Early Boeing 747 Trivia

[Akrotiri bad boy]

I remember the Sunday evening PIA 747's departing MAN on 06 and clawing their way across the rooftops in Stockport. That was about five miles out after which the terrain started to steepen, I'm sure the GPWS must have been blaring as they dragged themselves over the higher ground around the outer marker. Not sure which powerplants were fitted but they didn't seem up to it.

[twb3]

TWA once upon a time (late 80s?) had a daily 747 service to Honolulu from St. Louis (STL-HNL) departing mid-day. Several times on the way to or from lunch saw this flight use just about all the runway and look like it barely cleared the traffic lights at Lindbergh Boulevard and Missouri Bottom Road just off the west side of the field.

[tdracer]

Back in the late 1990's/early 2000's, my office was across the street from Boeing Field in Seattle. It also directly under the flight path for SeaTac airport. Now, it was far enough from SeaTac that the aircraft were usually high enough as to not be too noisy or bothersome, but there were exceptions. The most notable exception was a Northwest 747 headed for Japan - when takeoff's were to the north, it would go over so low and so loud that it rattled the windows. I don't remember now if it was a daily or just several times per week - but I do remember it went over right about 2pm. Before long I just stopped looking out the window to see what was going on - if it suddenly got noisy and it was about 2pm, I knew it was Northwest...

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by Akrotiri bad boy

I remember the Sunday evening PIA 747's departing MAN on 06 and clawing their way across the rooftops in Stockport. That was about five miles out after which the terrain started to steepen, I'm sure the GPWS must have been blaring as they dragged themselves over the higher ground around the outer marker. Not sure which powerplants were fitted but they didn't seem up to it.

You may also recall some "interesting " departures in the same direction by Wardair.....I witnessed one that I recall caused some "consternation " ...cough ! to the residents of Didsbury, Burnage in particular .It would be fair to say the pax had a scenic tour of North Manchester heading for Oldham.

[BSD]

Turned up at Cardiff one fine day and as we taxied in to the terminal, a 747 (IIRC Wardair) was parked at a curious angle: Turning off or maybe on, to the stand ( on the runway side of the terminal down at the southern end) the wingtip had "entered" the terminal building. removing several panes of glass. The tough old bird was gone fairly soon after having I believe, made more work for the glaziers than the LAEs.

747 Wing-tip 1, Terminal 0.

[055166k]

12th January 1970, first day in new job in the cargo area at Heathrow...PAN AM 747 landed 10R. The world would never be the same.
Memories.....certainly remember the 5 engined Jumbos with underslung ferry engine....referred to by others
*Mate worked for TWA and said they had a long pole with rubber end to stop fan rotation on JT9Ds during start-up with strong tailwind.
*"ONTOS" the TWA Fairchild C-82A Packet used to ferry JT9Ds around Europe.
*The take-off noise...unique at the time...like pushing a length of wood through a rotating saw.

[treadigraph]

*Mate worked for TWA and said they had a long pole with rubber end to stop fan rotation on JT9Ds during start-up with strong tailwind.
*"ONTOS" the TWA Fairchild C-82A Packet used to ferry JT9Ds around Europe.

I believe Britannias required a member of ground crew to hold a prop blade if there was a strong tail wind during start up.

I'd love to have seen TWA's Packet!

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by treadigraph

I believe Britannias required a member of ground crew to hold a prop blade if there was a strong tail wind during start up.

Watching them start at Brize, it seemed to be sop for all starts with the RAF; the groundcrewman just leaned against the blade presumably until he felt it trying to move, then stepped away and it turned instantly..

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by chevvron

Watching them start at Brize, it seemed to be sop for all starts with the RAF; the groundcrewman just leaned against the blade presumably until he felt it trying to move, then stepped away and it turned instantly..

One of the advantages of a free turbine engine. Same principle as the PW120 on the ATR, which can run with the prop braked to act as an APU on the ground.

[PAXboy]

Thread drift
Interesting DRUK Can the ATR do that on either engine? Thus alternating engine wear during turns?

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by PAXboy

Can the ATR do that on either engine? Thus alternating engine wear during turns?

Range of similar size types can do this. A notable early problem was an inability to get the prop brake off again when ready to depart. Don't know if this was an engine or airframe manufacturer issue, as the Saab 340 seemed particularly so afflicted. Invariably the right engine, as pax board on the left.

Originally Posted by tdracer

The most notable exception was a Northwest 747 headed for Japan - when takeoff's were to the north, it would go over so low and so loud that it rattled the windows. I don't remember now if it was a daily or just several times per week - but I do remember it went over right about 2pm.

Sudden reminder here of the mid-1970s, earlier 747s, travelling south on Interstate 5 one early afternoon (again) quite some miles south of SeaTac, a Northwest 747 coming alongside which seemed to have just got to about 2,000 feet in a very slow climbout.

[ZFT]

Hotel mode is only available on No 2 on the ATR

[PAXboy]

'hotel mode' Is that the official name for the procedure?

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by PAXboy

'hotel mode' Is that the official name for the procedure?

Indeed it is.

[bean]

Dave Reid. The reason for holding the prop on the Britannia was that, because it was in fine pitch for start, the prop could actually start turning in the wrong direction!

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by PAXboy

'hotel mode' Is that the official name for the procedure?

Yes, it's originally a nautical expression, applied to ships in port where the engines were running to power ancillary services but not to provide propulsion.

Originally Posted by bean

Dave Reid. The reason for holding the prop on the Britannia was that, because it was in fine pitch for start, the prop could actually start turning in the wrong direction!

Thanks, I did wonder about the reason. My point was that it was only possible to do that because the Proteus was a free-turbine engine.

[Terry McCassey]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

All 747s, other than the -8, have the hard point under the left wing for the 5th pod.

AFAIK, that's the only "external load" that can be carried - the drop tank option didn't find favour with any customers.

The B747 freighters didn't carry the 5th pod - the 4 x 1/4 UNF thread inserts missing from the lower wing.

[JRFD]

I was a controller at Lyneham 1970-1972. We regularly got requests from London for 4000 ft over the top of Lyneham (Airway Green 1) due to slow climbing 747's! So 4000 at Woodley was pretty good!

[JRFD]

With reference to the slow climbig PIA out of Manchester, was that the one they left 20 tons of freight on by mistake?

[dixi188]

Originally Posted by bean

Dave Reid. The reason for holding the prop on the Britannia was that, because it was in fine pitch for start, the prop could actually start turning in the wrong direction!

Remember seeing this done on a Brit atbournemouth.
I think that when start was selected the first thing to happen was the blade angle changed from fully fine to a slightly courser pitch which would then cause the prop to revolve backwards with a tail wind.
I've held a PT6 prop with the engine running when we were trying to locate an oil leak. Held it before start and leaning shoulder against it.