was still essentially in Britannia livery, with the Copa name stuck over the top. It was also different in some horizon switch settings to other Copa 737s, which the crew had not been through any differences training on, and possibly the leasing carrier had not even identified. It had been re-reg in Panama for the duration of the lease so the AAIB did not need to get involved.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 13:35
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DH106 View Post
I thought that one had been shown to be an artificial horizon failure on a dark night?
DH106. You and WHBM are correct and it was my bad in not fully expanding on my use of the word "suspected". Must have been an awful journey down.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 16:33
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rutan16 View Post
AZNZ was a United build frame that they got rid of very early for some reason.
We flew Mahon to Castle Don on NZ in April 1975. My recollection is that it was mainly used on behalf of Horizon Midlands from BHX or EMA (still CDD at the time). There was a plaque with the Horizon Midlands logo just inside the forward door.
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Old 30th Aug 2021, 07:38
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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BY's early 737's were delivered with original Boeing 707/727 type hat rack interiors with individual PSU's over the seat rows, in addition all the early ones had just a forward galley with 2 toilets aft, whereas the newer BY 737's had split galley's fore and aft.

First seating config was 117 pax to match the Bristol Britannia's, but this went eventually up to the charter norm of 130 pax.

I recall BCAL around 1973 began installing on their 707C's the new wide-look cabin interior with flush overhead lockers to compete with 747/DC-10/Tristar Jumbo Operators in the new wide-body age.
Britannia would eventually follow suit for their 737's, and later orders would have been delivered with the new cabins installed, but I have no idea what was the first new aircraft to have this factory fitted, but it may have been later deliveries that ended towards the time of new 767 deliveries in 1984.
Early BY 737 aircraft still in the fleet were retrofitted with the new wide-look cabins.

United had sold some of their first -222 fleet early on to both Britannia and Transavia.

737-200ADV Advanced were built from June 1971 onwards.
Thus G-AVRL-O, G-AXNA-C, G-AWSY, and G-AZNZ were not ADV models,
but from 1973 G-BADP-R, G-BAZG-I G-BECG/H and those then on were all -204 or 2U4 ADV models --- I'm sure someone here will clarify this.

Britannia's 767-204's had GE CF6 engines with a 2-4-2 seating config for 273, then to 290 pax, but Braathen's pair of 767-205's had PW JT9D engines with a nicer 2-3-2 config seating 256.
Braathens soon found the 767 unsuitable and too big, and offered them for sale in 1986.
Britannia, I assume due to their PW engines did not take them despite the pair having the 2 extra over wing exits to enable 290 pax.
However, one did come into BY's fleet later on a lease as G-BNAX.
Aeromaritime also ordered a 762 with two extra over wing exits, this 767 went to Balkan.

BY 204 and BU 205 Boeing Codes were both given for early 1968 orders for the first new European Customer 737-200 deliveries.

Last edited by rog747; 30th Aug 2021 at 09:47.
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