Willy Brandt flight to Berlin 1989
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,660
LS has got it; the other flight was indeed once-weekly on an Iraqi Airways Trident, operating Baghdad-Istanbul-Prague-Berlin SXF-London LHR. Iraqi had been a somewhat unusual purchaser of some of the few Trident 1s that were built for export, they carried on from their earlier Viscounts. Bit of an extraordinary flight though. I wonder how many actually boarded it at Schonefeld to go to London. The scheduled time was much faster than LOT posted on their IL-18 turboprop.
ia70-3.jpg (1106×1267) (timetableimages.com)
ia70-3.jpg (1106×1267) (timetableimages.com)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
The Lot IL18 I recall on the AMS/LHR sector had
around 14 pax on board. It was as smoky inside
as it was outside, with a thick exhaust from the
Ivchenko engines. The guy sitting behind me was
American, and amazed that free drinks were being
offered. I flew in recent years with Eurolot on an
ATR (not my favourite a.c.) and found LOT very
acceptable, and cabin staff very polite and professional.
L.S.
around 14 pax on board. It was as smoky inside
as it was outside, with a thick exhaust from the
Ivchenko engines. The guy sitting behind me was
American, and amazed that free drinks were being
offered. I flew in recent years with Eurolot on an
ATR (not my favourite a.c.) and found LOT very
acceptable, and cabin staff very polite and professional.
L.S.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: attitude is nominal
Posts: 1,387
LOT was permitted to use the center corridor on the way west from Schönefeld but Iraqi? They must have gone north via Trent VOR, Rügen island via the Baltic Sea, North Sea to the UK and down south towards EGLL.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
Dear WHBM.
Did you find any information about Interflug IF580 SXF/ULN
Summer 1971, which the CIA reported not showing in the
ABC or AOG world guides ? Was it showing in their DDR
Timetable ? I found the CIA Library reports on Interflug
DDR Aviation, and SXF very accurate apart from the report
on the crash of Baade 152 DM-ZYA on 4th March 1959
at 13.55hrs 5 miles from Dresden. There were around 20
a/c in production ordered by Deutsche Lufthansa Ost, which
became Interflug when the production was cancelled, and
IF having no option but buy the TU134. The Aviation Safety
Network page reports problem with fuel flow. This appears
to me, to have been a problem that could have been
rectified after the loss of DM-DYA, and drastic action to
stop the production of this beautiful aircraft.
Re. The Lot IL18 SXF/LHR. Do you have the routing of this
flight and the times of Dep from SXF and arr. in LHR ?
Lance Shippey
Did you find any information about Interflug IF580 SXF/ULN
Summer 1971, which the CIA reported not showing in the
ABC or AOG world guides ? Was it showing in their DDR
Timetable ? I found the CIA Library reports on Interflug
DDR Aviation, and SXF very accurate apart from the report
on the crash of Baade 152 DM-ZYA on 4th March 1959
at 13.55hrs 5 miles from Dresden. There were around 20
a/c in production ordered by Deutsche Lufthansa Ost, which
became Interflug when the production was cancelled, and
IF having no option but buy the TU134. The Aviation Safety
Network page reports problem with fuel flow. This appears
to me, to have been a problem that could have been
rectified after the loss of DM-DYA, and drastic action to
stop the production of this beautiful aircraft.
Re. The Lot IL18 SXF/LHR. Do you have the routing of this
flight and the times of Dep from SXF and arr. in LHR ?
Lance Shippey
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
As nothing heard re. Burgermeister return to Wildenrath 10th Nov.1989
I presume they went by road, as CGN/Wildenrath only 1hr10min drive.
I imagine they were grateful to the RAF for flying them to CGN in an
Andover during the morning.
Lance Shippey
I presume they went by road, as CGN/Wildenrath only 1hr10min drive.
I imagine they were grateful to the RAF for flying them to CGN in an
Andover during the morning.
Lance Shippey
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,660
The timetable for the SXF to London flights in 1970 is here :
if70-08.jpg (1909×1338) (timetableimages.com)
The Interflug timetable actually included every flight into the GDR by foreign airlines. This was not uncommon in those times, not just in the eastern bloc but elsewhere as well - the Finnair timetable, so example, did the same for everything which went to Finland, whether officially in pool or not. I suspect the ABC was not allowed in the GDR.
Regarding flights not in the timetable, Interflug did of course do whatever the GDR government required for "special" flights, which could be all sorts. As elsewhere. At the time one would regularly find Pan Am 707s in Mildenhall. Which was never in the Pan Am timetable either ...
if70-08.jpg (1909×1338) (timetableimages.com)
The Interflug timetable actually included every flight into the GDR by foreign airlines. This was not uncommon in those times, not just in the eastern bloc but elsewhere as well - the Finnair timetable, so example, did the same for everything which went to Finland, whether officially in pool or not. I suspect the ABC was not allowed in the GDR.
Regarding flights not in the timetable, Interflug did of course do whatever the GDR government required for "special" flights, which could be all sorts. As elsewhere. At the time one would regularly find Pan Am 707s in Mildenhall. Which was never in the Pan Am timetable either ...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
WHBM.
Thanks for the info.
The possible involvement by the GDR government is exactly my point.
The IF600 SXF/MOS with connection MOS/ULN was shown in guides
and their t/t. the IF580 as stated by the CIA was not.
Pan Am Mildenhall flights were charters, and can't really be compared
to the IF580 schedule flight. Charter flights would not have appeared in
PA's scheduled timetable.
Less Hair.
Iraqi HST took 1hr. 55min SXF/LHR without the Corridor.
LOT IL18 took 3hr. 00min SXF/LHR much slower a/c and difficult to
compare with similar a/c such as Vanguard. as BE operated Viscount
on the svc, and it operated via HAJ, and would have used the Corridor.
Lance Shippey
Thanks for the info.
The possible involvement by the GDR government is exactly my point.
The IF600 SXF/MOS with connection MOS/ULN was shown in guides
and their t/t. the IF580 as stated by the CIA was not.
Pan Am Mildenhall flights were charters, and can't really be compared
to the IF580 schedule flight. Charter flights would not have appeared in
PA's scheduled timetable.
Less Hair.
Iraqi HST took 1hr. 55min SXF/LHR without the Corridor.
LOT IL18 took 3hr. 00min SXF/LHR much slower a/c and difficult to
compare with similar a/c such as Vanguard. as BE operated Viscount
on the svc, and it operated via HAJ, and would have used the Corridor.
Lance Shippey
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
Was Sarkozy really in Berlin on Nov. 9th 1989 ?
Sarkozy, then 34 years old and deputy leader of
the Conservative party "RPR" said that he had
received "Interesting news from Berlin, apparently
heralding change in the divided capital" He set off
to Berlin with political ally Alain Juppe,
His visit culminated with him hacking at the wall
with his pickaxe.
http://www.dw.com/en/memory-loss-sar...nder/a-4878717
Lance Shippey
Sarkozy, then 34 years old and deputy leader of
the Conservative party "RPR" said that he had
received "Interesting news from Berlin, apparently
heralding change in the divided capital" He set off
to Berlin with political ally Alain Juppe,
His visit culminated with him hacking at the wall
with his pickaxe.
http://www.dw.com/en/memory-loss-sar...nder/a-4878717
Lance Shippey
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
30th,Nov.2020 Berlin Brandenburg Airport unveiled
the Willy Brandt Wall in terminal 1 of the new airport
which carries Willy Brandt's name. The impressive
tribute to Herr Brandt. carries his words.
"If I were asked to say what apart from peace, was
the most important to me, Then my answer would be
freedom".
The buildings from SXF now a ten minutes drive from
the new airport now become BER terminal 5. I hope
that the Brandenburg authorities consider naming the
old SXF building after Chris Gueffroy, the young waiter
who served his apprenticeship at the SXF restaurant.
He was the last person to be Shot and killed trying to
escape to West Berlin in 1989. All he wanted, was the
same as Willy Brandt. "Freedom" Chris however paid
with his life.
Lance Shippey
the Willy Brandt Wall in terminal 1 of the new airport
which carries Willy Brandt's name. The impressive
tribute to Herr Brandt. carries his words.
"If I were asked to say what apart from peace, was
the most important to me, Then my answer would be
freedom".
The buildings from SXF now a ten minutes drive from
the new airport now become BER terminal 5. I hope
that the Brandenburg authorities consider naming the
old SXF building after Chris Gueffroy, the young waiter
who served his apprenticeship at the SXF restaurant.
He was the last person to be Shot and killed trying to
escape to West Berlin in 1989. All he wanted, was the
same as Willy Brandt. "Freedom" Chris however paid
with his life.
Lance Shippey
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
MUC named after Franz Josef Strauss
HAM named from Nov 2016 after Helmut Schmidt
BER named after Willy Brandt. Opened after
delays of 10 years
FRA perhaps could be re-named "Mutti Merkel, when
she stands down. After all FRA is the "Mother of
all German airports"
Lance Shippey
HAM named from Nov 2016 after Helmut Schmidt
BER named after Willy Brandt. Opened after
delays of 10 years
FRA perhaps could be re-named "Mutti Merkel, when
she stands down. After all FRA is the "Mother of
all German airports"
Lance Shippey
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
Info if possible please.
Berlin SXF had a Postamt (post office) during
DDR years with 1189 Postcode, including a
telegram department. The U.K discontinued
telegrams in 1982. How was it possible for
telegrams sent from the SXF postamt in 1987
delivered by the GPO (British Post Office) to
a British address ?
Lance Shippey
Berlin SXF had a Postamt (post office) during
DDR years with 1189 Postcode, including a
telegram department. The U.K discontinued
telegrams in 1982. How was it possible for
telegrams sent from the SXF postamt in 1987
delivered by the GPO (British Post Office) to
a British address ?
Lance Shippey
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,660
Originally Posted by Lance Shippey
Info if possible please.
Berlin SXF had a Postamt (post office) during
DDR years with 1189 Postcode, including a
telegram department. The U.K discontinued
telegrams in 1982. How was it possible for
telegrams sent from the SXF postamt in 1987
delivered by the GPO (British Post Office) to
a British address ?
Lance Shippey
Berlin SXF had a Postamt (post office) during
DDR years with 1189 Postcode, including a
telegram department. The U.K discontinued
telegrams in 1982. How was it possible for
telegrams sent from the SXF postamt in 1987
delivered by the GPO (British Post Office) to
a British address ?
Lance Shippey
I must have got one of the last telegrams at Easter 1982 (they stopped a few months later), sent by my office one Friday afternoon to my house in London to await me returning from holiday on a Sunday evening, telling me I was Ticket on Departure on the 8am Shuttle from Heathrow to Edinburgh on the Monday morning ... !
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5
Dear WHBM
Thanks or the info. Makes sense now. I received a couple of
telegrams in 1987 which were delivered to me by mail. The
telegram were on "Telecom" paper, and looked like a type of
telex transmission. One was sent by a friend working at SXF
regarding an arranged meeting we had on the exit of East
Berlin's Friedrichstrasse U-Bahn station. I would imagine
that all GDR sent telegrams would be handled by some
office of the Stasi. I was stopped after getting my visa at the
border, and asked for whom the bottle of whisky I had bought
at the Friedrichstrasse duty free stand was for,
The guard also wanted to know the name of the person I was
meeting. I refused and advise that it was none of his business.
I was allowed to exit, and met my friend.
The second telegram was from an East Berlin postal number
advising me that my friend was in Hohenschoenhausen prison
and interrogation centre, and being "Well treated". My friend
did not send this, but would appear that it was the work of the
Stasi. He was "Bought out" by the West German government
through "Freikauf" and the office of Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Vogel.
He now lives in West Berlin. He met his interrogator by chance
in the KaDeWe cigar shop in West Berlin, which resulted in him
having a nervous breakdown.
Lance Shippey
Thanks or the info. Makes sense now. I received a couple of
telegrams in 1987 which were delivered to me by mail. The
telegram were on "Telecom" paper, and looked like a type of
telex transmission. One was sent by a friend working at SXF
regarding an arranged meeting we had on the exit of East
Berlin's Friedrichstrasse U-Bahn station. I would imagine
that all GDR sent telegrams would be handled by some
office of the Stasi. I was stopped after getting my visa at the
border, and asked for whom the bottle of whisky I had bought
at the Friedrichstrasse duty free stand was for,
The guard also wanted to know the name of the person I was
meeting. I refused and advise that it was none of his business.
I was allowed to exit, and met my friend.
The second telegram was from an East Berlin postal number
advising me that my friend was in Hohenschoenhausen prison
and interrogation centre, and being "Well treated". My friend
did not send this, but would appear that it was the work of the
Stasi. He was "Bought out" by the West German government
through "Freikauf" and the office of Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Vogel.
He now lives in West Berlin. He met his interrogator by chance
in the KaDeWe cigar shop in West Berlin, which resulted in him
having a nervous breakdown.
Lance Shippey
